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#1 mrDUDE

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 03:36 PM

Can you think of any time that a mech should take SHS instead of DHS?

#2 Royalewithcheese

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:04 PM

nope

#3 BoPop

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 10:12 PM

haven't yet, mastered 45ish mechs. haven't found some sneaky subtle build that gets away with them. it appears DHS is a must.

#4 Nothing Whatsoever

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 10:20 PM

One could almost get away with a SDR-5K or a COM-2D using SHS, but those can be built better with DHS.

And you could make a AWS-8Q with MLs and SHS, but that's not a good build to use with other custom loadouts currently available.

#5 Alaskan Nobody

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 10:09 PM

View PostPraetor Shepard, on 25 July 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:

One could almost get away with a SDR-5K or a COM-2D using SHS, but those can be built better with DHS.



3ssrm2
Tag
Endo
Ferro
Requires SHS.

could go for a Med Laser, but then you start running into heat issues - with a tag you do not.

Edited by Shar Wolf, 26 July 2013 - 10:09 PM.


#6 heleqin

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 09:15 AM

View PostShar Wolf, on 26 July 2013 - 10:09 PM, said:


3ssrm2
Tag
Endo
Ferro
Requires SHS.

could go for a Med Laser, but then you start running into heat issues - with a tag you do not.


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7e2469f4f01b5c4

nope, still works with doubles (which lets you run the MLas easily). there are a couple commando builds with endo and ferro and 2xSRM6 that do no have the space for DHS, these builds are usually sacrificing speed and engine size for tonnage though.

as a general rule, there are no good builds that do not include Double Heat sinks.

#7 POOTYTANGASAUR

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 09:17 AM

My 8LL swayback has standard heatsinks and a standard engine (dhs and xl are impossible to fit (literally impossible)).

#8 Alaskan Nobody

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 11:01 AM

View Postheleqin, on 27 July 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:


as a general rule, there are no good builds that do not include Double Heat sinks.


Could be I remembered wrong then - haven't been able to play for a while due to dead computer
-the general rule I never objected to though

However one of the big 'rules' I live by is that there are exceptions to every rule - even that one :D

#9 Elizander

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 11:25 AM

An Atlas with 2 ER PPCs and 46 SHS? Heat neutral on ice maps and still pretty spammy on desert maps. I didn't want to upgrade my X1 Cataphract so I just gave it an AC/5, 5 Medium Lasers and 30 SHS with a 280xl from my Ilya. Still overheats though. :D

#10 Goose

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 12:00 PM

There's, like, one build in the whole 'Vers that requires SSHSs, and something like three more that could get by without paying $1.5mCb for the upgrade …

#11 POOTYTANGASAUR

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 12:01 PM

DHS is an upgrade of SHS so why do you want SHS to be better? I can understand that you want it slightly better but since DHS are triple the size (slot wise) and have a 1.4x heat improvement they are less efficient (not counting engine HS). So there is no reason to make DHS less of an upgrade unless you plan on improving them when you improve SHS.

#12 JayKay17

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 12:13 PM

The upcoming Locust is the one example, that comes to my mind, where SHS might have use.
Even with the biggest engine you have to mount 4 additionaly HS extern on the chassis to get the minumum of ten.
So if you have an XL-Engine (6), 4 x DHS (12) , FF-Armor (14) and Endosteel (14), there are only 5 slots left, not much for equipment. You can forgo the FF-Armor (benefit is only half a ton) or use SHS instead of DHS. I probably will drop the FF Armor, but who knows, maybe I find a build where I need this extra half ton.

#13 New Day

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 12:17 PM

View PostPOOTYTANGASAUR, on 27 July 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

DHS is an upgrade of SHS so why do you want SHS to be better? I can understand that you want it slightly better but since DHS are triple the size (slot wise) and have a 1.4x heat improvement they are less efficient (not counting engine HS). So there is no reason to make DHS less of an upgrade unless you plan on improving them when you improve SHS.

Why? So as not have useless equipment in the game.

#14 Koniving

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 12:36 PM

View PostmrDUDE, on 25 July 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

Can you think of any time that a mech should take SHS instead of DHS?


Depends on how many you have.

Starts with DHS superior than SHS.

10 DHS
30 base capacity + 20 capacity = 50 capacity + as Lordred has deduced 0.14 cooling per second per heatsink starting from 0. 14 cooling per 10 seconds.

10 SHS
30 base capacity + 10 capacity = 40 capacity + 0.1 cooling per second per heatsink which is 10 cooling per 10 seconds.

From here it gets tricky.

20 DHS (10 from 250 engine, 10 from chassis)
30 base capacity + 20 capacity from engine DHS + 14 capacity from chassis = 64 capacity + 0.14 cooling per heatsink per second for 10 seconds for a rate of 28 per 10 seconds.

20 (10 from 250 engine, 10 chassis mounted) SHS.
30 base capacity + 20 capacity = 50 capacity + 0.1 cooling per second per heatsink which is 20 cooling per 10 seconds.

Fun? Wait until you get to 30 SHS versus 22 DHS.

#15 Stormwolf

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 12:37 PM

View PostmrDUDE, on 25 July 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

Can you think of any time that a mech should take SHS instead of DHS?


Sure, when a game is set in the 4th Succession War or the War of 3039 and people want to use era appropriate gear.

#16 MuonNeutrino

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 01:19 PM

I could see it on a spider SPD-5K or a locust LCT-1V. Both of those only have a single energy slot, and a large laser is only 1.65 heat per second long term. Even if you just hold down the trigger, it'd still take you almost a minute to overheat. Toss in even single basic efficiencies and I could see either of those working fine even with single heat sinks.

Honestly, though, 'these mechs have such horrible hardpoints that they can't mount enough weapons to overload even 10 SHS' isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. :D

#17 New Day

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 01:32 PM

View PostKoniving, on 27 July 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:


Depends on how many you have.

Starts with DHS superior than SHS.

10 DHS
30 base capacity + 20 capacity = 50 capacity + as Lordred has deduced 0.14 cooling per second per heatsink starting from 0. 14 cooling per 10 seconds.

10 SHS
30 base capacity + 10 capacity = 40 capacity + 0.1 cooling per second per heatsink which is 10 cooling per 10 seconds.

From here it gets tricky.

20 DHS (10 from 250 engine, 10 from chassis)
30 base capacity + 20 capacity from engine DHS + 14 capacity from chassis = 64 capacity + 0.14 cooling per heatsink per second for 10 seconds for a rate of 28 per 10 seconds.

20 (10 from 250 engine, 10 chassis mounted) SHS.
30 base capacity + 20 capacity = 50 capacity + 0.1 cooling per second per heatsink which is 20 cooling per 10 seconds.

Fun? Wait until you get to 30 SHS versus 22 DHS.

Did he deduce that with his superior reading skills? Because it was stated (although not explicitly) in the DHS post.

#18 Koniving

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 04:55 PM

View PostNamesAreStupid, on 27 July 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Did he deduce that with his superior reading skills? Because it was stated (although not explicitly) in the DHS post.

Actually testing. But thank you -- someone's been arguing with me on that claiming some really weird crap like different maps give you increased/decreased thresholds and weird crap that not even Paul Inouye could come up with. I've been looking for that!

#19 Zelumbras

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:44 AM

Only reason would probably be running a very specialized build using low heat ballistics with both endo and FF where weight and critical slots are more important than heat Efficiency. Like for example a SDR-5K (Gauss-Spider) or something similar. Other than that DHS are almost always considered the better choice.

Edited by Vulcan888, 28 July 2013 - 06:44 AM.


#20 Tesunie

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:04 AM

There is a Commando build that (from what I heard) can't use DHS without actually having to downgrade (I've never used such builds). I think it was a full SRM with ammo build... or was it Streak? Don't overly know, sorry.

I have several builds of mechs that do not require DHS and work just fine. I have a "Hollander 3" Cicada 3C. It has a Guass and a single Med Laser. The design has only ever had even a hint of a heat problem on Caustic, in the training grounds, with me shooting the weapons none stop for at least 3 minutes solid. In combat, I rarely keep an enemy in my sights for that long, have them live that long, and/or I don't live that long. Also, that was on Caustic. Any other map and I never overheat.

A Double Guass Jagermech also has no need for DHS, or at least my version didn't. (It had them from it's dual AC20 setup before, but it didn't need DHS to run.) Same with a Guass cat.

Most builds are improved by DHS. Some builds don't need DHS (the builds don't care if they have them or not), and even fewer still can't use DHS (some very specific light mech designs).

I would also like to point out, before I get blasted that DHS can improve the cooling even on a Guass design, that this thread is asking " Can you think of any time that a mech should take SHS instead of DHS?" Guass based designs do not get "improved" by DHS as they don't generate enough heat to even need DHS. They will run perfectly fine on SHS, saving you c-bills in the process.

Builds that probably don't need DHS to function (as in DHS actually would not make any difference to the mech):
- Spider 5K set up in default config. 4 MGs and a Med laser would not need DHS.
- Any "Urbie" design probably wont need it. (I'd have to check more before truly saying.)
- Any pure or near pure guass designs. (They only produce 1 heat when fired.)
- Mechs with SSRM primary designs. (I typically shoot my SRMs while my mech cool off, espesually when I haven't gotten the C-bills yet to upgrade to DHS.)
- LRM based mechs have minimal need for DHS. They can use them depending upon the loadouts, but I recall my Quickdraw (one I was using just to get the basics and elites done) which ran on SHS. If I was shooting my LRMs, I didn't overheat for a long time. When I shot my 4 med lasers, watch out. Did well enough with it...
- Any build where you like to see the steam rise from standing in water with SHS in your legs. ;)





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