125 replies to this topic

[Alizabeth Aijou]

Quote

Playing around with the dragon today I agree. It felt weak compared to the rest of the Mechs that were on the field. And the Ultra AC5 plus med Laser just didn't pack the punch I would hope for

That's the problem - you use a class-5 AC.
Says nothing about the chassis, and everything about the "main gun".

[AceTimberwolf]

Alizabeth Aijou, on 06 June 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

That's the problem - you use a class-5 AC.
Says nothing about the chassis, and everything about the "main gun".

True as I really didn't get to mess around with the mech lab. Kinda wish they would have let me to see if the dragon could have been better but As it stands now I probably won't use one. Hopefully that changes

[Furniture]

If the autocannon variant doesn't do it for you, look forward to the Grand Dragon variant, a 60 ton heavy that is equal in speed to the Raven and the Commando, but is armed with an ER PPC, an LRM 10 for indirect support, and 3 medium lasers. If that one isn't in the game yet, then try the first PPC variant, the DRG-1G. The 1G is similar, with the same speed as the normal Dragon, but armed with a standard PPC, an LRM 10, and 3 medium lasers.

Really, the Dragon is one of the most well-rounded designs in the lineup right now. It is the fastest mech that isn't a scout, has good armor, and a well rounded weapons loadout. The PPC variants tend to run hot, but offer terrific firepower. The Autocannon variants have less firepower, but run cold as ice. It's not a problem with the design so much as how well the pilot can take advantage of its strengths and compensate for its weaknesses. Just like any other design. If you can't make the Dragon work for you, then you should probably start looking to the Assault mechs or the slower heavies, which might be a better fit for you since they have more firepower. Some people are just brawlers at heart. Nothing wrong with it.

The Dragon just isn't a good brawler since we don't have melee combat yet, where we can use its terrific left fist to pummel enemies like it does in the fluff. As it stands, we are better off thinking of the Dragon as a rich man's medium, and a primarily long range, mobile support unit that is fast enough to intercept enemy scouts trying to sneak past to cap bases. It's not something you can use for standup fights against Hunchbacks at close range, or Atlases at any range alone.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

AceTimberwolf, on 06 June 2012 - 06:23 AM, said:

True as I really didn't get to mess around with the mech lab. Kinda wish they would have let me to see if the dragon could have been better but As it stands now I probably won't use one. Hopefully that changes

Guess I don't miss much then, though.
Also, what about that NDA?

[OberSchutze]

@Soviet Alex

They aren't putting the Grasshopper in the game? That's crazy.

[Trogusaur]

To OP: It's a balanced harasser meant to engage and disengage repeatedly. It seems to lack some punch, but you'll be hard pressed to bring it down, too. A good Dragon pilot will likely end up being the last man standing on a losing team, and maybe even turn the tide to a W.

On another note, I don't think this design is lacking anything. People nowadays are too impatient to strap in and play attrition with a defensive playstyle. Look at other popular FPS games, and you will kill, die, and respawn within 10 seconds of playing. I think a 'mech like the Dragon is a perfect countermeasure against making MWO into an ADD 12-yo's paradise.

Edited by Lord Trogus, 06 June 2012 - 02:04 PM.

[Exploding Boy]

I think when your slow, over-gunned, under-ammo'd, under-armored assault mech is being bombarded by enemy mechs, you'll be happy when your lancemate rolls up in his/her Dragon and covers your retreat.

I think it does have its place.

[Soviet Alex]

OberSchutze, on 06 June 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

@Soviet Alex

They aren't putting the Grasshopper in the game? That's crazy.

It isn't in yet, although I hope it does appear. It's best to be play it safe & plan on what we know we'll have when Open Beta arrives (July?). Happy Mech-Labbing!

[Furniture]

Alizabeth Aijou, on 06 June 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

Guess I don't miss much then, though.
Also, what about that NDA?

He was playing it at E3, at the public computers. There's no NDA for getting to play the public E3 demos there, as far as I know.

[Dreden Aelnir]

It's the M4 Sherman of the DCMS. It may suck firepower wise but there are a lot of them and they are fast...

[KageRyuu]

Quentin Yatoki, on 01 June 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

I imagine the Dragon will make a better brawler then people think. It's fast and has a lot of armor. As long as it has a fast enough torso twist and maneuverability, a Dragon is going to be able close the range with Assaults and then run circles around them with out them being able to twist their torsos fast enough.

I do this all the time in WoT with my mediums to heavy tanks. I have a M4A3E2, use my front armor to deflect their fire as I charge them, and then just circle them and shoot them with near impunity. I imagine the Dragon will be quite effective at this.

Except given the fact that to counter such disgusting tactics the designers have pretty much decided that a good amount of each map will be dedicated to urban warfare, thus not leaving a whole lot of room to maneuver let alone circle strafe without losing contact with your target at some point.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

Furniture, on 06 June 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

He was playing it at E3, at the public computers. There's no NDA for getting to play the public E3 demos there, as far as I know.

Thought he was in the beta.

[Caballo]

It's not a bad mech if you think about it as a support mech and use Hit-and-Run tactics. If you go brawling, you're done in that thing.

Edited by Caballo, 07 June 2012 - 01:51 AM.

[rem12]

Always fear the dragon

[Solis Obscuri]

Adridos, on 01 June 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

It's an oversized medium. 5th fastest of all the mechs we have, but with lots of armor.

Pretty much. But honestly, what 60 tonner isn't? It's the low end of the "Heavy" bracket. Getting all hung up on arbitrary brackets for "Light", "Medium", "Heavy", and "Assault" without considering that there's nearly as much diversity between the ends of each bracket as there is between each adjacent bracket is silly.

And as for the mediums we have... I love both the Hunchie and Centurion, but the 3025 variants are slow. You look at those early TROs, some of the Assaults don't even seem to have that much punch (ZEU-6S? BNC-3E?) until you realize they can chase down almost anything over 45 tons and kick it to death. I'm really hoping we get at least one more medium design in that can go 5/8 or 6/9 without an XL engine.

[Hayden]

Eh.... just being in the "heavy" class doesn't mean anything, other than a 'mech is in an arbitrary range of tonnage. Cicada is another good example of this, much more similar to a heavy light in armament and intended use than it is a medium.

[Furniture]

Yeah, there are a lot of mechs that don't fit the stereotype of their weight class. The Panther is armed and mobile like a medium, but is still a light mech. It isnt' a scout. The Assassin and the Cicada are scouts, but are mediums. The Hunchback fights like a stereotypical heavy, but is a medium. The Dragon fights like a stereotypical medium, but is a heavy... etc. The list goes on.

Since we're in 3049 right now, the appropriate TROs are the 3039 and soon, the 3050 one. Looking at the mechs available in the 3039 TRO, you'll see that 5 of the mediums are 4/6, pretty slow for their class, but all are heavily armed, and many have jumpjets. As it stands, we have two of those 4/6 mediums in our lineup. The Dragon is faster than all of them. Role does not equal Weight Class. Find your role by your mech's attributes, not by its tonnage alone. People instictively judge a mech based on its weight class, but you have to look a little deeper if you want to truly appreciate the qualities of many of the mechs out there.

And to be honest, the Dragon would make a great command mech. You don't want your commander to get knocked off at the beginning of the match piloting a light mech as a scout, and you don't want him too busy brawling at close range in a slow assault mech so that he can't multitask and coordinate your support assets and artillery. In a Dragon, the commander could use his speed to stay out of the fight and give him breathing room to call artillery and so on, while offering long range supporting fire from his AC/5 and LRM 10. And since the mech is pretty tough, it should keep him alive if he keeps his wits about him. That seems like it might be another good role for the mobile Dragon.

[AceTimberwolf]

Alizabeth Aijou, on 06 June 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

Guess I don't miss much then, though.
Also, what about that NDA?

Gotta read the Thread Title yo! hahaha. Anyways okay after PLaying with the Dragon More here it is... Its fast=Great. It can take a good amount of Dmg = Awesome. Weapons could be better but are part of the point. I was using the dragon incorrectly I want to stand and trade punches with a Hunch and throw some dmg in at a Atlas on my own. Shouldn't have done that. Aside from some tweaking what i should have done was Go after the Catapults or Protect my Catapults from Nasty Jenners. or if one of my Catapults was unleashing its LRMs with good hits on someone to close in a finish them. The Dragon is a Quick strike and I did exactly what they were telling me not to do. Defense and Quick response= In the zone. Also Russ said they were still tweaking its hit box and they weren't done with the Dragon yet so no worries I"m sure when it comes out it'll be just right

That being said I'm excited to see what the Founders Dragon will be.

And also its not liek you can't change out the load out. I think in many of the mech discussions we forget you can buy and take out weapons. I"m not a JJ guy so i would take out Jump Jets if i took a Jenner

Edited by AceTimberwolf, 08 June 2012 - 08:28 AM.

[Johnathan Twattenhiem]

I must admit that the dragon may lack in firepower, but in my opinion, a UAC-5 really boosts its hitting power (if you don't mind the jamming). I swear I've killed a few Awesomes just by shooting them in the gut a whole bunch with that thing.

[shotokan5]

wow that is a lot of information. take all the advice you can get. then know what role is in the game. find a dragon model that will best fits the bill. the dragon is one of the furthest developed mechs that pound for pound ever built. Ask you Damyo what he thinks would be best for you. Being a true team sport it will work with what you are given and with a tweak. here and there you will end up with something that you can't live without. Also, Practice will make or break a design. There will be a moment when it will all begin to make sense. One thing that dragon drivers do is sometime put to much stock in med or small lasers. Problem is if in one place one shot can take you out weapons its a great House Kurita Mech and will serve you well.