89 replies to this topic

[Sybreed]

so I had 2 friends who tried the game this weekend and while they aren't TT experts, they played the old MW games, loved them, and wanted to give MWO a try.

At the first few games, they had a blast. They didn't really understand why they were overheating so much at first, but they got used to it and just fired less often than the rest of their DHS teammates/enemies. The dealt less damage, but at least they didn't overheat.

Then, badluck struck, and they were against a team who had 1 dual AC/20 jager, 1 AC/20 cat and 1 Dual Gauss Cat.

The match lasted 2 minutes and a half. They asked me why the cat was able to fit dual AC/20s and Gauss Rifles. Couldn't really give them a good answer, because ballistic hardpoints just made them say : "eh, that makes no sense". I had to explain them that such builds were pretty popular because big Alphastrikes were the thing now... so I think I might have scared them off .

Still, they enjoyed the gameplay and thought PGI did some good work with the actual mech combat thingy. They also really enjoyed the overall sound effects, but the Gauss Rifle lacked some punch they thought. Graphic wise: they're pretty impressed with the quality of a F2P game. But, the alphastrike team they fought against left a pretty bad taste (although, they could agree with the Jager having 2 AC/20s) so I don't know if they'll play the game very often from now on. Still, it was nice to have their input. They're a lot more casual than me, so I guess they could be considered the target demographic for PGI...

[Leiska]

Well, I at the very least completely agree about the gauss rifles. They look and sound much tamer than they actually are.

[Davers]

You could have pointed out the huge gun barrels coming out of the Cat's torso and say "Those are guns." Maybe they would have understood then.

[Wolf Ender]

so if you were playing LRM-warrior last week, getting blasted in the face with insane amounts of damage from just a few LRM salvos, would your friends have been all happy with the game and thrown down a hundred bucks to buy some MC? doubt it.

cool story bro, move along.

Edited by Wolf Ender, 25 March 2013 - 05:54 PM.

[Vrekgar]

Time to kill is just Too damn high for all these high alpha weapons.

[Sybreed]

Wolf Ender, on 25 March 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

so if you were playing LRM-warrior last week, getting blasted in the face with insane amounts of damage from just a few LRM salvos, would your friends have been all happy with the game and thrown down a hundred bucks to buy some MC? doubt it.

cool story bro, move along.

Nope, I doubt it. That wasn't the point of my thread. Sorry you're not smart enough to get it.

Davers, on 25 March 2013 - 05:50 PM, said:

You could have pointed out the huge gun barrels coming out of the Cat's torso and say "Those are guns." Maybe they would have understood then.

Well, we're talking a lot about new user experience right now, and this was their new user experience. Take it for what it is. I learned to deal with Gauss and AC/20 cats, but I'm a gold, I invested too much into this game to throw the towel away.. New players might not have the same patience.

[Grayseven]

It's called a learning curve. It's going to happen, better they learn sooner rather than later that a Jager or Catapult running at you is something you focus fire down quickly or run from if you can.

The only issue I have with the game is the lack of tutorial support. In-game support using the Training Grounds would beat any amount of YouTube videos and poorly written manuals. Trial mechs should only drop with other trial mechs and drop the queue down to 4 players per team when 16 players can't be found.

New players need time to acclimatize before being thrown to the wolves.

[Joe Mallad]

sorry guys but I do see where the OP is coming from. I too have had a friend try the game and my older brother who is also a founder has all but given up on the game. Those of us that have been here for a while now or longer as I have, have learned to deal with the next big thing (mech build) as they come and go... through their high and low points. But new players that want to give it a go, are really not having all that great of a time as some of us that have been here. The new player experience is still sub-par at best. Most of the vets here dont care to help new players out. Most of the vets belittle the new guys and treat them like trash... and its really not all that much fun to come into a game like this and be introduced to builds that really are not the norm.
I mean face it... the K2 was never meant to be a ballistic powerhouse, yet it can be in this game. The Stalker was never meant to run PPCs like it does, yet it does. When a new player runs into whole units of builds like this, it really is something that can frustrate a new player real quick and leave him/her with a bad overall view of the game.

Grayseven, on 25 March 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

It's called a learning curve. It's going to happen, better they learn sooner rather than later that a Jager or Catapult running at you is something you focus fire down quickly or run from if you can.

The only issue I have with the game is the lack of tutorial support. In-game support using the Training Grounds would beat any amount of YouTube videos and poorly written manuals. Trial mechs should only drop with other trial mechs and drop the queue down to 4 players per team when 16 players can't be found.

New players need time to acclimatize before being thrown to the wolves.

this i do agree with. And for the new players, this is something that should have been in from the get go.

[Davers]

Sybreed, on 25 March 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

Well, we're talking a lot about new user experience right now, and this was their new user experience. Take it for what it is. I learned to deal with Gauss and AC/20 cats, but I'm a gold, I invested too much into this game to throw the towel away.. New players might not have the same patience.

Sybreed, on 25 March 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

They asked me why the cat was able to fit dual AC/20s and Gauss Rifles. Couldn't really give them a good answer, because ballistic hardpoints just made them say : "eh, that makes no sense".

I was just referring to this part of your quote.

As for the 'new user experience', it is well known that stock mechs are terrible. I really think there should be more segregation for new users. They shouldn't even be part of Elo, or at least set to the lowest rung until they complete their first 25 games.

[Sybreed]

Davers, on 25 March 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

I was just referring to this part of your quote.

As for the 'new user experience', it is well known that stock mechs are terrible. I really think there should be more segregation for new users. They shouldn't even be part of Elo, or at least set to the lowest rung until they complete their first 25 games.

aye, making them part of elo is downright cruel

[Kaarde]

I understand where the OP is coming from, but did you point out that with you dropping with them it likely raised their ELO putting them in harder drops then they were prepared for?

I could be wrong on that point, but I have heard similar stories told to this several times. The one that stands out the most was a new player in a trial Stalker who dropped with 7 other vets in a fight on his first drop outside of the training grounds. Apparently the lad's player experience wasn't what he was hoping for and he didn't want to come back.

[XX Sulla XX]

Seems like they need an option for stock mech games only. I personally really like customized mechs. And high alphas are nothing new if you played MW4 etc. But a stock mech mode for new players and purists I think would work out well.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Getting obliterated made me grind and buy MC so I could get revenge hah, and I just can't give up MW, MW2 I still remember the mission where you had to save that downed odd looking ball mech with spider legs and fighting off waves and waves of enemies.

I do wish for more variations on weapons though, such has long/medium/close range variants for weapons and more limitations such as ER PPC is only effective from 800-1400m, down to a close range PPC. Forcing people to either play a long range build only carry other weapons rather than seeing the common builds all the time and hopefully give a weakness to alpha builds. I saw consistant AC10s on JMs this weekend which was shocking to see those dug out and I honestly had no clue what the range on them was!

Edited by shad0w4life, 25 March 2013 - 06:40 PM.

[TehSBGX]

I've been trying to get some of my friends into the game too but this game is flat our BRUTAL when you start up. I do not expect anyof them to stay they will likely move on to other games or move back to what they were already playing becuase this game simply has no mercy for newbies.

[INSEkT L0GIC]

Kaarde, on 25 March 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

I understand where the OP is coming from, but did you point out that with you dropping with them it likely raised their ELO putting them in harder drops then they were prepared for?

I could be wrong on that point, but I have heard similar stories told to this several times. The one that stands out the most was a new player in a trial Stalker who dropped with 7 other vets in a fight on his first drop outside of the training grounds. Apparently the lad's player experience wasn't what he was hoping for and he didn't want to come back.

Yep, when dropping with new players it is better to create a new account and run trial mechs alongside them.

[Kaarde]

INSEkT L0GIC, on 25 March 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

Yep, when dropping with new players it is better to create a new account and run trial mechs alongside them.

I had suspected as much. Somewhere in the cobwebs infesting my short term memory I thought I read that in pre made groups the ELO is averaged, and someone with a high ELO will scew the group to a higher matchmaking ELO.

Taking that thought a bit further, new players that drop in constant premades likely will end up with an ELO higher than he is prepared for when going solo and will have some rough games until things level out for him.

Frankly, I agree with the person who said that new players should drop in a protected queue for their first x amount of drops, then be eased into the shark pond as they gain experience.

[Vahnn]

Yeah, I have a buddy who played some MW4 back in the day, and when I was telling him about this game, he was excited to try... Then played 1 game (about a month ago) and said, F this," and never touched it again.

He finally agreed to try it out again last night, we played about 6 games, and in Ventrilo. He was using the Trial Trebuchet and Stalker.

He was having a decent time, since he just followed me in my Atlas and shot whatever I shot, but he was complaining about how he can only fire a couple times before overheating (just his 4 ML and 2 LL, he ignored the SRM/LRM in the Stalker.) He accepted that the Trial mechs simply suck, especially once I explaind that DHS will basically eliminate that problem and open up his weapon options considerably.

Things were going well until we won our first 5 games... Then Elo decided to "even out" our W:L ratio... We were pitted against such brutally lop-sided teams in the next 2 matches that had 0 fun and ended hating the experience overall.

We're both long-tim LoL players, so he understands the tendency for Elo to be... 'rubberband-y,' allowing you a nice win streak, followed by a not-so-fun losing streak...

He loved the graphics and all the cool tricks I was telling him, and he really liked the scouting/vision modes/LoS radar features in terms of locating enemies. The graphics and the sounds of the weapons, and the sensation of piloting a giant robot were all huge draws.

My overall impression is that he will not be back immediately... But within a few weeks, he'll be back.

[Victor Morson]

Were they in trial 'mechs?

'cause the problem is not boats it's trial 'mechs.

[Kivin]

Vahnn, on 25 March 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

'rubberband-y,' allowing you a nice win streak, followed by a not-so-fun losing streak...

This is utter nonsense. Rubbish. ELO takes ages to drift one way or the other. Pretty much everybody agrees on this. You had a few bad games because you had a few bad games. It's just as simple as that.

Vahnn, on 25 March 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

2 matches

You let TWO matches judge your entire experience of the game. Even after having a five-win streak. Incredible. And you allowed that to poison the image of a new player. Good job.

Vahnn, on 25 March 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

Then played 1 game and never touched it again.

Sounds like this is a pattern. Maybe he should find something he actually enjoys. Instead of Mechs.

As to the other naysayers: You realize that the survival of this game - that I assume you enjoy, since you're here, talking about it, however negatively - depends on an influx of new players, right? People leave the game every day. It's common sense. If you don't bring in new blood, its going to die off. The community is already so small, we think, that the ELO can't match properly. You might want to find it in you to think my charitably towards beginners and their experience if you actually care at all about the game being around in twelve to eighteen months. An awful lot of founders can't stand getting pitted in one salvo; what do you expect new players to think?

Edited by Kivin, 25 March 2013 - 08:31 PM.

[Tenzek]

The biggest problem that they're dealing with is being stuck with extremely weak stock mechs. That's something they're starting to deal with now by looking at player designed trial mechs instead of stock.

There is a vote going on right now for the first one. Have your friends check back when we start seeing them released.