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The State Of Guardian Ecm - Feedback


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#1 Kyle Polulak

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:08 PM

With the recent news from the following Command Chair Announcement:
http://mwomercs.com/...f-guardian-ecm/

Spoiler



This thread shall serve as the official response channel. Please keep your feedback, responses, comments and concerns limited to this thread so that we may both consolidate your responses and ensure no valuable opinions are lost.

Please also remember to keep your responses in line with the Code of Conduct and direct your comments to us (PGI/IGP) rather than arguing with other respondents. Let's keep it constructive!

#2 Royalewithcheese

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:37 PM

I think it's cute that Paul thinks the PPC counters ECM.

#3 hammerreborn

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:39 PM

View PostRoyalewithcheese, on 03 April 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

I think it's cute that Paul thinks the PPC counters ECM.


I think it's cute you think it doesn't.

Like the changes either way, will hopefully stop the complaining about friendly fire.

Edited by hammerreborn, 03 April 2013 - 01:39 PM.


#4 Nicholas Carlyle

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:39 PM

5 months for that? And PPCs vs ECM. Hilarious. Guess that ECM thread was a waste of time.

#5 Deathlike

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:39 PM

Having an ECM hardpoint is NOT a real fix. Seriously. This is very similar to the AMS hardpoint.. not that useful.

The latter point in the post however is good. Obscuring your teammates from your view confuses newbies to a whole different level. That is very problematic. With higher level play, this is a lot more interesting... but newbies, not so much.

In sum, I don't think this goes far enough, especially with respect to ECM, Streaks, and other light mechs.

Edited by Deathlike, 03 April 2013 - 01:40 PM.


#6 AntiCitizenJuan

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:41 PM

I like how he brought up BAP in a positive light. When it's really a total waste of tonnage, and chances are if you run one not only are YOU bad, but you internet robot is bad too

#7 hammerreborn

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:41 PM

View PostDeathlike, on 03 April 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

Having an ECM hardpoint is NOT a real fix. Seriously. This is very similar to the AMS hardpoint.. not that useful.

The latter point in the post however is good. Obscuring your teammates from your view confuses newbies to a whole different level. That is very problematic.

In sum, I don't think this goes far enough, especially with respect to ECM, Streaks, and other light mechs.


The reason for it is that you can aim for the torso part the ECM is in. Right now ECM could be in any torso, making its 3 hp kinda negligible because you first have to find it. Now you know exactly where to shoot to disable it (because it dies nearly as fast as a guass)

Edited by hammerreborn, 03 April 2013 - 01:42 PM.


#8 Phaesphoros

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:41 PM

Thank you for the command chair (seriously).


Quote

First, hit detection on all Mechs was off quite a bit. [...] What does this have to do with ECM?

I don't think the question has been answered, sry. My JR does not have ECM.

Quote

Second, ECM counters were needed to bring it in line with where we wanted it to be. It took us some time to get these systems online because 1) We had some higher priority pressure items to deal with first and 2) we needed to make sure that all counters (especially modules) work correctly across the network.

Alright, thank you, I understand that.

Quote

Now that they are in, you will notice that ECM is not as big of an issue as it was before.

Anything changed as of last patch?

Quote

Putting a PPC shot on an ECM equipped Mech makes them very vulnerable for 4 seconds...

Vulnerable like a mech that does NOT have ECM?

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but not only that, you have also put a lot of damage into that Mech.

?? (same as above)

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The “Advanced Sensor Range” module allows you to get a lock on an ECM Mech at a longer distance and S-SRMs/LRMs can be fired in a larger window than before.

Anything changed?

Quote

That said, there are two things suggested by the community that struck a chord and we will be looking into implementing soon:

What about ECM+SSRM combo, especially on RVNs?

Edited by Phaesphoros, 03 April 2013 - 01:46 PM.


#9 AlexEss

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:42 PM

to be honest the only real problem with ECM right now is the ECM+Streak combo. Outside of that it is perfectly fine.

In my personal opinion.

#10 jay35

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:42 PM

it's a solid post. Good depth, well written, explains reasoning behind existing actions and planned actions, has a bigger picture in mind, and communicates it well. I respect it. More of this, please.

#11 Lord Ikka

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:42 PM

Hardpoint is fine, but the advaced sensor module will soon be a default for competitive streakboats.

#12 Chemie

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:43 PM

should have split disrupt and counter as separate equipment

#13 Esplodin

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:43 PM

Nerf, buff - meh. ECM was the boogie man when it first came out. Now? Not so much. My Spider 5D seems to have zero issues dying, nor does it seem to have as many issues legging ravens unless they are in packs. Why? People adapted and PGI fixed hitscan weapons, and trust me my Spider noticed. I look forward to ballistic and SRM changes, since it will give me the opportunity to become a better pilot.

I got me some popcorn, cause this thread is gonna get interesting! ;)

#14 Phaesphoros

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:44 PM

View Posthammerreborn, on 03 April 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

The reason for it is that you can aim for the torso part the ECM is in. Right now ECM could be in any torso, making its 3 hp kinda negligible because you first have to find it. Now you know exactly where to shoot to disable it (because it dies nearly as fast as a guass)

I don't have any problem with ECM on DDCs, They're fat and slow and you can counter them. But ECM on fast mechs? Especially on RVNs? How are we supposed to strip their armor, destroy the ECM and THEN attack them for real?

#15 GODzillaGSPB

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:46 PM

View Posthammerreborn, on 03 April 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

I think it's cute you think it doesn't.


I agree, you'd normally think that at least the bulky Atlas 7D-DC would be hit by ppc more often, disabling ecm. So...I'll try to remember how often I saw this.

...örhm...

... ;)

#16 Royalewithcheese

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:46 PM

View Posthammerreborn, on 03 April 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

I think it's cute you think it doesn't.

Like the changes either way, will hopefully stop the complaining about friendly fire.


If a 3-L gets hit by any serious build that runs PPCs, it has more pressing issues than losing ECM for 4 seconds. Don't get me wrong, I actually think ECM is mostly okay (and will be more okay with HSR II) but 4 seconds of short-out from a PPC was never a viable counter.

#17 shintakie

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:47 PM

Through the entire post I just kept shakin my head and wonderin how incredibly out of touch you all are. Then I got to the very last line in the post.

Quote

ECM should not cut out friendly signatures on the battlefield. Friendly Mechs should always be identifiable and not obscure team play.


Thank. Friggin. God.

I get the idea, I really really do. I understand how much you want teamwork to be a major part of gameplay. I understand how ECM actually helps that along quite nicely.

What I never understood the entire time ECM has been out was the insistence on makin it as hard as possible to do that as a pugger. No voice chat for puggers. A completely god awful chat interface for puggers. Then ECM came in with the final knockout blow makin it completely impossible for puggers to work together at all by hidin any relevant information that can be given.

View Posthammerreborn, on 03 April 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

I think it's cute you think it doesn't.

Like the changes either way.


It counters a single ECM unit, 2 together and suddenly you need to have 2 PPCs to counter the ECM effect. That's 14 tons of equipment, not includin heat sinks, to counter 3 tons of equipment.

There's still the fairly large issue of the counters to ECM bein far more expensive/heavy than the actual ECM unit is and they're all soft counters at best while the only hard counter to ECM is. Wait for it. Another ECM.

That's stupid.

Related I really wish they'd stop callin them counters. They're a soft counter. The presence of a PPC does not counter ECM except in the 4 seconds after they were hit by a projectile. The presence of the modules they mentioned does not counter ECM except in the 100ish meter range you can target them. The presence of TAG does not nullify the use of ECM except on the one single target you're targettin with the TAG and you have to hold the target the entire time while they have to...do absolutely nothin. Any loss of time on target with TAG instantaneously loses lock, targetin data, weapon readouts, and sensor information.

A hard counter is where you have somethin and it stops somethin else. ECM is a hard counter to missiles. If you have ECM on, you can't be hit by lock on missiles. The only time this effect is negated is if another ECM unit negates your ECM entirely (hard counter), or you are in the extremely limited set of circumstances above (all of which are avoidable in there entirety, and easily avoidable).

#18 AlexEss

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:47 PM

View PostPhaesphoros, on 03 April 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

I don't have any problem with ECM on DDCs, They're fat and slow and you can counter them. But ECM on fast mechs? Especially on RVNs? How are we supposed to strip their armor, destroy the ECM and THEN attack them for real?


I'd suggest with laser for now.. actually lasers will most likley always be the best choice. Beyond that it is all about practise practise practise.

#19 Carrioncrows

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:47 PM

Advanced Sensor range as a COUNTER TO ECM

Are you XXXXXXX serious?

Your whole Electronic Warfare is Flat and 1 dimensional you need to convert it over to something like this: http://mwomercs.com/...eedback-thread/

That's more dynamic and build within the system rather than just a flat blanket effect that player skill nor player function can change.

Over all, ECM has never been the major issue for me. It's annoying, it means if we are dropping with light pilots in any sort of competitive match they "MUST" be a raven 3L because all other other mechs are **** compared to a mech taking ECM.

I hate being "FORCED" to take an ECM mech to be competitive.

But I hate it mostly because of streaks.

Are the changes a step in the right direction? Yes, but it's a LONG way from being fixed.

Continue on. I guess we'll deal with it.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 03 April 2013 - 01:51 PM.


#20 Victor Morson

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Posted 03 April 2013 - 01:48 PM

I would be happy with ECM cutting our friendly sigs on radar, if it didn't make LRMs stop working up close. That's where it's broken, the radar thing was neat IMO.





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