61 replies to this topic

[UnPh4ZeD]

evilC, on 29 October 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

Gonna call you out on this one.

There is nothing inherently wrong with H264.

It's the quality settings that matter - what method of H264 capture are you talking about? If it is a CPU-based system such as FRAPS, of course it is going to suck because it has to do it with as little CPU as possible, in real-time.

It is 100% possible to create a LOSSLESS video with H264, ergo your statement is false.

What appears to be lossless to your eyes is not at all lossless to an encoder. Compression = Lossy. H264 creates smaller files which is why some people prefer to record with it. When you take a video that has been recorded in H264, edit it in Vegas or Premiere, export it (encodes again as H264), and upload it to YouTube (encodes it to very low bitrate H264) you end up with a steaming pile of distortion. The file you send to YT needs to be as close to source as possible. You should send it through the H264 encoder as few times as possible to get that result.

If you want high quality HD content you should avoid recording in H264. Even with a 80,000 bitrate crf:<10 your video will look bad in busy scenes when it hits YT.

[evilC]

Lossless only has one meaning in video compression - if you decompress you get an identical file to what was put in.

H.264 can do lossless encoding - here is a whitepaper on it.

Here is a guide that is a little less technical.
Basically, set the "Quantizer" value to 0, enable "Constant Quantizer" and you get lossless encoding.

Edited by evilC, 30 October 2013 - 01:34 PM.

[badkilik]

I'm surprised at the amount of people who are crying about Shadowplay. The whole purpose of that chip was to have a compatibility function for project shield. You really could have opted for AMD but yet you choose Nvidia so its you own damn fault you bought the card. All these extras are free features Nvidia is giving you for being their customers. I dont see AMD doing anything like it. Tired of always seeing people cry about free stuff.

[evilC]

badkilik, on 30 October 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

I'm surprised at the amount of people who are crying about Shadowplay. The whole purpose of that chip was to have a compatibility function for project shield. You really could have opted for AMD but yet you choose Nvidia so its you own damn fault you bought the card. All these extras are free features Nvidia is giving you for being their customers. I dont see AMD doing anything like it. Tired of always seeing people cry about free stuff.

So a vendor can:

• Charge you to put a H264 chip on the board.
  
• Announce that the feature would ship in the box, but then fail to do so.

And you think I have no right to be unhappy about it?

Edited by evilC, 30 October 2013 - 01:33 PM.

[evilC]

TwitchTv Unph4zed, on 28 October 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

IMO recording directly to H264 is a bad idea for HD content as it will have to be re-encoded at least 2 more times before it hits viewers eyes. RAW RAW RAW.

Riiight.

You do realize that 1080p 60FPS video is 373.25 MB per second right?
Good luck recording much at 335 GB for a 15 minute match.

[badkilik]

evilC, on 30 October 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

So a vendor can:

• Charge you to put a H264 chip on the board.
  
• Announce that the feature would ship in the box, but then fail to do so.

And you think I have no right to be unhappy about it?

Heres a suggestion, move on to amd so I dont have to listen to your kind complain. End of story

[Veranova]

evilC, on 28 October 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

Not hugely impressed so far.

1080p only, no support for 16:10 resolutions - when playing in a 16:10 res such as 1920x1200, it re-sizes the image, giving an incorrect aspect ratio (Square boxes end up oblong).
60FPS only, 3.8GB per 10 minutes - not what I would call a decent level of compression.
Shadowplay is 10 mins only under win7, so you need to use manual recording mode to be guaranteed to get a whole match.


Not exactly what they were marketing.

Add to that a lack of Mic recording, for the same reasons, ultimately.
Hopefully we get the M2TS container back as an option and can set some of the quality settings ourselves.

Fingers crossed.

[UnPh4ZeD]

evilC, on 30 October 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

Riiight.

You do realize that 1080p 60FPS video is 373.25 MB per second right?
Good luck recording much at 335 GB for a 15 minute match.

373 MB/s??? Lagarith uses about 130 MB/s @ 1080P 60FPS. Not to mention you only need to record in 30fps (YouTube) unless you plan on doing slow motion scenes.

You can use whatever you prefer but I've tested it for myself many times and every time H264 fails to deliver. In-game text and textures becomes blurry during high motion scenes with H264 recordings (once they are uploaded to YT). Gameplay recorded with Lagarith and only passed through Premiere/Vegas do not suffer the same distortion. You have to keep in mind how aggressively YT transcodes videos.

[evilC]

Lagarith is not raw, it is lossless.
And yet you still persist with saying H264 is flawed.

TwitchTv Unph4zed, on 31 October 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

You can use whatever you prefer but I've tested it for myself many times and every time H264 fails to deliver. In-game text and textures becomes blurry during high motion scenes with H264 recordings (once they are uploaded to YT). Gameplay recorded with Lagarith and only passed through Premiere/Vegas do not suffer the same distortion.

Translation:
If I encode using lagarith in lossless mode, I get no loss of quality, but if I encode with H264 in lossy mode, I lose quality, therefore lagarith is superior.

Bzzt. Try comparing apples with apples before you write something off as inferior.

[Thor Dyrden]

TwitchTv Unph4zed, on 30 October 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

Compression = Lossy.

For that you are investing thousands of bugs in your streaming-setup you should know better

TwitchTv Unph4zed, on 30 October 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

The file you send to YT needs to be as close to source as possible. You should send it through the H264 encoder as few times as possible to get that result.

At least here I agree... though having really high quality (>50Mbit/s) h.264 as source for Youtube is better than most feasible alternatives and only adds minimal artifacts in YT-recompression. Since compared to what YT uses these are very high quality-settings as source.

[evilC]

Found a HUGE problem with Shadowplay.

The video files are 62.387 FPS.

Been trying to find out how to re-mux the video or something to fix this, but until I do, it is essentially useless.

[evilC]

TwitchTv Unph4zed, on 30 October 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

Compression = Lossy.

Thor Dyrden, on 01 November 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

For that you are investing thousands of bugs in your streaming-setup you should know better

Thor Dyrden, on 01 November 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

For that you are investing thousands of bugs in your streaming-setup you should know better

Heh, I had missed that one.
Man, that is mind-blowing. You are extolling the virtues of the Lagarith lossless codec, and you think all compression is lossy.
Plus, last time I checked, ZIP files are lossless.

[Thor Dyrden]

I'm using AviDemux to postprocess these files (need crop/resize, to match aspect ratio and some higher compression for upload).
There is also a filter for changing fps without stretching the video

Just tried Resample FPS filter to 30,00 fps. Result looks awfully jittered.

Edited by Thor Dyrden, 01 November 2013 - 10:11 AM.

[evilC]

Thanks Thor, will give it a go.

You seeing the same thing then? Not just me?

[evilC]

Got myself AVIDemux 2.6.6

When I try to open an Shadowplay MP4 file, it crashes.

Opens other MP4s just fine.

Any ideas?

[Thor Dyrden]

evilC, on 01 November 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

Got myself AVIDemux 2.6.6

When I try to open an Shadowplay MP4 file, it crashes.

Sorry - no.

Also using AVIDemux 2.6.6 (64bit) the whole afternoon now - processed three Shadowplay files several times (tweaking settings), without any problem.

Maybe codecs on your system messed up, outdated (I avoid installing unnecessary codecs where possible)?

[evilC]

Pretty fresh OS install here, so no add-on codecs installed.
Maybe I need to install a codec pack or something? What do you have installed?

I unticked OpenGL as mentioned on the download page, didn't help.

[evilC]

Ah, it seems it does not happen with all files, it only happens with one of my recordings. Just so happened to be the one that I used for testing. Maybe it got corrupted or something.

Edited by evilC, 01 November 2013 - 11:08 AM.

[evilC]

Hmm, making some progress here.

It seems that the timestamps for the various frames are not always at the correct point in time ("Variable Frame Rate")

For example, I ran one of the videos thru MediaInfo, and this is an excerpt:

Frame rate mode : Variable
Frame rate : 61.683 fps
Original frame rate : 60.000 fps
Minimum frame rate : 27.586 fps
Maximum frame rate : 115.830 fps

Edited by evilC, 01 November 2013 - 11:27 AM.

[NeoOne]

Greetings All,

Nice to know of the option for the GTX 600+ cards.

I guess I should look at updating my set of 550, oh well it is only money right.