46 replies to this topic

[Tesunie]

Elizander, on 27 July 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

An Atlas with 2 ER PPCs and 46 SHS? Heat neutral on ice maps and still pretty spammy on desert maps. I didn't want to upgrade my X1 Cataphract so I just gave it an AC/5, 5 Medium Lasers and 30 SHS with a 280xl from my Ilya. Still overheats though.

Kinda sounds like you have my Stalker situation there. I have a Stalker with 4 LRM5s and 6 med lasers. I think I have 30 som odd heat sinks (don't recall the count). Speed isn't an issue so I don't care what my engine size is, but it's one step away from max anyway. I don't want to change it over to DHS yet because of the cost, I'd have to remove Endo from it, convert to DHS, and then buy about 10-11 DHS for the mech. Gets a little pricy...

Upgrading to DHS on my Stalker gives me 10 extra total LRMs, largest engine size (one step higher), and a better heat efficiency of 0.04. In total, I did the math, and it improved my mech in a couple of ways by less then 10%. It's an improvement, but it's very small ones here or there compared to it's current load out. A lot of C-bills though if I was to try.

[Spiketail Drake]

I don't run DHS/Endo/FF on some mechs because I plan on selling them after finishing the basic skills. Adding DHS is a choice, the builds without DHS can still be good. My Blackjack runs fine on SHS, provided i don't spam both ML and both AC2's. My Jenner F doesn't run DHS either, because i don't want it to. It is going to be sold when basics are unlocked.

[Bront]

heleqin, on 27 July 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7e2469f4f01b5c4

nope, still works with doubles (which lets you run the MLas easily). there are a couple commando builds with endo and ferro and 2xSRM6 that do no have the space for DHS, these builds are usually sacrificing speed and engine size for tonnage though.

as a general rule, there are no good builds that do not include Double Heat sinks.

In theory, with SHS, you dump the ML for an extra ton of ammo (and maybe take a 200XL instead for a 3rd), otherwise you run out of ammo real quick.

[heleqin]

Bront, on 04 August 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

In theory, with SHS, you dump the ML for an extra ton of ammo (and maybe take a 200XL instead for a 3rd), otherwise you run out of ammo real quick.

the ammo is light, i could see dropping down to a 200 for a 2nd ton, though commandos are already slower than most other lights at max engine, don't want to drop the size too much, but honestly, if you can afford endo, ferro, and a tiny XL engine thats not worth using anywhere else, springing for DHS shouldn't be an issue.

[Joe Kid]

The Birds Of Lowtax (Goons) had a RS with 4 LL and a bunch of SHS that was super effective, but now that there is heat penalties this is no longer the case.

[MustrumRidcully]

JayKay17, on 27 July 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

The upcoming Locust is the one example, that comes to my mind, where SHS might have use.
Even with the biggest engine you have to mount 4 additionaly HS extern on the chassis to get the minumum of ten.
So if you have an XL-Engine (6), 4 x DHS (12) , FF-Armor (14) and Endosteel (14), there are only 5 slots left, not much for equipment. You can forgo the FF-Armor (benefit is only half a ton) or use SHS instead of DHS. I probably will drop the FF Armor, but who knows, maybe I find a build where I need this extra half ton.

With a build that requires 4 external heat sinks, if you pick DHS, you still get basically 6 free extra standard heat sinks that are normally worth 6 tons. Does Endo-Steel or FF give you 6 tons to work with?
Only if you have such a low-heat build that you really don't need more the equivalent of 10 SHS, say, using only 1 or 2 medium lasers and the rest machine guns.

[Krazy Kat]

Locust

Never overheats.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a2603b2d1252dee

Edited by Krazy Kat, 05 August 2013 - 04:31 PM.

[Bront]

heleqin, on 04 August 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

the ammo is light, i could see dropping down to a 200 for a 2nd ton, though commandos are already slower than most other lights at max engine, don't want to drop the size too much, but honestly, if you can afford endo, ferro, and a tiny XL engine thats not worth using anywhere else, springing for DHS shouldn't be an issue.

The only reason I suggested SHS was because you're out of crit slots. Still, 99% of the time, you're better off with DHS than SHS.

I'm running a commando with SHS right now only because I don't plan on keeping it once I finish with the basics, and DHS cost as much as the mech.

Edited by Bront, 06 August 2013 - 11:53 AM.

[Arc Viper]

Single heat sinks definitely have their use. I use SHS on my blackjack that runs nothing but UAC5s. Since I have already a slow heat buildup, a fast engine is all I need, so I can spend my points on other things (like AMMO).

It can be a niche market, but if you want a focused ballistics build, SHS are the way to go.

[Koniving]

Elizander, on 27 July 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

An Atlas with 2 ER PPCs and 46 SHS? Heat neutral on ice maps and still pretty spammy on desert maps. I didn't want to upgrade my X1 Cataphract so I just gave it an AC/5, 5 Medium Lasers and 30 SHS with a 280xl from my Ilya. Still overheats though.

46 SHS technically should be better than 23 DHS, when you consider how MWO's system works.
46 SHS = 46 capacity + 30 base = 76 capacity. + heat containment 10% * 2 = 91.2 capacity.
4.6/sec cooling + Cool run 7.5%*2 = 5.29/sec cooling.

23 DHS = 10*2.0 + 13*1.4 + 30 base = 68.2 capacity + heat containment 10% * 2 = 81.84 capacity.
3.82/sec cooling + Cool run 7.5%*2 = 4.393/sec cooling.

Clearly SHS is superior on paper in this regard according to PGI's official scale. But there's some sort of ninja nerf going on, because somehow SHS never gets the full capacity it's promised beyond 50. If you take the same build one with 23 DHS and one with 46 SHS, you will not get a lower percentage for your shot fired with the SHS, even though clearly 22 out of 91.2 should give you 21% and 22 out of 81.84 should give you 26.88%... assuming zero degrees celsius (Alpine, closest possible map), these are not the results you truly get.

The percentage out of the SHS is higher than that of the DHS, which should be the other way around.

Krazy Kat, on 05 August 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

Locust

Never overheats.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a2603b2d1252dee

Don't tell Paul. He'll find some way to make it overheat.

[Tesunie]

Koniving, on 06 August 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

Don't tell Paul. He'll find some way to make it overheat.

Guess I shouldn't mention to stand in a lava pool on Terra Therma while shooting your laser at the fly in your room... oh... too late...

Edited by Tesunie, 06 August 2013 - 07:15 PM.

[Elizander]

Koniving, on 06 August 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

46 SHS technically should be better than 23 DHS, when you consider how MWO's system works.
46 SHS = 46 capacity + 30 base = 76 capacity. + heat containment 10% * 2 = 91.2 capacity.
4.6/sec cooling + Cool run 7.5%*2 = 5.29/sec cooling.

23 DHS = 10*2.0 + 13*1.4 + 30 base = 68.2 capacity + heat containment 10% * 2 = 81.84 capacity.
3.82/sec cooling + Cool run 7.5%*2 = 4.393/sec cooling.

Clearly SHS is superior on paper in this regard according to PGI's official scale. But there's some sort of ninja nerf going on, because somehow SHS never gets the full capacity it's promised beyond 50. If you take the same build one with 23 DHS and one with 46 SHS, you will not get a lower percentage for your shot fired with the SHS, even though clearly 22 out of 91.2 should give you 21% and 22 out of 81.84 should give you 26.88%... assuming zero degrees celsius (Alpine, closest possible map), these are not the results you truly get.

The percentage out of the SHS is higher than that of the DHS, which should be the other way around.



Don't tell Paul. He'll find some way to make it overheat.

I can probably do some maths when I get home. My RS is always my SHS lab rat.

[MustrumRidcully]

Krazy Kat, on 05 August 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

Locust

Never overheats.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a2603b2d1252dee

No! Utterly broken! Nerf!

[Krazy Kat]

MustrumRidcully, on 08 August 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

No! Utterly broken! Nerf!

With one laser and 4 MG's it's already nerfed right out of the box.

[LordKnightFandragon]

So do SHS do nothing? I am messing around on my alt acct with a CN-9A and took it into the training grounds and noticed it's 2 SHS give it virtually zero heat dissipation. Takes like a minute to lose the heat gained from just a couple bursts from the 2 ML and LRM.

Whats the heat coefficient on SHS? 1? Cuz the 2 SHS on the thing give it a heat eff rating of 1. And yikes SHS suck...

And dayum is the Centurion sloooowww...the dang 85t Warhawk has the same speed rating as a 55t Medium...thats why I never liked IS stuff...its just sooo...inefficient...

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 17 June 2014 - 12:47 AM.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

The SHS increases your heat cap by 1 and adds 0.1 heat dissipation per second. Compared to an external DHS at 1.4 and 0.14 for those same stats. Your CN9-A there has a total of 10 SHS, so 1 heat per second dissipation and a cap of 40. It'll take 5 seconds to damp the heat generated by one ML.

Back in closed beta, during the days of repair&rearm, pretty much every machine used their stock engine or a larger STD. 64.8 was actually a respectable speed for anything bigger than a Jenner. Certainly made it interesting in a city brawl - walking round a corner to come face to face with 3 Atlantes and not have the speed to escape before they annihilated you. You'd just pray that they were running hot and didn't want to risk firing (yay SHS! ha).

[Celem]

I do use it in a few builds that like to jump in the river on Crimson or River Its the only real benefit for the chassis i own, only SHS fit in legs.

Edited by Celem, 17 June 2014 - 01:12 AM.

[BOWMANGR]

Arnold J Rimmer, on 17 June 2014 - 01:05 AM, said:

The SHS increases your heat cap by 1 and adds 0.1 heat dissipation per second. Compared to an external DHS at 1.4 and 0.14 for those same stats. Your CN9-A there has a total of 10 SHS, so 1 heat per second dissipation and a cap of 40. It'll take 5 seconds to damp the heat generated by one ML.

Back in closed beta, during the days of repair&rearm, pretty much every machine used their stock engine or a larger STD. 64.8 was actually a respectable speed for anything bigger than a Jenner. Certainly made it interesting in a city brawl - walking round a corner to come face to face with 3 Atlantes and not have the speed to escape before they annihilated you. You'd just pray that they were running hot and didn't want to risk firing (yay SHS! ha).

Posted just to award you +1 Internet for finally using the correct term for Atlantes.

On a more on-topic note, SHS exist for one and only one reason. It's a free 2 play gimmick that all F2P games have. They are a C-Bills sink. They aren't useful, they will NEVER be useful and that's the whole point actually. There is nothing to fix simply because they are "working as intended" TM. Just assume that all mech prices you see when shopping are 1.5 million C-Bills higher and never look back.

[qki]

You can get away with SHS on a low-heat build. Something like 2 AC5 2 ML. The dual gauss builds do not care about heat sinks at all.

If you have to choose, always choose DHS, although in some limited cases, you can skip the upgrade without much of a headache.

[Nova Latios Storm]

Yes...because you can't afford dubble heatsinks!