73 replies to this topic

[cipher]

Since there was so much AMD love in there, time to bring in an Intel and NVIDIA build recommendation...

Wishlist: http://secure.newegg...Number=19458625

Details are in the wish list, but it's...

Lian-Li PC-60FN all-aluminum mid-tower case
ASUS Z77 motherboard
Intel Core i5 2400 Sandy Bridge
Kingston 8GB of DDR3-1600
ASUS NVIDIA GTX 560 Ti 448 cores
Western Digital Black 500GB
SeaSonic M12II 650W (53a of 12V)
ASUS optical drive/burner

That's a better case, comparable components, and cheaper at $981.92 before shipping. It's cheaper because I didn't include the OS. On that note I'd really recommend buying a "retail" copy of Windows 7, not an OEM copy. The retail copy lets you transfer it from one PC to the next. If you upgrade a motherboard or transfer to a new PC you wouldn't be allowed to use the OEM copy on that new motherboard according to the license. That said, many people are still getting around it by calling in when they activate an OEM copy of Windows on a new PC/motherboard. But just a heads up on it.

The 7870 is just a little bit faster than the 560 Ti 448, and it's a lot faster for anisotropic filtering, but the 560 Ti is also less expensive. You could go with a cheaper case ($50 vs. $100) and put $50 more towards the video card for a 660 or even more for a 670 if you went NVIDIA. But it really depends on what resolution you're gaming at. If it's HD (1920x1080) or less, a 560 Ti and a 7870 is fine. On that note with a massive cooler like the ASUS card I linked in the wish list, you can overclock it to be comparable with the GTX 580. But since the OP doesn't seem like the overclocking type, we can skip that point. And that's why I didn't add a 3rd party cooler to the CPU either.

It also matters how long you want to keep your PC to upgrade it vs. ditching it for a new one later. If you don't really care about upgrading, a cheaper case and more expensive video card is better. If you want to get a little more life out of it by upgrading down the road, you'd want to invest more into the case, power supply, and motherboard like I did in my build.

Edited by cipher, 11 June 2012 - 09:11 AM.

[Koshadows]

This build is pretty solid except I'd go with either a 7850 or a 7870. The 448 core 560 never made much sense to me because it performs slightly(SLIGHTLY) less than a gtx 570, and you can find 570s for almost the exact same price right now.

We should definitely ask if there's a microcenter near the OP. Then the intel suggestions would be pretty solid considering MC still sells 2500k for about 170 + tax with a $50 discount on mobos if you buy the K unlocked processors

[cipher]

Koshadows, on 11 June 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

This build is pretty solid except I'd go with either a 7850 or a 7870. The 448 core 560 never made much sense to me because it performs slightly(SLIGHTLY) less than a gtx 570, and you can find 570s for almost the exact same price right now.

We should definitely ask if there's a microcenter near the OP. Then the intel suggestions would be pretty solid considering MC still sells 2500k for about 170 + tax with a $50 discount on mobos if you buy the K unlocked processors

I completely agree about the 2500k. If I was on a budget I'd opt for that CPU, but you'd have to get one from somewhere other than places like Newegg since it's no longer sold there.

You also mention the 560 Ti 448 vs the 570. This is why for the 560 Ti 448 from http://www.guru3d.co...-core-review/24:

Quote

Gaming wise the 448 core might just be what the doctor ordered for the latest game titles though, it has a chunk of extra memory which Battlefield 3 really likes, it has that little extra bite that Crysis 2 likes so much and as such it can be looked at as a really nice 1920x1080/1200 resolution graphics card.

Don't forget that the card tested today was clocked at reference speeds, there will be multiple SKUs out there coming factory overclocked, which brings this product towards the GeForce GTX 570 easily, and getting very close to GeForce GTX 580. If anything, our overclock without voltage tweaking has been showing great potential.

With that being said, the OP might not want to overclock anything. If they want a powerhouse for a gaming GPU, I'd really rather suggest the GTX 670 or GTX 680, but then we're adding $100 to $200 more. And for our resident AMD fanboy, I'll admit the 7970 is a great card too. I just prefer NVIDIA drivers.

Edited by cipher, 11 June 2012 - 09:23 AM.

[DV McKenna]

cipher, on 11 June 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

On that note I'd really recommend buying a "retail" copy of Windows 7, not an OEM copy. The retail copy lets you transfer it from one PC to the next. If you upgrade a motherboard or transfer to a new PC you wouldn't be allowed to use the OEM copy on that new motherboard according to the license. That said, many people are still getting around it by calling in when they activate an OEM copy of Windows on a new PC/motherboard. But just a heads up on it.

Flat out wrong completely, there is absolutely no reason to buy a more expensive retail copy unless your clueless or M$ change they way the whole system works for Windows 8.

I have an 64bit Win 7 OEM copy, it has been on 4 different machines without ever having to phone in and if you google you'll find countless more people who have experienced the same.

The only time i had to phone line activate a copy was for the 32bit disc that came in the same package that i put on my laptop, and as i stated in another thread that was likely due to the fact the product key was tied to the 64 bit disc in M$ database somewhere.
And the phone in activation is automated.

Edited by DV McKenna, 11 June 2012 - 09:31 AM.

[cipher]

DV McKenna, on 11 June 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

Flat out wrong completely, there is absolutely no reason to buy a more expensive retail copy unless your clueless or M$ change they way the whole system works for Windows 8.

I have an 64bit Win 7 OEM copy, it has been on 4 different machines without ever having to phone in and if you google you'll find countless more people who have experienced the same.

The only time i had to phone line activate a copy was for the 32bit disc that came in the same package that i put on my laptop, and as i stated in another thread that was likely due to the fact the product key was tied to the 64 bit disc in M$ database somewhere.
And the phone in activation is automated.

Sorry, you're still wrong. As I mentioned, people are getting around it like you have, but the license still stands (and you're violating it). I might have been wrong in stating that you'd have to call in to activate for a change for every single time, but there are some who've had to do this with an OEM copy when they switched PCs.

In the image below, the cheaper copies of Windows you find are "OEM System Builder", and the more expensive copies are Retail (Full Package)...


From: http://www.zdnet.com...-licensing/1514

Edited by cipher, 11 June 2012 - 09:43 AM.

[DV McKenna]

Actually no on this one your wrong, you do not require a re install or reactivation on changing PC components specifically Microsofts end user permits all changes to a system except for the motherboard, the motherboard is where Microsoft terms it a new computer if replaced (unless replaced with a board of the same type)
What the OEM licence is actually for is because its intended for systems built then sold on, the builder has the responsibility to offer support for that machine even if you upgrade it..untill the motherboard is replaced.
http://answers.micro...48-ecc883344c54

If its for your own machine, you are the system builder.

However currently they have no software or hardware that implements this what so ever and your chart shows this, because OEM kits are always allowed to clean install, you will be free to reinstall Windows OEM kits over and over again and the worst you will have to face is a phone activation in very rare circumstances which is automated and spits you out a new code at no cost..

There is no real reason as a hobbyist to buy retail, violation of the OEM licence or not your the system builder offering support to yourself.

Edited by DV McKenna, 11 June 2012 - 09:55 AM.

[cipher]

DV McKenna, on 11 June 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

Actually no on this one your wrong, you do not require a re install or reactivation on changing PC components specifically Microsofts end user permits all changes to a system except for the motherboard, the motherboard is where Microsoft terms it a new computer if replaced

Isn't that what I just said many posts above? As in a new PC/motherboard...

cipher, on 11 June 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

On that note I'd really recommend buying a "retail" copy of Windows 7, not an OEM copy. The retail copy lets you transfer it from one PC to the next. If you upgrade a motherboard or transfer to a new PC you wouldn't be allowed to use the OEM copy on that new motherboard according to the license.

You argued with that, no idea why other than just for the sake of arguing? Now you're feeding back exactly what I said earlier? Please get your arguments on the same page, lol.

I'm not sure about you but I...

1.) Don't pirate software
2.) Don't violate software licenses
3.) Don't violate NDAs.

Not sure where you stand, but that's the appropriate steps to follow.

Edited by cipher, 11 June 2012 - 09:58 AM.

[Koshadows]

I dunno cipher, the 560 448 you linked has 1280 mb of vram. That's the exact same amount as a gtx 570 base model There's also a 2.5gb ver of 570, but its really overpriced since its about the same price as a 7870 yet slower.

[cipher]

Koshadows, on 11 June 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

I dunno cipher, the 560 448 you linked has 1280 mb of vram. That's the exact same amount as a gtx 570 base model There's also a 2.5gb ver of 570, but its really overpriced since its about the same price as a 7870 yet slower.

It's all a matter of how you use it, and you're right, not a huge difference there. But that will all be passe when the 660 Ti is released in August. I guess we'll have to see how NVIDIA spaced the 650, 660 Ti, 670, and 680 at that time.

Edited by cipher, 11 June 2012 - 10:01 AM.

[DV McKenna]

cipher, on 11 June 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

Isn't that what I just said many posts above? As in a new PC/motherboard...



You argued with that, no idea why other than just for the sake of arguing? Now you're feeding back exactly what I said earlier? Please get your arguments on the same page, lol.

I'm not sure about you but I...

1.) Don't pirate software
2.) Don't violate software licenses
3.) Don't violate NDAs.

Not sure where you stand, but that's the appropriate steps to follow.

Violating the licence is touchy at best, its there to protect the system builder who sold the PC, as your building yourself..they allow users to do it and have done for years.
If they were that bothered they would have done something about it by now.

Fact remains there is no reason to buy a retail version at this time.

Edited by DV McKenna, 11 June 2012 - 10:02 AM.

[cipher]

DV McKenna, on 11 June 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

Violating the licence is touchy at best, its there to protect the system builder who sold the PC, as your building yourself..they allow users to do it and have done for years.
If they were that bothered they would have done something about it by now.

Fact remains there is no reason to buy a retail version at this time.

It's still written into the policy. The fact that they're not regularly enforcing it doesn't mean it's "ok". They could easily change their activation system tomorrow and block anyone trying to do that. With the retail version you're adhering to this policy and never have to worry about it.

[DV McKenna]

Unlikely because courts across the world will hammer them for it, much like they did for the relatively minor fact IE came bundled with Windows with no choice, and they know this hence they do not enforce it, Just dont expect any support services from Microsoft.

[Vulpesveritas]

@everyone saying I am an AMD fanboy, I disagree.
CPUs: AMD is a superior value in most cases, as the primary concern of a gaming PC is the GPU and a casual use PC the storage speed and longevity. If you feel the need to push for an intel, feel free to, though I recommend that you prioritize on what will make the largest difference for your needs. In my personal choices I value ethics more than the majority of individuals it seems, and because of my values I refuse to buy from a company guilty of blackmail, antitrust actions, monoplization tactics and poisening water supplies through irresponsible chemical emission controls.

GPU: at the moment, AMD has better price / performance versus nvidia in most cases, see my guide and any reputible website's reviews, along with current retail prices.

RAM: while costing the same as competitor brands of RAM, you get an extra round of QC, USA made RAM, extruded aluminum low profile heatsinks, and a lifetime warranty. Doesn't sound like such a bad deal to me.

So overall, if you feel that you shouldn't make decisions by math, logic, and morality, then I'm going to have to question your own reasoning abilities and as such doubt your suggestions. If I'm proven wrong, so much the better, as it is always better to learn than live in ignorance.

And on topic, why would you put so much money into the case and cpu without having a higher end GPU seeing as it is a gaming rig?

That aside, for gaming data storage will be your fourth priority, after gpu, cpu, and cooling. Generally speaking i my opinion of course, although other opinions may differ.

[cipher]

Vulpesveritas, on 11 June 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

@everyone saying I am an AMD fanboy, I disagree.

It's not a horrible thing, but you're even in denial about it, lol.

[Vulpesveritas]

cipher, on 11 June 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

It's not a horrible thing, but you're even in denial about it, lol.

I'm an ethics obsessive fanboy with a sense of math in the form of price/performance.

[cipher]

Ethics? Just remember that it swings poorly from both sides.

http://www.zdnet.com...mark-ethics/438

Both are corporations, and both are out to make a profit and attract more investors. Don't forget that.

[Vulpesveritas]

Intel: environmental disaster, blackmail, antitrust, monopilization,
AMD: using old benchmarks for advertising

Which is the bigger problem?

[cipher]

Vulpesveritas, on 11 June 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

Intel: environmental disaster, blackmail, antitrust, monopilization,
AMD: using old benchmarks for advertising

Which is the bigger problem?

Ah, you're one of those.

Now I understand the fanboyism a little better.

[iron wolf]

Such a shame that everyone's put in effort to make suggestions, just for OP to disappear, and the thread to derail.

[Askat]

Ok... Dunno where exactly do you come from, but thinking of USA.

I'm from Europe(Germany) and my PC(build 3 weeks before) cost round about 850€, with good to excellent hardware.

First a few points:

AMD or Intel? Depends on money(AMD is cheaper) - Both good enough for a good gaming PC(not High End) (Phenom II 955 or a cheap Ivy Bridge)
Graphics - AMD or NVIDIA? For saving money: AMD! (HD6870 or higher, minimum 7770)
SSD or HDD? SSD makes it faster to work, but isn't necessary for a nice game experience. (~90$)
Vista or 7 (really Vista? trolol) ALWAYS 7! 64-Bit Home Premium (~80 bugs)

What exactly do you want to pay?
500?
800?
1000?

I think you can build a well performing machine with 800$.
I used Newegg.com (never did it before, strange page and a lot of manufactures i know from Germany wasn't available)

Here my list:
* Scythe SCKTN-4000 92mm Katana 4 CPU Cooler - $33
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16835185178
(You shouldn't use the box cooler)

* Intel Core i5-3450 Ivy Bridge 3.1GHz (3.5GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core - $200
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16819116506
(so much power! but you could pay 100$ less, if you take a cheap phenom, wouldnt buy bulldozer actually) (if you take amd, you need another board!)

* ASRock H77 Pro4/MVP LGA 1155 Intel H77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard - $95
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813157302
(You will NEVER need Z77, this is a really good board!)

* Rosewill CAPSTONE Series CAPSTONE-450 450W Continuous @ 50°C, 80 PLUS GOLD - $50
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817182066
(you will NEVER need more then 450/500W!!! dont take one with more and look on 80+ with min. bronze)

* SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 6870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 - $180
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814102948
(BETTER then 560TI! AND cheaper)

* Seagate Barracuda Green ST1500DL003 1.5TB 5900 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - $100
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16822148725
(its green, but with the new mechanics is as fast as 7200 rpm and costs less and need less energy)

* LIAN LI Lancool PC-K7B Black Aluminum/ SECC ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $80
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811112154
(take a case you like, not really important)

* SAMSUNG 22X DVD Burner SATA Model SH-222BB/BEBE - OEM - $14
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16827151244
(you need something to read cd/dvd^^)

* CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Profile Desktop - $55
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16820233186
(very good and cheap memory!)

* Win 7 Home Premium - 64 Bit - $180
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16832116716
(omg... i'm paying 80€ for this windows... how.. 180??? but thats it...^^)

with software: $987

You can pay less with AMD processor and take a cheaper case and a smaller HDD. (i think 800 is easy possible)