140 replies to this topic

[Gunslinger2]

Learned pilot skills are one of the things i enjoy about MW4 Mercs online right now, took awhile to learn to manipulate the keyboard and mouse in order to execute a well timed jump over a crouched mech while firing down into his head at the same time hitting reverse so when you land your already turning towards him.
These are things you cannot "level up" to, you either play enough that you become comfortable with it, or you dont. Nothing can compare to player skills in the end.

Edited by =Gunslinger=, 10 November 2011 - 12:06 PM.

[PewPew]

Leveling skills is completely stupid for a skill based first person shooter. Unless the game is going to put in level brackets, which is still stupid for a low population game, every player should be subject to the same level of handicap.

Why reward better players with a smaller cone of fire? So new players have even more trouble getting a single kill?

[wpmaura]

if you dont want to skill up just pay $30 or what ever they end up choosing and max your character from the start.

[Gunslinger2]

wpmaura, on 10 November 2011 - 12:08 PM, said:

if you dont want to skill up just pay $30 or what ever they end up choosing and max your character from the start.

Just cos someone can buy a better mech, dont mean they can pilot it

[snowleopard]

They could also be implementing just simple things that most people take for granted. Let's say for instance, sway in the redicle. A newer pilot is going to have a hard time holding steady in a zoomed shot moving, and even veterans can get rocked (Missles are a *****.)

They could be simply implementing a -10% to reticule sway. Or perhaps modifiers to keeping mechs upright from heavy hits. Taking from MW3 you could get knocked on your ***. They could add small modifications that give your pilot better handling so you don't get tripped up as easy by heavy weapons.

These are skills that don't win rounds, but are significant in the ideal that a 'pilot' is getting better.

[wpmaura]

well in lines with the OP, as long as the lvling up is not rediculous, I am ok with it, but leveling up could also just mean unlocking tonnage of mechs.

lvl 1 - 25- 30

Lvl 2 30-35 etc.

of course instead of levels would prefer some type of rank, captain etc.

[Gunslinger2]

Question is, how will this apply to Merc units?
I can't see an all lights unit faring too well in the grand scheme of things.

[Halfinax]

You seem to also be overlooking the fact that the game is going to be f2p. By adding in RPG elements you give the player goals that they can see. The element of "I want that skill, or that next piece of equipment" or the frame of mind that "If I can just get that next level I will be more useful to my team." The grind that some of you seem to loathe keeps players coming back and if they keep coming back the community thrives and grows, which in turn grows the profits for the company, which means greater possibility for future games in the franchise.

If it's just player skill based then it turns the players that don't have previous experience or have hit their twitch limit away because they will always be out classed, and in turn the community shrinks and profits fall and the franchise fails.

In the end although I don't think it's the best thing I understand why these elements will be there, and how they will enrich the game, community, and franchise.

[snowleopard]

=Gunslinger=, on 10 November 2011 - 12:16 PM, said:

I can't see an all lights unit faring too well in the grand scheme of things.

When are you going to have a entire sever full of people only able to pilot lights?

[Halfinax]

wpmaura, on 10 November 2011 - 12:14 PM, said:

well in lines with the OP, as long as the lvling up is not rediculous, I am ok with it, but leveling up could also just mean unlocking tonnage of mechs.

lvl 1 - 25- 30

Lvl 2 30-35 etc.

of course instead of levels would prefer some type of rank, captain etc.

The developer's have already said this will not be the case. See the thread titled "Player Progression? Can you START as assault?" pg. 2 second post by Bryan Eckman.

[Gunslinger2]

snowleopard, on 10 November 2011 - 12:18 PM, said:

When are you going to have a entire sever full of people only able to pilot lights?

Thus the question of how it will work for Merc unit's.
Unless there's a "buy in" or something they would all start out "level1" pilots with the appropriate equipment.

[wpmaura]

Halfinax, on 10 November 2011 - 12:23 PM, said:

The developer's have already said this will not be the case. See the thread titled "Player Progression? Can you START as assault?" pg. 2 second post by Bryan Eckman.

If you pay for it. So its just like paying for level progression

[Odin]

Both system would be OK for me.
Wether your up on your own, pure 100% yourself - a simulation and your humble honest self/input.
Or the game is helping, or hindering you, as long as they not over do it, it'll be fine for me.
But I can absolutely understand ppl actually want to play this "alone" without stats.

It remains to be seen, like what its like to be;
Hope we see infos about this not too long down the road.

Edited by Odin, 10 November 2011 - 12:27 PM.

[Gunslinger2]

Either way they do it im still quite excited about the game.
11 yrs of playing MW4 online is great, but its time for something new.

[Halfinax]

=Gunslinger=, on 10 November 2011 - 12:23 PM, said:

Thus the question of how it will work for Merc unit's.
Unless there's a "buy in" or something they would all start out "level1" pilots with the appropriate equipment.

That still doesn't explain why they'd all have light 'Mechs.

[gregsolidus]

Cavadus, on 10 November 2011 - 10:26 AM, said:

My "pilot", I mean. Is anyone else really turned off by this?

Unlocking new equipment and mechs is fine by me; I certainly hope something like that exists.

But actually skilling up a pilot avatar? The thought of earning "+5 LRM Lock Speed" kinda makes me nauseous.

Shouldn't the skill component be left in the hands of the actual players? Learning the ins and outs of the mechs, the maps, objectives, et cetera.

Do we really want someone speccing into "Autocannon Range" or something like that?

Why not just go the World of Tanks route and let us plow through the technology advancement trees and leave the skill where it belongs (with the players themselves)?

1.Your speculations sound and most likely are gross exaggerations of what will occur.

2.Pilots can become more skilled in TT so why not here?Having your pilot be a ECM specialist doesn't harm the game in anyway.

3.The pilot and the player can,in fact, be two different people.Don't you find it slightly odd that your character can operate mechs of all weight classes and in engage in all modes of combat whether they be long range or electronic with the greatest of ease?

4.It adds some variety to a game that boils down to shooting things which,for most people,will lose its appeal after a while.In short it has a Pavlovian affect that artificially lengthens enjoyment.

5.This is a more subjective reason but it does add some more persistence to the universe.As the wars rage on and the years go by your raw recruit will become a formidable and well versed veteran instead of being the same guy you made a few months ago.

[Steel Spectre]

PewPew, on 10 November 2011 - 12:06 PM, said:

Leveling skills is completely stupid for a skill based first person shooter.

This is a sim, not an FPS. The prospect of turning it into an FPS is one of the reasons I actually like the skill idea.

[Owl Cutter]

I trust the developers to come up with something we will enjoy, since Piranha seems to understand that most of us want player (as opposed to player character) skill and choices to be the prime determinant in the outcome of an engagement.

I agree that there are a lot of things in the fiction that just aren't practical to represent in a game limited to a mouse & keyboard inputs. (which is the only realistic minimum to expect the vast majority of players to be using- though I am rather surprised that joystick support is not a foregone conclusion for a MW game) Here it becomes economically and technically necessary to have players handling weapons as directly as in most other games with weapons, rather than a more faithful representation of the intimate cooperation between the pilot, battlecomp, and DI net. I say economically mostly for gunnery: most players, especially ones not immersed in the lore, will be expecting to handle weapons like in an FPS game, perhaps with a heavy, deliberate feel- perhaps like Killzone 2 but cranked to 11 based on what I've read about it. (I have not played it myself, it's not my cup of tea.) I say technically mostly for piloting: our standard computer interface just isn't able to emulate the I/O functions of a neurohelmet and we will simply not be able to feel the acceleration of the 'mech.

Whether to let accumulated "XP points" be spent on bonuses is in my mind just a choice between leveling the field between newbies and veterans, versus allowing more ways to customise your cybernetic avatar to suit your own tastes and aptitudes. Both are important values to me, so unless Piranha and Infinite bork it, I'll be happy with whatever balance between them we end up with. If my player character has little impact on 'mech performance, it will feel like an unrealistically simplified 'mech piloting sim. If my PC has a lot of impact, it will feel like I'm playing as the voice in some poor shell-shocked mechwarrior's head, or a possessing ghost or something. That would be optimal for me, since it would end up being much more like what piloting a 'mech is described as being like in fiction; "back seat driving" of a mostly autonomous avatar of war.

[omega5 9er]

We don't know how the pilot leveling will work, or if there will be one yet. So just don't let speculation get out of hand on this subject just yet.

[MaddMaxx]

Skill Trees have a side effect that is often difficult to over come. Every Tree has a BEST Selection Set. Even when you sub-divide the Trees by Weight Class, those BEST pick list always emerge and after a time, those new come in knowing them, from reading up on the Forums and those who learned the hard way, in on day one, will want a Re-Do for their Pilot as they now know what they selected as a Skill Set is inferior to some other combination.

Preventing the Whole I need a Re-Do scenario 3 months on is the Key, or allow Skills to be swapped in and out without a lock-down and make the ability to switch out Point based. if you selected, "Better Coolant Vest" for X amount of points, then to switch it out you have to replace it with a X point Skill while forfeiting the first paid for X points.

I do agree in Principle with the "I am the Pilot" thought process so this should be interesting to see unfold as the Wednesdays go by.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 10 November 2011 - 12:40 PM.