Jump to content

Tournament Feedback


420 replies to this topic

#361 TK42Kahn

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • Phoenix Overlord
  • Phoenix Overlord
  • 80 posts

Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:48 AM

Some warning would be good.

I feel like if people had known there was going to be a tournament, like if you had put a message up on the launcher a week before hand or something and left it there so, we would have been more prepared.
Hot dropping a tournament to get the stats you want isnt the worse way to go about things but it certainly isnt the best.
This didnt feel like a tournament, it felt like a cheesefest of meta game mechanics. Like knowing there is no penalty for leaving a match, so when you die you quit match and launch ASAP because win/loss doesnt matter as much as games played.

Sync droppers and teamkillers. I know its not easy to fix, but these people are ruining the game for a lot of people who dont participate in their meta-game game. They make it frustratingly difficult to play casually, beta test effectively and often drastically reduce the fun for the whole community.

If this was an ELO stress-test of sorts, it was a good one. We all played until our eyes bled. We hope you have sufficient data to go further. However I believe whatever data you have is artificial. Once players understood the mechanics of your tournament, it came to light that it was in fact a grind-fest in high MMO style.
A game of who, "can get 2-3 kills per game and as many assists as possible in as many games as they can cram into in the allotted time frame?"
I feel like all that was accomplished (honestly with all respect and credit possible to the winners for the test of mettle you went through) was who was best at determining mediocrity.

Some people, myself included, wasted a number of hours playing extra careful, focusing on K/D ratio and stressing out when we lost games. Thinking that our win/loss ratio would have a dramatic effect on our tournament standings. It wasnt until I noticed leader board ranked players with negative win/loss ratio that I understood it wasnt actually a tournament of skill. But more a tournament of determination and how far an individual is willing to push themselves.

PGI...stop calling ducks swans.
Start making meta-game organization as obsolete as it needs to be for this game to be the kind of success you, and we, want it to be.
The longer your community HAS TO organize things like sync dropped tournaments outside of your control, the more it will become the expected standard when playing your game, the more frustrated gamers you will have about mismatched and lousy FEELING matchmaking. Especially when the only tournaments we get from you feel like masked data-mining.
Start hyping us up about legitimate in game events BEFORE they occur. So all those sync droppers have reasons to brush up on their PUG skills helping it form the norm.

Edited by TK42Kahn, 25 February 2013 - 10:51 AM.


#362 Mao of DC

    Member

  • Elite Founder
  • 558 posts
  • LocationTerra, Sol System

Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:49 AM

View PostCantatta, on 25 February 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:


Cheating would seem to be the only clear answer in my mind, account sharing & aimbots are the obvious culprits. No, I don't have proof for any of this, but the math doesn't lie. It is almost mathemtically impossible for an individual to play 1000+ games of MWO in 72hrs, for all intents an purposes.



I was ranked #38 overall 29,142 points, I did it with 309 games total. I did not cheat with bots OR stay up all 2.5 days either. I won't speak for others but you need to watch your all covering blanket statements there. After all haven't you ever heard the saying, "When you assume you make an a$$ out of u and me."

#363 Riffleman

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 968 posts

Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:53 AM

I would like to make an important point I think many have overlooked. And that is obsession. You cannot run tournaments for 3 days where most participation is a huge factor in winning, it is irresponsible as a company and a person. There are people out there, obsessed people, who lose all logic and reasoning when they desire some things badly enough. Is it your faults they dont play like a responsible human being, mostly no. But making unique one of a kind rewards for them to obsess over, then making the only chance they have to earn them a grueling 3 day grind can lead to alot of problems!

Seriously, aside from legal ramifications, how would the employees at PGI personally feel if tomorrows paper add read "exausted teen crashes car and dies after lack of sleep for 3 days competeing in a video game tournament"? Or "man develops blood clot or has heart attack from too much caffene and energy drinks trying to stay up for video game tournament".

A simple tournament where you compile players 25 best games or so would have been so much simpler. You would get people that played alot still, sure. But not nearly as long, since your not at your best exausted anyway. Please never do something like this again. You dont want something like someones death, even a tiny little bit, on your conciouses.

#364 ohtochooseaname

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 440 posts
  • LocationSan Jose, CA

Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:57 AM

View PostAri Dian, on 25 February 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:


A normal ELO system would solve all these stupid problems. Elo is not related to the number of matches you did. Just a pure factor how good you are. BUT you cant use an ELO system in 3 days. Its a long time value that will regulate itself over some time. Month or year.

But keeping this in mind i would have prefer a pure elo system over this one every time. The end result would have been nearly the same. Just a little bit shifted in the top player bracets.

But you can never ever make a pure adding up system and think this give some good results :).


An easy solution to make number of games not matter in the final outcome would be to base your score on your top 50-100 games (make it a cap). So, after, say, 100 games, you would experience a massive diminishing returns, and skill (based on nebulously designed point system) would define the top 25. This would, however, have the drawback that top players would drop out early if they thought they would not beat one of their minimum scores in that bracket.

#365 KKillian

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • Phoenix Overlord
  • Phoenix Overlord
  • 296 posts
  • LocationGeneva, IL

Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:01 AM

View PostRiffleman, on 25 February 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

I would like to make an important point I think many have overlooked. And that is obsession. You cannot run tournaments for 3 days where most participation is a huge factor in winning, it is irresponsible as a company and a person. There are people out there, obsessed people, who lose all logic and reasoning when they desire some things badly enough. Is it your faults they dont play like a responsible human being, mostly no. But making unique one of a kind rewards for them to obsess over, then making the only chance they have to earn them a grueling 3 day grind can lead to alot of problems!

Seriously, aside from legal ramifications, how would the employees at PGI personally feel if tomorrows paper add read "exausted teen crashes car and dies after lack of sleep for 3 days competeing in a video game tournament"? Or "man develops blood clot or has heart attack from too much caffene and energy drinks trying to stay up for video game tournament".

A simple tournament where you compile players 25 best games or so would have been so much simpler. You would get people that played alot still, sure. But not nearly as long, since your not at your best exausted anyway. Please never do something like this again. You dont want something like someones death, even a tiny little bit, on your conciouses.


I'd like to reinforce the "not at your best exhausted" statement, all of us that put in over 300 games were a bit looney on the last day, all these people bashing player skills based on what they saw of us on sunday after 3 days of mindless grinding really need to drop with me when I am fresh. Lets 1on1 and see what they have to say afterwards.

Ontop of that, you think the people that put in that many legitimate games without account shareing or overlapping/suicide rushing deserve ridicule? We did not set the terms of this tournament, PGI did, please refrain from slamming our efforts as many of us did our best with the time allocated.

#366 Strongpaw

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • The Devoted
  • The Devoted
  • 91 posts
  • LocationSouth of Montreal

Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:01 AM

Insanity... 504 matches later a weekend with little food and 4 and 6 hours of passing out and 10 hours of unconsciousness after.

Feedback ;

For future tournament purposes Alpine peaks and other future Huge maps should be removved from the cycle it penalised everyone who got them with 10 minutes of 'Are we there yet' We are playing Mechwarrior not climb everest on a sightseeing tour -.- A special tournament Map only for the tournament players for the duration would be appreciated :)

Matchmaker needs work, I got tossed into a river city match last night where it gave the opposite team 8 players and our team 4 and only 4 people, no disconects, we fought... we got slaughtered... yeah...

Please review the statistics for the matches and remove the cheaters. They will be easy to find. High kill counts, very little damage done to mechs and lots of magically dissapearing heads of enemy mechs without any other damage to the mech.

Also sync drops need to be adressed I face off against alot of ungrouped groups that were in the tourney but were always almost together... No idea on a suggestion to fix that, sorry.

Also for future tournament style play lance vs lance only 4v4, would make match search faster?

multiple players on the same acount. I played as hard as humanly possible over the tournament and got 504 matches and 59th overall. If there are any at 700+ matches i would look into those.

Ok not fully recovered yet, will post again when I can organise my thoughts, maybe a shorter tournament or broken into daily tourneys so people who work a day on the weekend dont get penalised fr the next one? Thanks.

#367 DocBach

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • Phoenix Overlord
  • Phoenix Overlord
  • 4,775 posts
  • LocationSouthern Oregon

Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:01 AM

View PostMao of DC, on 25 February 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:


I was ranked #38 overall 29,142 points, I did it with 309 games total. I did not cheat with bots OR stay up all 2.5 days either. I won't speak for others but you need to watch your all covering blanket statements there. After all haven't you ever heard the saying, "When you assume you make an a$$ out of u and me."


there was no bots or sharing of accounts on the leaderboards or sync dropping (everyone wanted to get as many matches as possible and we dropped as soon as we could, who wants to wait to sync stuff when you get dropped with the other leaderboard members anyways?), there were just exhausted players giggling about nonsence like poopsocks and the endangered Ursus Caelum which hunts in the wastelands of the alpine at 3am in the morning.

#368 silentD11

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • 816 posts
  • LocationWashington DC

Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:10 AM

View PostRiffleman, on 25 February 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

I would like to make an important point I think many have overlooked. And that is obsession. You cannot run tournaments for 3 days where most participation is a huge factor in winning, it is irresponsible as a company and a person. There are people out there, obsessed people, who lose all logic and reasoning when they desire some things badly enough. Is it your faults they dont play like a responsible human being, mostly no. But making unique one of a kind rewards for them to obsess over, then making the only chance they have to earn them a grueling 3 day grind can lead to alot of problems!

Seriously, aside from legal ramifications, how would the employees at PGI personally feel if tomorrows paper add read "exausted teen crashes car and dies after lack of sleep for 3 days competeing in a video game tournament"? Or "man develops blood clot or has heart attack from too much caffene and energy drinks trying to stay up for video game tournament".

A simple tournament where you compile players 25 best games or so would have been so much simpler. You would get people that played alot still, sure. But not nearly as long, since your not at your best exausted anyway. Please never do something like this again. You dont want something like someones death, even a tiny little bit, on your conciouses.


Happens to people in WOW, Starcraft, Everquest, all the time. Gaming is hazardous to your health. Plus if anyone is daft enough to blow up their heart on Ramen noodles and Red Bull I'd write that off as Darwin at work.

#369 Mr 144

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,775 posts
  • LocationWisconsin

Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:16 AM

View PostKKillian, on 25 February 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:


I'd like to reinforce the "not at your best exhausted" statement, all of us that put in over 300 games were a bit looney on the last day, all these people bashing player skills based on what they saw of us on sunday after 3 days of mindless grinding really need to drop with me when I am fresh. Lets 1on1 and see what they have to say afterwards.

Ontop of that, you think the people that put in that many legitimate games without account shareing or overlapping/suicide rushing deserve ridicule? We did not set the terms of this tournament, PGI did, please refrain from slamming our efforts as many of us did our best with the time allocated.


I'll reinforce that too...It was a crap-shoot for me..either I was OMG uber-awesomesauce, or horribad. Depended entirely on nothing from what I could tell...just the grind. In 'normal' play, if I was fealing antsy, I would take five...then launch. For the tourney however, I'd just launch and go through the motions at times.

And I think we were more than just a bit looney..lol There were matches at the end I'd be staring at someones paint job and forget I'm s'pose to be killing them...stopping mid-brawl to txt chat...tons of crazy stuff...That's what made it fun for me.

I can't stress enough how friendly the leaderboarders were in game. You'd think everyone would be cranky with the grind, but it turned out just the opposite. It was the first time this actually fealt like a real community to me, and I liked it :)

Mr 144

#370 Riffleman

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 968 posts

Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:25 AM

View PostsilentD11, on 25 February 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:


Happens to people in WOW, Starcraft, Everquest, all the time. Gaming is hazardous to your health. Plus if anyone is daft enough to blow up their heart on Ramen noodles and Red Bull I'd write that off as Darwin at work.


what about their mom, dad, brothers, sisters, children spouses who are now paying for darwins rule?

#371 Mao of DC

    Member

  • Elite Founder
  • 558 posts
  • LocationTerra, Sol System

Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:27 AM

View PostDocBach, on 25 February 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:


there was no bots or sharing of accounts on the leaderboards or sync dropping (everyone wanted to get as many matches as possible and we dropped as soon as we could, who wants to wait to sync stuff when you get dropped with the other leaderboard members anyways?), there were just exhausted players giggling about nonsence like poopsocks and the endangered Ursus Caelum which hunts in the wastelands of the alpine at 3am in the morning.



Damn Space Bears are everywhere on that map. They are so well comouflaged they could be right next to and you wouldn't know untill you hear ROAR!!! and get mauled to death. I hear there are Leo Caelum roaming Caustic Valley. I also saw a Jenner get eatten by a Tigris Caelum on Forest Colony. Beware the deadly dangerous species of Space Fauna. They exist and they are out to get you. You have been warned!


Yes, we got a little silly last night good times though.

Edited by Mao of DC, 25 February 2013 - 11:28 AM.


#372 Ryken

    Member

  • Veteran Founder
  • 23 posts

Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:29 AM

View PostMr 144, on 25 February 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:


I'll reinforce that too...It was a crap-shoot for me..either I was OMG uber-awesomesauce, or horribad. Depended entirely on nothing from what I could tell...just the grind. In 'normal' play, if I was fealing antsy, I would take five...then launch. For the tourney however, I'd just launch and go through the motions at times.

And I think we were more than just a bit looney..lol There were matches at the end I'd be staring at someones paint job and forget I'm s'pose to be killing them...stopping mid-brawl to txt chat...tons of crazy stuff...That's what made it fun for me.

I can't stress enough how friendly the leaderboarders were in game. You'd think everyone would be cranky with the grind, but it turned out just the opposite. It was the first time this actually fealt like a real community to me, and I liked it :)

Mr 144


I agree completely. It was the most fun I've had since I started playing this game and I got that feeling from alot of the people I played with.

#373 KKillian

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • Phoenix Overlord
  • Phoenix Overlord
  • 296 posts
  • LocationGeneva, IL

Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:29 AM

Also closely watching the boards as I played I would put big dollar amounts in betting that one of the top heavies was most definetly account shareing at least with a roommate, said person dropped at least 25 times with me, 50% of those times it was played accurately and smoothly, the other 50% it would suicide rush and disco/drop within the first 2-3 min of the match, never log off and then magically start doing very well again as if it had slept and was fresh. A few of us on that particular board collaborated and all have the same suspicions. Call me crazy but I play terribly when I am sleep deprived, 8 hours makes a world of difference and this is why I slept, with hope that actual skill was involved in some way beyond mounting a tag las on every mech just to pad stats which I thought about but did not do as I wanted my rank based on my piloting and not my ability to exploit a number system.

Anyway I'm sure the stats will reveal any obvious discrepansies and aside from people exploiting the system I can honestly say I didnt see a single aimbot all weekend, I saw one obvious one a few weeks ago where the guy actually cockpit shot 7 people in a 15-20 second period all point blank, one of them being a teammate standing near an enemy that had just died... it was actually hilarious he whipped sideways and just blasted the guy outta nowhere. I dont think the current script deciphers enemy from teammate.. all these calls of aimbots I can tell you firsthand it is not a big issue in this community and the fact that most high damage weapons have a traveling projectile, aimbots cannot anticipate where the enemy is GOING to be, same reason aimbots for tf2 only work for the sniper and not the classes with missles/grenades, they simply cannot anticipate enemy movement and are not an issue in this game from what I have seen.

I HAVE seen a LOT of bad ping lights, they bounce all over the damn place and are almost impossible to hit, majority of my hits vs them are leading the target and educated guessing of where it MIGHT be, a high ping should NOT be an advantage for a player, but a disadvantage, yes it sucks if you have a bad ping but really if you want to spend giant amounts of time in an online game go get a decent connection or move near an area that supports it, it should not be detrimental to players that upkeep their good connections.

A good way to decipher who actually has a terrible ping and who is intentionally throttleing is to check their pings on the website here, all the servers for the forums and game servers seem to go up and down at the same time, if they are in unrelated locations I'm wrong but I'm sure the pings to both would be similar if so?

Edited by KKillian, 25 February 2013 - 11:53 AM.


#374 Mr 144

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,775 posts
  • LocationWisconsin

Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:30 AM

View PostRiffleman, on 25 February 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:


what about their mom, dad, brothers, sisters, children spouses who are now paying for darwins rule?


I had a support crew to make sure that didn't happen. My loving wife and kids supported me throughout...made sure I walked around at least once an hour (suprisingly easy to NOT do)...kept me hydrated, and fed me vodka when they knew I needed a break. I'm an old man (in gaming terms) and there's no way I could of done it without the loving support of my family.

Mr 144

#375 Riffleman

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 968 posts

Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:43 AM

View PostMr 144, on 25 February 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:


I had a support crew to make sure that didn't happen. My loving wife and kids supported me throughout...made sure I walked around at least once an hour (suprisingly easy to NOT do)...kept me hydrated, and fed me vodka when they knew I needed a break. I'm an old man (in gaming terms) and there's no way I could of done it without the loving support of my family.

Mr 144


This is just a point made to protect those people that need protection from themselves. Its a real sickness, as real as alcoholism, gambling, or drug use. They all stem from obsession. And enabling a 3 day tournament to me at least seems a bit reckless.

#376 Mechwarrior4hire

    Rookie

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:25 PM

I met some really good players and made a lot of progress leveling up my Ravens, so thanks to all who took part, I had good fun even if it was a bit of a blur towards the end. Ha.

#377 RussianWolf

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • The Ironclad
  • The Ironclad
  • 1,084 posts
  • LocationWV

Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:39 PM

View PostRiffleman, on 25 February 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:


what about their mom, dad, brothers, sisters, children spouses who are now paying for darwins rule?


Guess we should make casinos responsible for gambling addicts too huh? I can walk away from the tables after blowing $200 with no problem, if you can't that's your problem.

#378 KKillian

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • Phoenix Overlord
  • Phoenix Overlord
  • 296 posts
  • LocationGeneva, IL

Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:47 PM

View PostRussianWolf, on 25 February 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:


Guess we should make casinos responsible for gambling addicts too huh? I can walk away from the tables after blowing $200 with no problem, if you can't that's your problem.


The casino wont even let you in if your drunk or in an odd state, let alone host a 72 hour endurance slot machine grind competition, they would know better, thats a lawsuit waiting to happen.

#379 RussianWolf

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • The Ironclad
  • The Ironclad
  • 1,084 posts
  • LocationWV

Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:58 PM

View PostKKillian, on 25 February 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:


The casino wont even let you in if your drunk or in an odd state, let alone host a 72 hour endurance slot machine grind competition, they would know better, thats a lawsuit waiting to happen.

casinos feed you free drinks and pipe in extra O2 to keep you feeling good. try again.

most don't have windows so they control the lights and you can't keep track of time.

Edited by RussianWolf, 25 February 2013 - 12:59 PM.


#380 Geist Null

    Member

  • Veteran Founder
  • Phoenix Storm
  • Phoenix Storm
  • 2,191 posts
  • LocationNE PA USA

Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:01 PM

glad some of you had fun, however a different system needs to be used for next time, the tourney brought out the cheesiest of builds the entire weekend and players went so long without rest they performed at their worst most of the time. plus quite a few were so cranky even I started to lose the usually friendly mood.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users