195 replies to this topic

[Manthony Higgs]

Med Mechs are capable of doing pretty much anything. Hunchbacks can get right in and mess dudes up, while Cicadas can speed around and Harass/Distract/Scout.

[CloudCobra]

LakeDaemon, on 29 May 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

What a troll question. Cant believe you guys are falling for this.

Wasn't trolling i happen to like medium mechs if you read my post it wasnt about the idea of medium mechs in the cannon or in general it was the slower mechs that are in the game i really wanted to know why i should take a medium mech that only does 64kph when i can take a heavy and get the same speed with more guns and armor.

[Klelith]

merz, on 29 May 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

I'd really hate to see the match-maker be the only thing keeping it from twinkie assault fest.. But until a developer says something to the contrary, its a reasonable bet, however lazy that may be.

I agree. I hope they can find a way to make all mechs viable, even if it means bending the table top rules a bit.

[Pvt Dancer]

I created a post about this in the past about the matchmaker subject.

Concensus was a combo of Tonnage and BV... go 650-ish tons per side (Average is 60-ish tons per mech) with a equal BV and there should not be a problem. I shot for higher than a 50 ton average because there are so few 20 ton mechs that are not Unseen that may or may not make it into the game.

[Klelith]

Pvt Dancer, on 29 May 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

I created a post about this in the past about the matchmaker subject.

Concensus was a combo of Tonnage and BV... go 650-ish tons per side (Average is 60-ish tons per mech) with a equal BV and there should not be a problem. I shot for higher than a 50 ton average because there are so few 20 ton mechs that are not Unseen that may or may not make it into the game.

The problem I could see with this is that you wouldn't want to pilot the lighter mechs. Even with matchmade tonnage/BV teams, the lighter mech will just get torn apart too quickly and be useless.

[merz]

combine this with a grind system where you have to force your way through piloting mechs you do not care for in order to get to the endgame high-tiers, and you end up with an apparently-profitable (hello wargaming!) sewage of misery that just begs your playerbase to throw money at you just to get past the tedium.

my apologies for sounding the bitter vet in a game that is nowhere near its release..

Edited by merz, 29 May 2012 - 08:48 PM.

[Vashts1985]

the way i see it is meds are light meds and heavys are heavy meds and assualt are heavy.

meds would be used for flanking and hit and run tactics, heavys would be damage dealers, and assault would be brawlers.

[Mad Pig]

What is the point of a Medium class mech? In my opoinkion... the answer is money - cold hard C-bills.

Cash is going to be a factor - that's the MO I'm taking pending the start of full on mech rage in July.

Regardless of class you're first going to have to buy it... and then you're going to want to upgrade it to be more effective. When you get damaged in battle, you're going to have to repair and keep a healthy stock of ammunition on hand. As the tonnage goes up so too will the C-bill cost rise to keep you fully operational. You gotta earn those C-bills to spend them. End up on the wrong side of the W-L column with your Assault one too many times and I imagine you're going to be finding yourself hurting to stay fully operational.

As with all things, even in the 31st century, the answer is money. When the C-bills are tight and your credit card is maxed you're gonna looooooove those medium mechs for the reasons listed in the prior posts.

May your slop be golden.

[SuckyJack]

Klelith, on 29 May 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

The problem I could see with this is that you wouldn't want to pilot the lighter mechs. Even with matchmade tonnage/BV teams, the lighter mech will just get torn apart too quickly and be useless.

This happened in previous MW games for three basic reasons. The abundance of Clan Tech allowing excessive boating. The mechanics of instant fire, instant lock, instant hit, instant damage weapons that were pinpoint accurate. And finally the failure in design of the maps and mechs to give lighter mechs meaningful mobility and the maps to have that mobility have an impact.

Far too many games came down to open fields where long range standoff weapons, GS, ERLLAS and ERPPCs fired off at one another from massive walking gunboats.

[PinTBC]

I'm really hoping that the developers make the costs highly advantageous to running mediums versus heavies, and heavies versus Assaults.

In Canon, they used mediums because it was much cheaper to buy one, and much cheaper to repair that mech when damaged. An Atlas doesn't help you on a planet if you can't keep it repaired.

[SuckyJack]

PinTBC, on 29 May 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

I'm really hoping that the developers make the costs highly advantageous to running mediums versus heavies, and heavies versus Assaults.

In Canon, they used mediums because it was much cheaper to buy one, and much cheaper to repair that mech when damaged. An Atlas doesn't help you on a planet if you can't keep it repaired.

I hope they don't as using economics to balance gameplay tosses balance out the window. I've posted about it before, but to keep it short: For economics to balance out the impact of certain items in gameplay terms you will first have to admit that those items are clearly superior, so you've failed at basic balance concepts. Then you are creating situations where players are in lesser mechs grinding for time in their god mechs facing down other players that are in their god mechs. The game takes steps away from a skill based design model and steps toward system built to maximize a pay2win format like WoT.

[Orion Pirate]

Speed, armor, weapons.

Really, all the mechs are just how much BV or Tonnage does your lance have to work with, and make a team that works well with that limitation. All mechs have a role when there are limitations to what you can field.

Now... How that will play out in MWO remains to be seen... Medium mechs are very viable, as much as any other class, until someone says there are no limitations to what you can deploy. For MWO, the limitations in place are mech availability (11 currently) and cost.

I can think of a couple Medium mechs I would love to pilot...

[Pvt Dancer]

Klelith, on 29 May 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

The problem I could see with this is that you wouldn't want to pilot the lighter mechs. Even with matchmade tonnage/BV teams, the lighter mech will just get torn apart too quickly and be useless.

You do know that there is double armor and no damage transfer, right? If someone is dumb with a Light, much less any other mech, they will get destroyed. Use your speed, don't stop to stand toe-to toe with a Heavy or Assault, and know your role. Lights with Scouts Mods will actually be incredibilily important to the game. I could not see playing the game without at least 2 Lights per side.

[Kartr]

Not in beta (how I wish I was!) but I've been keeping an ear open the seedy bars and back alleys of the internet and rumor has it that the Hunchback can get it's AC/20 on target quicker than the Atlas can get it's AC/20 on target. Not sure exactly what this means, but I'm guessing that it has something to do with convergence and probably it's torso-twist and agility like Paul hinted at.

That would make the Mediums very interesting if they can converge and fire faster than equivalent Heavies and Assaults. Would really let them hunt and play smart using hit and fade tactics especially since they should be faster.

[Forscythe]

Medium mechs will be there for when the mission parameter calls for a medium mech or less to fill that spot.

[momaw]

Something that has always made me a little sad in battletech is that speed and mobility are tactical rather than strategic. Strategic mobility is never really considered. Faster mechs, and mechs with jump jets, should simply be able to get around easier. If you're a military commander with a horde of different mechs at point A, and word comes down the line that you need to defend point B against an enemy arriving in three hours, what are you going to do? Send your biggest and meanest mechs because those are the ones that have the greatest firepower? No. Because they are slow. By the time they get to the area, all that will be left is a pile of rubble. You send your medium mechs, who are fast enough to get to the objective first and powerful enough to deter a casual assault.

As such, it would be very interesting if a team with more light and medium mechs gets to choose the starting locations, time of day, weather conditions, or even which map to play on. Say, that's a nice lance of Atlases you've got there! Let's play on an urban map where your big mechs can hardly turn and our little fast ones can vanish around a corner any time you look at us.

What you lose in firepower and armor, you gain in strategic initiative. Or at least that's the way it seems to me things ought to work.

[Hardac]

If mediums are the middle of the road workhorses able to fill any role...then why bring a light, heavy or assault?

[Victor MacGregor]

In the immortal words of Donald Sutherland from Kelly's Heroes;
"You see, man, we feel like we can get out of trouble quicker then we got into it."

The medium can bring in serious weaponry to a fight, get in quick, add their firepower at a critical moment, and then draw the enemies attention by running away.Even though it is not a bruiser like the typical heavy, a medium can take damage if it needs to.

[Alfred VonGunn]

I for one am hoping that as it moves along the Battles will be semi-controlled.. Ie 12v12 max tonage in battle say 900 tons per side.. So if you don;t have some nice balanced Lances someone is going in with less then 12 mechs.. Just so it doesn't become an Assault/Heavy fest..

Hell I would love to see a set number of battles for each planet be liminted to Med and light companies.. Because the Battletech UNiverse is not all Assaults and Heavies.

[NARCoMAN]

I hope it doesn't mean that assaults, heavies, and lights get a little gimped in favor of the majority being mediums.