34 replies to this topic

[Aegis Kleais]

BentLent98, on 02 June 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Wait, I thought they said mwo was free to play, not pay to win... Did I read it wrong?

I have to +1 your post cause it made me laugh.

Like C-bills or XP somehow make you a more powerful player or give you some kind of access to tech that's better (cause it doesn't).

[Orion Pirate]

BentLent98, on 02 June 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Wait, I thought they said mwo was free to play, not pay to win... Did I read it wrong?

More XP and Money does not = win...

Skill counts for everything.

[MadBoris]

GuntherK, on 02 June 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

Earning xp and credits faster will make you get stuff faster. Not better.

I think you maybe mistaken and a bit too assumptive on that point, depending how you define better I guess.
We will all have to wait and see.

I would never be foolish to call it P2W, it's not close to that classification yet. I actually don't even believe the concept exists, except to describe things like gold rounds. The actual problem is P2A (Pay To Advantage), the question is how marked a degree the advantage over the free player is, to the extent it inconveniences a free player by disadvantage.

Nothing can make the player better per se, but having better gear quicker is an advantage. You say it won't be better, that is where I think you may be mistaken. It looks like all things will need to be unlocked by XP, those earning double will unlock more faster, along with having money to buy them outright. You don't think those unlockables will give people an advantage of some tangible sort, I do. I'm sure that there will be some tangible and beneficial differences on the battlefield, it's unavoidable. People will see, it's not all going to rainbows, that I doubt. Even the best F2P models can't avoid some of these things, question will be how wonky it gets. I saw the devs comments on these things, endeavoring to quell people's concerns. To think earning faster won't be tangibly better, just cuts across all logic to me, it sounds like too much kool-aid mixed with some Everclear, the words don't compute to me.

Quote

Someday people will understand that for a game to survive it has to make money, even if it is a f2p.

BTW, they need to make money, just like everyone else does too, I don't understand how they got excluded in the first place.
Some people want quality to be the determining factor on developers earning money, not the usual tricks of building gaps between convenience to the payer and inconvenience to the free, that many have to stay vocal on until the abuses stop. There's only a few F2P games, out of many many F2P games, that people say are not too bad. Is everyone the fool on that including mainstream press? I guess the gamers raising flags of caution don't want the developers to eat or make games, that must be it.

My reasoning to take a stand is simple, I want a game that is enjoyable beyond 4 months, which a bad F2P model will kill on a certain level, and I don't want the industry to continue down using manipulation techniques because kids are easy marks. Horribly misguided, I know.

Edited by MadBoris, 02 June 2012 - 02:04 PM.

[Kazzamo]

May take on the P2W concept is when a "F2P" game starts doing things like selling weapons in their cash shop that do more damage than anything you can earn by playing the game, or potions that heal twice as much and lack the cool down time the ones from in the game do. Those sorta things are out there. Hopefully MW:O won't go in that direction, but you never know... maybe a year from now you can only get clan tech from the cash shop.

[GHQCommander]

BentLent98, on 02 June 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

Wait, I thought they said mwo was free to play, not pay to win... Did I read it wrong?

Selling things in a game does not mean it is pay to win.

It is a free to play game, if you opt to not to pay.

Most games allow us to pay, to advanced quicker, not get stronger than we normally would, just get ranked up to a state any player can through playing. It is a great option for people short on time and plenty cash.

Edited by GHQCommander, 07 June 2012 - 06:39 PM.

[GHQCommander]

Orion Pirate, on 02 June 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

More XP and Money does not = win...

Skill counts for everything.

You said it, I'm all up for defending any software when people not only expect it free but they expect it to exist without any revenue model.

It's like, business. It's not even something that can be argued is it, hell a player can't even have an opinion on it because it's either one model or another. If its not free to play with level up items then it has to be subscription and all the poor men do not get to play at all.

Educate educate educate, it is important

[Teralitha]

Its not pay to win... now ****

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

it's the old time vs money argument, which is a very good approach in my opinion with free to play games so long as it's not impossible to get to the top end without it. I understand games need money to run but happy customers premium or not are usually more willing to spend money

[oohawkoo]

pay to win in the case of this would be buying weapons that hit harder do more damage over time hit further etc or buying armour that would make you practicly un killable with standard weapons...

just earning a little more exp and c-bills is not pay to win at all sure it gives you an edge interms of cashflow and you might get access to varients of weapons mechs and armour faster than someone who dosent pay to get premium but thats all there is to it... you just get someting a bit faster than average .... and its not like those mechs and weapons or systems are any better if you get them sooner than say a week later on a a standard account ...

mostly id think the ppl finding fault (tho i might be wrong and really mean no offence by it ) are the ones that feel if they pay they should get an advantage along with it that equates to totaly dominateing ppl that havent payed =X <=== this kinda thing i thinks stupid myself =3

[Lomack]

Prohet of Entropy, on 02 June 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

but isnt making more money and xp mean your winning? even if you cant shoot worth a damn and die before do any damage????

I guess it depends on how YOU classify winning. For me winning is having a good damage per battle ratio or having a good win loss match ratio. This game is not about who can collect the most cbills. Then premium service would help you "win". However, it is not going to help me destroy someone elses mech better.

I suppose one could argue that if I earn xp faster, my pilot will level faster and I can get the added pilot abilities faster giving me some kind of advantage, though I am not sure how much that could be (since I haven't even played yet). But, its not like everyone can't get there for free, it just make take a bit less time for paying people.

[OcO]

Boosters COULD be considered P2W. I stress the could because IMO it really comes down to how much of a boost we are talking.

As an extreme example:
Player A - normal player no booster
Player B - premium player with XP booster

Both players play for the same amount of time a day. Because of the XP booster Player B is able to completely max out their mech XP for a specific chassis and all variants in 1 months time. In order for Player A to complete the mech XP for the same chassis and all variants it will take them 2 years.

Like I said that is an extreme example and I'm fairly sure the devs are not going to give the boosters that much of an increase. However considering that completely maxing out a mech's xp tree will grant a number of bonuses those all start to add up over time. Not having access to the game yet to see exactly how much stronger a maxed out player is and how much of a boost we are talking about for premium accounts makes it impossible to know if it is P2W or not.

[Joe Kid]

I see the premium account/booster account as a Pay to Survive against all those much more knowledgeable about BT strategy than myself, and all those that are more experienced in a Mech cockpit. I want every advantage I can because I have not played MW in years. I do have a feeling though that anyone with experience and knowledge will have the same type of account.

[Gakky]

Pretty much been flogged to death but it's the whole time vs money as stated above, I myself will purchase a premium account for the simple fact that I have a full time career that comes first and can't put as much time into the game as I would like. But I can throw money at it to make up.

My counter argument to the whole someone can earn XP and skills faster because they pay for premium isn't "fair". How about if I didn't have the ability to get a premium account and my inability the sink as much time into the game as others causes me to lag behind the pack? Is that any different? I don't think so, it's just the other side of the argument most people seem to turn a blind eye to cause people with jobs and credit cards are evil I guess? If you have lots of time to play then don't pay for premium if you don't want to, there will be people that have lots of time and money and if they want to spend money to expedite they're experience.....have at her.

(speculation) I don't see PGI allowing you to use hard cash for any special item's, asides from strictly niche things (hula girl, take my money!) or purely aesthetic purchases, but time will tell.

[JxP]

Any word on what the monthly fee will end up as for a premium account?

Edited by JxP, 10 June 2012 - 11:49 AM.

[Mr Insane]

GHQCommander, on 07 June 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

You said it, I'm all up for defending any software when people not only expect it free but they expect it to exist without any revenue model.

It's like, business. It's not even something that can be argued is it, hell a player can't even have an opinion on it because it's either one model or another. If its not free to play with level up items then it has to be subscription and all the poor men do not get to play at all.

Educate educate educate, it is important

I ain't no need edunication. Dat stuffz yoosless.

On a serious note, yea that's pretty much how it works. Look at stuff like EVE Online and WoW. I like EVE, don't get me wrong, but the prices are derp for people who can't afford it.

Even when a game IS free, WoT is a good example, you still got this stuff that you can continue burning money on. Except WoT is also Pay2Win to a certain degree. (special Ammunition. I swear back in Beta that stuff wasn't Gold-only. I would know, I was in it.)

Basically, I just repeated your post. Have a nice day.