91 replies to this topic

[Iron Harlequin]

What happened to people using their eyes, and situational awareness, or have we become that lazy?

[Iron Horse]

Orion Pirate, on 29 May 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

I think only the Scout class will have access to these modules in their tech trees. Considering you have to pay for the modules to use them, and they only can be used in one mech if I remember correctly, the usage will be limited.

I for one look forward to it, makes playing the scout class a little more fun!

*One 'mech at a time...

Beazle, on 29 May 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

being able to detect a mech through a building, and being able to shoot it are 2 different things.

Agreed. I remember one of the devs mentioning something about no destructible environments. I hope this doesn't include buildings and trees, however.

Also, in the fiction, 'mechs would display hotter the more damaged they are. I'm not sure if I would enjoy this in gameplay or not, but it would be a cool nod to the BTU.

[Beazle]

Iron Harlequin, on 29 May 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

What happened to people using their eyes, and situational awareness, or have we become that lazy?

I wish i was telekinetic so i could get a fresh cup of coffee without leaving my chair. Does that answer your question?

[Iron Harlequin]

Beazle, on 29 May 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

I wish i was telekinetic so i could get a fresh cup of coffee without leaving my chair. Does that answer your question?

So people are just that lazy and unskilled.....

[EyeOne]

Aelos03, on 29 May 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

So i have to pray that someone miss took giant multi ton mech for some metallic rocks (cmon they will be able to see mech silhouette)

I see this visions as abomination that can ruin game on so many ways killing tactics and other fun stuff whats the point in seeing everything
and thats for assault/defensive tree O.o so we can see Atlas scout urban area with this thing who needs scout anyway.




here where ?

A few rocks sure but if the whole area is magnetic then it's useless. Just the way I understand it in the books. It's magnetometer not a mechometer.

Yeah, I'm sure a giant steel building wouldn't affect it at all...

[Rufus Ingram]

My understanding is that you're not limited to only using modules from one skill tree at a time on a given mech so scouts can have all of them if they really want to and have the space. Of course, an Atlas can have zoom too...

[Redshift2k5]

Iron Harlequin, on 29 May 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

What happened to people using their eyes, and situational awareness, or have we become that lazy?

Thermal and magnetic vision are for when your enemy or the environment are limiting your ability to use normal vision. Behind buildings, obscured by weather effects, etc.

[Cale MacKenna]

If you look at the Battletech line as it was before many of the games, even in the novels and such, Magnometer is useless in cities due to the structures. On top of this, in areas where there is a high concentration of metals will give false readings as it is picking up the deposits within the area. The first and formost method is to use your Mark I A-1 (your EYES) and then rely on your sensors.

[Dorado]

Aelos03, on 29 May 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

I see this visions as abomination that can ruin game on so many ways killing tactics and other fun stuff whats the point in seeing everything
and thats for assault/defensive tree O.o so we can see Atlas scout urban area with this thing who needs scout anyway.

First... you are sitting atop a fusion reactor... it puts off a wee bit of heat. Second... you are riding atop a metal giant bigger than the size of your average building and multi-stories tall. In the time period that the game takes place in, it is perfectly acceptable that both thermal and magnetic resonance scanning is available and would easily be able to detect things such as giant metal mechs that have a miniature sun in their center torso within a certain range. Also, if you know your Battletech lore, these technologies have been in the game since the beginning. If the devs had not implemented it in the game in some fashion I would have been disappointed.

Another technology that I have not seen mentioned is seismic scanning, which was also a detection technology in the BTU. Perhaps it is meant to be a part of those deployable detection devices that was mentioned and the tech used wasn't specified.

If you feel that these abilities should not be in the game and are an abomination, perhaps Battletech is not the game for you friend. I have the complete opposite opinion and believe that the ability to detect a foe with something other than just visual will enhance tactics.

[Aelos03]

EyeOne, on 29 May 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

A few rocks sure but if the whole area is magnetic then it's useless. Just the way I understand it in the books. It's magnetometer not a mechometer.

Yeah, I'm sure a giant steel building wouldn't affect it at all...

like you wont see moving metal

Beazle, on 29 May 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

Except for the minor problem of walls possibly being able to stop things like lasers and missles......

This isn't CoD where your shooting through a thin building wall. If you see somebody with magno in an urban area it will most likely be through an entire BUILDING, and, believe it or not, buildings do sometimes stop weapons fire.

I never said you will shoot trough wall but you will know its there and that mean no surprises and no one will be able to approach you without you knowing its like easy mod, scouts wont be able to run around building and stuff to approach from behind because moment they appear guns will be there waiting. I think we all like to round around trying to out think our opponents and this will remove it completely.

So there will be no way to know if i'm spotted or not ?

[Redshift2k5]

Aelos03, on 29 May 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

like you wont see moving metal




I never said you will shoot trough wall but you will know its there and that mean no surprises and no one will be able to approach you without you knowing its like easy mod, scouts wont be able to run around building and stuff to approach from behind because moment they appear guns will be there waiting. I think we all like to round around trying to out think our opponents and this will remove it completely.

So there will be no way to know if i'm spotted or not ?

Even without magnetic or thermal vision any mechs in close range, whether behind a building or not, will show up on your radar and minimap. You cannot rely only on staying out of line of sight to avoid detection in Mechwarrior.

If they are already appearing on your radar screen, giving you a visual signal with your magnetic or thermal vision is only a small improvement. Even without them, the enemy will already know where you are because of the radar.

[Dorado]

Aelos03, on 29 May 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

I never said you will shoot trough wall but you will know its there and that mean no surprises and no one will be able to approach you without you knowing its like easy mod, scouts wont be able to run around building and stuff to approach from behind because moment they appear guns will be there waiting. I think we all like to round around trying to out think our opponents and this will remove it completely.

I keep reading your responses and all I see is, I want to play a scout mech like I'm a rogue or an assassin. At a minimum, you are in a twenty ton giant robot. I think there is a flaw in your perception of what a scout/light class mech is and what tactics are required to be successful in that role.

Aelos03, on 29 May 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

So there will be no way to know if i'm spotted or not ?

That's easy... you will know if you are spotted when the assault mechs you are trying to backstab turn around and core out your cockpit. A scout mech is not a rogue it is a -scout-. The assumption is that you will have tech in your ride that will allow you to do this job effectively without having to be on the other side of a building to do it or sneak up behind the big atlas. In an urban environment, you would use your mobility to evade (and perhaps jump jets). Move like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

[Sprouticus]

to my knowledge, alternate vision structure (and other modules) have not even been implemented yet, so it would be very hard to say they were OP, or even a concern.

[Aelos03]

Redshift2k5, on 29 May 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Even without magnetic or thermal vision any mechs in close range, whether behind a building or not, will show up on your radar and minimap. You cannot rely only on staying out of line of sight to avoid detection in Mechwarrior.

If they are already appearing on your radar screen, giving you a visual signal with your magnetic or thermal vision is only a small improvement. Even without them, the enemy will already know where you are because of the radar.

Radars are also LOSD so you need to see target to detect it so only thing you need to do is move out of line of sight and you are out thats it, thats what dev blog says about it.

[Cruxshadow]

Sounds like great modules for a scout mech. Since we can put MAD sensor into helos now a days why not in 3049? A RVN-3L raven with a MAD and thermal system hunting down and spotting for a Catapult.

[Redshift2k5]

Aelos03, on 29 May 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

Radars are also LOSD so you need to see target to detect it so only thing you need to do is move out of line of sight and you are out thats it, thats what dev blog says about it.

We don't know exactly how the radar works in MWO yet. In this screenshot we can clearly see mechs on the radar that are not in LOS (and even one with a targeting square, I expect he was, mere seconds ago, in LoS but has since moved behind the pillar)

Edited by Redshift2k5, 29 May 2012 - 11:13 AM.

[Beazle]

This is a game of movement, not stealth.

This is not a game that will cater to campers who want to hide out in towns waiting for somebody to walk into their line of fire.

If you sit and wait for a scout to walk out from behind a building your probably already going to get hit with indirect fire LRMs. If you can see him, he can probably see you.

If a scout stands still behind a building for any length of time, he's most likely either stupid, or AFK.

It's stick and move, speed is armor.

[Aelos03]

Redshift2k5, on 29 May 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

We don't know exactly how the radar works in MWO yet. In this screenshot we can clearly see mechs on the radar that are not in LOS (and even one with a targeting square)

yes but other mech need to spot it so you can get that info but if no one have it in LOS it wont be shown like that,

from dev blog:

Direct – You can see the target directly (LOSD).
Radar – Your radar can detect a target in a predetermined arc, also LOSD.

Edited by Aelos03, 29 May 2012 - 11:16 AM.

[Gigaton]

Iron Harlequin, on 29 May 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

What happened to people using their eyes, and situational awareness, or have we become that lazy?

We are just following what the Army is doing, that's all. Everything is better (and more effective) with TIS.

Can't wait to pwn poor blind noobies who didn't fit thermal module on their 'mechs on foggy/nighttime/sandstorm/whatever maps.

Edited by Gigaton, 29 May 2012 - 11:20 AM.

[Aelos03]

Dorado, on 29 May 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

I keep reading your responses and all I see is, I want to play a scout mech like I'm a rogue or an assassin. At a minimum, you are in a twenty ton giant robot. I think there is a flaw in your perception of what a scout/light class mech is and what tactics are required to be successful in that role.





That's easy... you will know if you are spotted when the assault mechs you are trying to backstab turn around and core out your cockpit. A scout mech is not a rogue it is a -scout-. The assumption is that you will have tech in your ride that will allow you to do this job effectively without having to be on the other side of a building to do it or sneak up behind the big atlas. In an urban environment, you would use your mobility to evade (and perhaps jump jets). Move like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Well i will most likely drive all kinds of mechs not just light but i sure wont play like assassin or what ever you said but thing is i'm wried how useful they will be if assault/heavis can mount this "visions" it won't help role warfare.