46 replies to this topic

[Grisolm Redd]

Another one of these threads huh.

From what I understand, and this may also be rampant speculation, there won't be a need for 'drop-limits'. This was a mechanic that was implemented to counter-act a poorly designed mechanic ( the "Arms Race" I think the devs called it, and accurately so ), and with the information we have on balancing as it appears to stand right now, this -shouldn't- be an issue.

I think Role Warfare is meant to stop this before it even becomes a problem, a proactive approach that I certainly appreciate.

Like I said, rampant speculation. For all I know this could blow up in their faces, and that would be mildly amusing to watch aswell.

[Steelo]

Aethon, on 11 June 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

I'm getting worried about the people who are worrying about people who are worrying about assault mechs.

Can i worry about you then?

Edit: Who will worry about me?

Edited by Steelo, 11 June 2012 - 11:25 AM.

[Devil Man]

I'll be honest with you. I'm just as worried that assault mechs will be useless as I am that they will be the go to mech of choice. It is imperative that each and every weight class have a role in combat. While it will definitely kill the fun if everyone is running around in an Atlas or a Stalker, it will be just as boring if we are all playing Shadowcats Online (ie...if medium mechs are the only practical mechs to use).

That said, this game is build for online play. So balance can be addressed with patches. So long as the devs are diligent, and I have no reason to believe they won't be, there shouldn't be an issue here.

[Gorith]

Steelo, on 11 June 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Can i worry about you then?

Edit: Who will worry about me?

I got your back...

Im worried about you as your worried about the guy who is worried about the people who are bothered by those bothered by the possible balance issues... time for an intervention sir...

come on someone join our now forming worry conga behind me

Edited by Gorith, 11 June 2012 - 11:35 AM.

[Tarquinn]

Kasseopea, on 11 June 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

Sorry, did i heard Marauder II ? IMMACHARGINMAHLAZOR

[UncleKulikov]

Why yes, this IS a Marauder II thread! Thanks for asking!

I'm not worried about assaults completely dominating. They are slower than a stack of bricks in a ditch.

Edited by UncleKulikov, 11 June 2012 - 01:42 PM.

[trycksh0t]

The only thing that worries me about teams of Assault 'Mechs is trying to figure out which back to shoot.

[Sierra19]

Everybody is worried about Assault Mechs seem to forget that some people, and not just BT vets, will not WANT to pilot a huge lumbering mech. If that were the case, why isn't everybody in WoT driving heavy tanks (IS-7's)? Why isn't everyone playing paladins (or whatever the OP class is now) in WoW? Why isn't everyone playing Sith Marauders in SWTOR? Why doesn't everyone play Superman/Lex Luthor archetypes in DC Universe online? Bigger is not always better, and some people may want to run around the battlefield zipping around in a light. Maybe they don't want the responsibility of leading an attack, so they choose a medium. Maybe they want to play artillery, so they choose a catapult. Maybe they want the "IN YOUR FACE!" style of a Hunchback. I'm sure there will be a description of the mech and what it's battlefield role is when you click on it, so that may steer people to one mech or another. Time will tell, but I don't think the worriers are giving the typical gamer much credit.

[Proteaus]

Obviously a smart assault driver is much better than one not so smart . I am sure we will see our share of suicide rushers .
Just like wot , thats how the kids play , banzai . Sometimes it seems like its a race to see how fast they can die, and face
it this is a free to play , so expect kiddies en mass.

[SeniCuna]

By all means Assaults shouldn't be the standard, or anything close.
You'd think you'd see fewer of them than anything else in a fight if you were to look at it from a practical standpoint. ( Save for maybe the famous / infamous Lyran scout lance, huh? ) It seems the forums / devs are heading in a similar direction. Everything should, and according to the Devs, will have it's place.
That said, I don't see the Assault class as weak / easy, or bad at all, it usually only seems that way because so many of the people piloting the biggest mechs don't know how to bring out the best in them.

I'm gonna be an Assault pilot, it's where I'm most comfy, but I don't think we will be seeing tons of them.

[Janus Wealth]

I always hear: Atlas!

The Highlander is the Mech you should fear...

[Corka]

A couple of things. Putting in a weight limit is not strictly balancing the weight classes. In previous Mechwarriors all this would mean is that those piloting the Assaults will have a field day slaughtering everyone who isn't. I made a thread about this too, because it is something that I want but it will really require some significant changes to the IP for it to work. I mean, really, the heavier mechs get significantly more armour, more firepower, and greater range. You could say that the assaults are especially vulnerable to LRMs, but all that means is that the best thing for taking out assaults is going to be an assault missile boat.

Funny that World of Tanks should get mentioned. Having a tier 10 and competing in clan wars I can definitely say that you will not expect to see a balanced force of light, medium, and heavy tanks. Typically you would see one medium as a scout, three artillery pieces, and all the rest as heavy tanks. Ironically having all your heavies as IS-7s used to be ideal, though a lot of teams have moved over to the T110 instead.

In matches when the entire goal is to just kill each other? Unless this game is fundamentally different to all other mechwarrior games, the Assault (and not the medium) will be the workhorse mech, with a few lighter mechs in support to fulfill some niche roles such as scouting.

I'm just not entirely sure how to fix this problem without any serious departures from the series. One option is to limit useful equipment to lighter mech classes, and introduce new ones. Maybe extend ECM to scramble enemy radars in addition to increasing lock time, for example, and only allowing it to be placed on light/medium mechs.

[AtomicArmadillo]

Janus Wealth, on 11 June 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

I always hear: Atlas!

The Highlander is the Mech you should fear...

Yes Fear Me in my immortal Highlander Assault Mech .You will have to hit it with a critical headshot to kill it.All kidding aside i will be in a Cataphract as soon as i can buy one.

Edited by AtomicArmadillo, 11 June 2012 - 03:48 PM.

[Shadowscythe]

Ghost Bear, on 11 June 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

The game is going to pull mechs from each weight class per match. You can pretty much bet on that.

You would always have the same amount of light/med/heavy/assaults.

If that is fully accurate then I don't have to worry about a full atlas game, but still all those people that want assault will want to use them, so they will have longer ques (if there are ques).

Hopefully it pulls from tonnage AND role..

Some people will be like "I want to scout with my heavy/assault" and there are going to be some people that want to be the assault commander just for the armor, even through they might not be fast enough to stay in com range.

If the server doesn't pull from tonnage AND role you could have 4 attack/defense of different tonnage (part of me hopes that they would probably lose otherwise the role thing isn't working as planned )

I am more worried about clashes of role and weight class combinations.
That and shortages of scout and commander role players.

Devil Man, on 11 June 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

I'll be honest with you. I'm just as worried that assault mechs will be useless as I am that they will be the go to mech of choice. It is imperative that each and every weight class have a role in combat. While it will definitely kill the fun if everyone is running around in an Atlas or a Stalker, it will be just as boring if we are all playing Shadowcats Online (ie...if medium mechs are the only practical mechs to use).

That said, this game is build for online play. So balance can be addressed with patches. So long as the devs are diligent, and I have no reason to believe they won't be, there shouldn't be an issue here.

"the go to mech of choice" is most likely going to be true unfortunately... A bunch of assault attack/denfese mechs are going to be waiting a while in ques (if there is an actual que that is, lol).....I won't be one of them I will be the one narc/tagging them or the one shooting the missile volley inbetween commander commands

One possible way to "balance" appeal of weight classes is to give more module slots to lighter weight mech and less modules the heavier your mech. And make sure new players know how important modules are while in game, not by website. But even that would be hard to balance gameplay wise.
Balance is HARD

Unfortunately 90% of all posts and replies on forums are speculation, including mine since I am not a Dev, or quoting one

Edited by Shadowscythe, 11 June 2012 - 03:57 PM.

[Lipot]

In previous MW computer/video games, I ended up using an assault while looking at my little Jenner/Owen sitting in the hanger begging to be used. Why? Because when I was not playing against other people, I needed to use the assault to win. Then to keep my counter-scout 'mech happy, I would jump online and kill scouts and play tag with assaults. Terrain was my friend. Having some Atlas/Annihilator/Daishi trying to track me and being a fool was fun. Until I forgot that I didn't help remove their fire support 'mech and watch my rear get chewed off by LRM's. We all know that some group is going to try to run all assault 'mechs, another group is only going to run "canon" 'mechs, and another group is going to try to uber fit their 'mechs. The rest of us will adapt and kill and have fun.

[colatruck]

How will Steiners scout if they can't field their scout lance

Edited by colatruck, 11 June 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[Janus Wealth]

AtomicArmadillo, on 11 June 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

Yes Fear Me in my immortal Highlander Assault Mech .You will have to hit it with a critical headshot to kill it.All kidding aside i will be in a Cataphract as soon as i can buy one.

Well, if there´s no Dervish then the Cataphract will be my Mech of choice too. I just thought that i have heard Atlas too often. As if it would be the only Assault-Mech...

[Xinaoen]

Here's the thing. With XL Engines and Endo Steel Internals, I can get a 50 ton Swayback to a max speed of 118.8 km/h without cutting armor or weaponry. I can make a Dragon run as fast as the stock Raven, or make a Raven move at over 150 km/h.

An Atlas will never go faster than 64.8 km/h - its speed with the biggest engine that a 'Mech can carry. The heaviest 'Mech that can get up to the next speed level is the Awesome at 80 tons, and an Awesome with a speed of 86.4 km/h will actually have less extra tonnage than a smaller 'Mech at the same speed. You can min-max to your heart's content, but Assault 'Mechs will always be ponderous but powerful bruisers.

[Endarius]

What actually terrifies me the most is the idea of a whole bunch of ultra light 'mechs with NARCs and tandem with a bunch of Atlases. Then you have the scenario of incredibly hard to hit wippersnappers that only need one clear shot to mark you for devastation at maximum range, and by the time you find whoever has been riddling you with LRMS you find out it's an Atlas, and he's got alot more choice now, because you are close.

[Janus Wealth]

Endarius, on 11 June 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

What actually terrifies me the most is the idea of a whole bunch of ultra light 'mechs with NARCs and tandem with a bunch of Atlases. Then you have the scenario of incredibly hard to hit wippersnappers that only need one clear shot to mark you for devastation at maximum range, and by the time you find whoever has been riddling you with LRMS you find out it's an Atlas, and he's got alot more choice now, because you are close.

Nah, i dont think so. The mayority of players seems to like mediums. So the ultra lights will get punched pretty fast by a horde of mediums. And if the mediums are not alone, the remaining big guys are fodder...
I only hope for BIG maps, so than speed advantage can be time-and-place-advantage.

Edited by Janus Wealth, 11 June 2012 - 04:56 PM.