140 replies to this topic

[Catamount]

It's funny that the OP mentions World of Tanks, because in World of Tanks, you DO level up skills, as another poster noted

Your tank crews gradually grow to give you greater capability in loading, radio operation, gunnery, and driving, and later, in stealth, repair rate, and one other I don't recall.


I'm rather indifferent myself. If they implement something analogous to WoT crew skill, then they do. It'll be another dimension to the game, and the WoT system is somewhat subtle and relatively quick to level up (effectively just enough to create a short crew-skill curve on each new tank, one that takes a few days to a few weeks to top out at). If they don't implement any such system, then that's fine too.


This isn't going to remotely make or break this game.

[Halfinax]

wpmaura, on 10 November 2011 - 12:25 PM, said:

If you pay for it. So its just like paying for level progression

They have at no point said you'd have to pay to have access to any class of 'Mech from the start.

[Cavadus]

omega5-9er, on 10 November 2011 - 12:37 PM, said:

We don't know how the pilot leveling will work, or if there will be one yet. So just don't let speculation get out of hand on this subject just yet.

Quote

Q. Will MechWarrior® Online™ have persistent character content such as leveling or upgrades?
A. Yes. One of the customizations in MechWarrior® Onine™ is to train your pilot to suit your play style. Pilots will bring their efficiencies to whatever BattleMech® they get in.

Link.

[terminator]

As much as I understand what the op wants, I have no problem with skills. This game is for a wide audience, not just people who live and breath btech. The average consumer wants to be able to have a reward for the time they are putting in the game, if they don't have that, then why are they grinding away in the game? The multiplayer market nowadays is like this, there aren't any Unreal tournament and Quake 3 Twitch only based games coming out like that anymore, it all about the skill and the perks you grind your time away to get.. "Skills" is one of the easiest ways to give a person that reward. Now it remains to be seen what these skills are and how they will be implemented.

[Cavadus]

terminator, on 10 November 2011 - 12:44 PM, said:

The average consumer wants to be able to have a reward for the time they are putting in the game, if they don't have that, then why are they grinding away in the game?

Better/more equipment and mechs?

Surely you don't think it's just all going to be handed to you for free?

[Odin]

MaddMaxx, on 10 November 2011 - 12:39 PM, said:

Skill Trees have a side effect that is often difficult to over come. Every Tree has a BEST Selection Set. Even when you sub-divide the Trees by Weight Class, those BEST pick list always emerge and after a time, those new come in knowing them, from reading up on the Forums and those who learned the hard way, in on day one, will want a Re-Do for their Pilot as they now know what they selected as a Skill Set is inferior to some other combination.

Preventing the Whole I need a Re-Do scenario 3 months on is the Key, or allow Skills to be swapped in and out without a lock-down and make the ability to switch out Point based. if you selected, "Better Coolant Vest" for X amount of points, then to switch it out you have to replace it with a X point Skill while forfeiting the first paid for X points.

I do agree in Principle with the "I am the Pilot" thought process so this should be interesting to see unfold as the Wednesdays go by.

Greetings MaddMaxx!

Perhaps we just "level up" in what we are actually doing?
No, skill tree but "exercise" in specific skills, used by the player?

[Halfinax]

Cavadus, on 10 November 2011 - 12:45 PM, said:

Better/more equipment and mechs?

Surely you don't think it's just all going to be handed to you for free?

That's just speculation on your part. Separate factual information from your fears. It sounds like they are going for more of a skill set grind.

[omega5 9er]

Cavadus, on 10 November 2011 - 12:43 PM, said:

Link.

Yeah. That vague answer explains everything. Sure.
No. We don't know anything about the leveling. It can be a tree of abilities like an RPG, or it could simply be "use this tactic and you get points put into this percentage of how well you can perform this action."
I've seen the FAQ so don't try to be a smart *** responding with a vague answer that was given just to let people know there will be "progression."

[Cavadus]

Halfinax, on 10 November 2011 - 12:47 PM, said:

That's just speculation on your part. Separate factual information from your fears. It sounds like they are going for more of a skill set grind.

So you actually believe all equipment and mechs will be given to you the moment you install the game on the HD?

LOL

omega5-9er, on 10 November 2011 - 12:50 PM, said:

Stuff.

You said we didn't even know if any type of leveling/skill system would exist. That FAQ explicitly confirms that one absolutely will.

I would prefer one didn't.

Edited by Cavadus, 10 November 2011 - 12:54 PM.

[Halfinax]

Cavadus, on 10 November 2011 - 12:52 PM, said:

So you actually believe all equipment and mechs will be given to you the moment you install the game on the HD?

LOL

That's not what I said either. I assume that you will be buying 'Mechs with in game currency that you earn through battles, and that is more in line with what the developer's have said than what you are saying.

[Barantor]

terminator, on 10 November 2011 - 12:44 PM, said:

As much as I understand what the op wants, I have no problem with skills. This game is for a wide audience, not just people who live and breath btech. The average consumer wants to be able to have a reward for the time they are putting in the game, if they don't have that, then why are they grinding away in the game? The multiplayer market nowadays is like this, there aren't any Unreal tournament and Quake 3 Twitch only based games coming out like that anymore, it all about the skill and the perks you grind your time away to get.. "Skills" is one of the easiest ways to give a person that reward. Now it remains to be seen what these skills are and how they will be implemented.

There are games coming out that are only twitch based, but more and more are including a 'leveling' or some other system that gives you something besides K/D ratio to chase after (see also: the carrot).

You have to offset the lore of the world as well, these mechs aren't the super new clan mechs that come later but old worn out mechs, many of whom are passed down from father to son etc. There could be cones of fire for the mech that could be brought down by 'pilot' skills that offset the cone, just like WoT crew skills.

It can also give lockouts to certain mechs. Lets say you like your assaults and have a Zeus but have been eyeballing that Longbow and all its missile boat goodness.... So you take some skills in missile usage and maybe some lock-on type of skill to be able to both unlock the use of the Longbow itself and be able to fire its weapons effectively.

[gregsolidus]

I haven't seen you refute my valid points yet.

[Cavadus]

Halfinax, why does nothing you post ever make any sense?

[Technoviking]

I completely agree Cadaver. Lets hope that they make a game that is SO complex, the man behind the joystick can HIMSELF level up. Quite like MW4. The difference between a vet and a new player is vast, because there is a lot to learn. A lot to trick out. Leagues were made of legendary players, who's names were known because of their skill.

Unfortunately for us, there is a caliber of gamer, who loves Achievements, (cheevos!) and unlocks. We want them to play too. So, you and I and Paingod can all say "Skill is Skill". But it would be irresponisble to the bottom line for MWO devs to ignore players who love unlocking things and achievements and skill trees. This isn't the same world that MW2-4 was made in.

So, especially in a Online games, unlocks and achievements are coming, and it looks like maybe even skill trees. So how the heck do we keep the Devs AWAY from the skill button, yet still have unlocks? It can't be all cosmetic? Maybe off world perks? More CBills, bigger stables faster jumpships, faster repairs... all those things outside the battlefield. That's one way.

It certainly looks like the devs might be taking the BattleTech "Pilot and Gunnery Skill" to heart though, and as much as I love BattleTech, that makes me sad. Make a game that so complex, that I can get better at. Not that I unlock "better at it." Please.

[Halfinax]

Cavadus, on 10 November 2011 - 01:14 PM, said:

Halfinax, why does nothing you post ever make any sense?

What is this adding to the conversation?

[UncleKulikov]

I definitely don't want skill trees with skill points, anything like DND or Diablo, or world of warcraft.

The pilot progression should be almost entirely back end, with very subtle improvements in player performance over time. Any "awards" should be for reaching milestones, like x amount of LRM kills, x number of limbs blown off, etc.

If you are flat out better than the other person, relative levels shouldn't matter. And once you are at the progression cap, there is still the difference in actual pilot skills.

Edited by UncleKulikov, 10 November 2011 - 01:36 PM.

[rollermint]

Cavadus, on 10 November 2011 - 12:43 PM, said:

Link.

You or any of us still don't know what exactly these skills will affect. For all we know, it only unlocks access to certain weaponry, equipment or mech types.

The way I see (and hope it will be), a pilot who wants to go into the recon line will be able to "skill" up to access the MASC and ECM systems, for example. Even if it does go down into the route of "faster locking time" or "Mech Speed", World Of Tanks already have that and in no way does it breaks the game.

[TheRulesLawyer]

wpmaura, on 10 November 2011 - 12:08 PM, said:

if you dont want to skill up just pay $30 or what ever they end up choosing and max your character from the start.

They've specifically said you won't be able to buy skill, it will be earned.

[Orzorn]

If they are going to have skills/perks, they should do them in a logical fashion. My pilot being good at something will not do something stupid like "Autocannons now do 15% more damage", but it COULD do something like "While piloting assault mechs, *some list of weapons* no longer cause your reticule to move.", which would represent your character being able to compensate for the knock of those weapons on your aim, whereas my first example makes no sense. Who does a pilot being skilled allow his weapons to do more damage?

I'll just post my old post from 2010 on the Mektek forums about perks:
Here's an idea:
You should not have 1 experience bar for levels, but 4; One for each mech type. This would force players to specialize and really go along with what Weisman was saying about "getting better at using your type of mech." As you play more games, you get more and more unlocks for whatever type you picked and also inherently get better at playing those types of mechs. This allows a degree of specialization.

Another idea is to also have a sort of "talent tree". This would be minor perks that you could pick such as "Hawk Eye: You gain an additional 1.0x zoom to your zoom function." (so a player with this would go from whatever is the normal zoom, probably 2.0x, to 3.0x). This is a good example of a perk that isn't extremely powerful, in fact, it does literally nothing to affect ones damage, but it still adds something unique and useful, and would be helpful for both scout oriented mechs AND for long range support mechs and anything in between that likes to see what they're shooting at.

As I said, these talents would not be some sort of ridiculous overpowered perks (like in MW2), but little nudges here and there to create, overall, an interesting piloting experience. Just for fun I'm going to post another example of one such talent: "Seasoned Navigator: If your navigation systems are destroyed, they instead revert to an extremely simplified version." I think this, too, is a great example of a talent that is both cool AND doesn't really actually DO anything as to be powerful. The idea is simple in the lore: Your navigation systems are destroyed, yet you, as the pilot, are a seasoned navigator and can navigate manually. This, once again, would be good for scout mechs and fighter mechs alike.

And, just for fun again, I'll just stick another in here: "Last Laugh: If one of your probes would be destroyed or otherwise rendered inoperable, it instead flies at the offender and explodes upon impact. Can be destroyed in-flight." Once again, doesn't actually allow the pilot to do more damage (at will), nor is it something insanely overpowered, yet it is fun and unique. Imagine a scout mech releasing a probe, getting a good view of the field, and having an enemy mech pop some rounds at the probe. They silently chuckle when it starts to burn, then realize its plummeting right towards them. It erupts into the cockpit, exploding and killing the pilot. Probes get the Last Laugh. (of course, this is hyperbole. The probe would have to get really really lucky in order to hit the cockpit. I just like making up fun stories to get my ideas across)

[Spinoza]

No way, no soft skills.

I'd rather get pwned because I'm old and I left my lightning fast reflexes in the previous millennium rather than win even a single match because I have some arbitrary advantge.