22 replies to this topic

[Pastor Priest]

With what we know about CW. it seems like a good idea to join a house. However, I'm not certain on which one to join. I wasn't a reader of the books, nor did I participate on the TT stuff. I cut my teeth on MW2, and wound up playing MW2 Mercs and MW4. So, I read up on Sarna to figure out which house fit me the best.

I like the Fed Suns for the good guy image, and the fact they are kind of the powerhouse of the IS. Also, I understand they like dakka, so we have something in common. However, not a huge fan of the monarchy system.

That aside, I'd like to know, why join Davion? Or more specifically, why join you?

FYI, I'm also looking at Marik and FRR.

[Zakie Chan]

Well Davion's arent always the good guys. But in the series of wars after Stefan Amaris first upset star league there is no true good guy side.

That said, The Federated Commonwealth (Davion - Steiner Alliance) endures for another 7 years. Until Victor's younger sister gets too big for her Lyran-Federated Suns britches and wants a grab at power. With a flower bomb and a series of deft political moves destroys everything her mother and father worked toward, most notably her own mother.

Despite the dissolution of the Innersphere's strongest alliance, (at the time) Victor plays a major role in ensuring the first offensive against the clans.

If youre looking for a house with a moral backbone and the balls to back it up look no further than the Federated Suns.

Of course you could always align with the independent FRR and watch the clans ravage your worlds to the breaking point... Then again with the Marik's being led by a DNA confirmed Illegitimate, what do you have to lose?

Theres always the subversive/Insane Capellan's or the rigid to a fault Kuritans. The Dragon is a mighty state but until it fell to younger and more wise leadership ignored everything except for the strict code of Bushido.

In case you don't quite yet feel Davion Pride, Remember the decisive result of the 4th succession war and the gains the FedComs made.

The FedSuns know how to put talent to use, sign up today!

[BigTrak]

A most excellent summary Zakie

[Milocinia]

Almost brought a tear to my eye.

[Dalziel Hasek Davion]

Well, your choice of acceptable political system seems rather limited if you are looking at any of the Great Houses. If you don't like a constitutional monarchy, perhaps a Military junta, dictator-for-life, communist state, or industrial oligarchy would be preferable? They all end up with one extended family "ruling" large numbers of planets (many of which are democratically run in the Federated Suns).

At least in the Federated Suns we have a free press, democratic planetary government and well-established welfare systems for planets that are pre-industrial or have suffered extremes of hardship as the result of war. The AFFS is one of the finest (and well supplied) of the armies of the Inner Sphere. We have no truck with pirates and bandits, have a lingering dislike of the Houses that have used ******** of civilian populations (remember Kentares) or terrorist tactics to achieve their political aims. The Davion family have (with a few notable exceptions) led the realm well - invested in education (NAIS and other universities), industrialisation and defense.

I am proud to serve in the AFFS and to be a citizen of the Federated Suns. You would be welcome here.

(editor's note. -I did not use a swear word above - just a technical term that means the death of a large number of people which, apparently, is a banned word)

Edited by Dalziel Hasek Davion, 28 August 2013 - 08:40 AM.

[Hillslam]

and yet... Marik bird

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I guess the real answer, in terms of playing for a house, depends on how they roll out CW.

Who you may fight against, what mechs are preferred, are there any house specific quirks, etc.

A Higher number of players may seem to give you an advantage on house benefits as they've been described in PGI's description of CW but who knows.

Lore wise the FRR gets devastated by the clans due to their location. MArik and Liao don't have much involvement with them. Davion gets drawn in because of their association with house Steiner and the Lyrans.

And its Kurita and the Lyrans that fight the clan flanks with the power to do so.

Who knows how CW will operate, but if they go by borders, who you pick may decide who you fight primarily.

Edited by Hillslam, 28 August 2013 - 09:22 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

As for why one might want to affiliate/ally with the FedSuns, specifically:

• Culturally, the Federated Suns is based on an Anglo-American model - in many ways, it is a lot like a mish-mash of the old British Empire, the current Commonwealth of Nations, and the modern United States (which, if that is or is close to one's real-world cultural affiliation, can provide a sense of comforting familiarity).
  
• As a result - and especially in contrast to the likes of the Capellan Confederation and the Draconis Combine - the Federation represents a generally more "open" and liberal society - to the point that the leadership is publicly criticized and challenged by the media without undue worry of being snatched out of their homes and offices at any hour and ending up with a 9mm third eye or a sudden case of headlessness .
  
• Given the combination of the Suns' mostly-British social model and the Davion family's ultimately-French heritage (traceable to a region in southwest France called Gascony, as well as the Counts of Foix), the AFFS MechWarriors are typically depicted as filling a role analogous to that of (usually, the romanticized version of) the Western European knight.
  
• Moreso than the other realms, the FedSuns is usually depicted as being interested in the recovery and development of non-military technologies (as well as military technologies, of course).
  
• The AFFS tends to have a fixation - almost to the point of obsession - and an affinity for the autocannon.
  
• The FedSuns was the only nation to respond favorably to the Lyrans' proposal to try to reunite humanity under a common banner - the result was the formation of the Federated Commonwealth.
  
• The current head of state, Hanse Davion, is basically what one would call a "magnificent b*****d". As an example, he addressed the most vocal critic of the Suns' nationwide education program (one Robin DeCaster) by making her the Minister of Education; "Now she is the one responsible for the government’s education policy and she’s the one forced to defend herself against the critics. It’s a beautiful example of how to handle your opponents."
  
• Also, the FedSuns is the home nation of the company that developed the Marauder - the Greatest BattleMech of All Time.

Though, it's not as though the FedSuns is without its own problems - the education system and technological prowess begins to become less prevalent and effective as one moves away from the largest population centers (to the point that some whole worlds might more closely resemble the stereotypical later-19th or early-20th century American South than what one might expect of a 31st century interstellar federation).


Literature-wise, the FedSuns occasionally comes off as "the White Knight faction" and/or "the Mary-Sue/Gary-Stu faction" - in those instances, FedSuns characters can be portrayed as arrogant, haughty, overly self-righteous, and even outright bland.

Edited by Strum Wealh, 28 August 2013 - 09:50 AM.

[GizmoGecko]

Only reason I chose Davion was because I usually enjoyed playing the Mechwarrior 4 Campaign supporting them, that and the government description given on the faction seemed okay compared to the others.

Saying that, below are my favourite 'mechs.

1. Dragon
2. Awesome
3. Kintaro
4. Spider
5. Victor
6. K2-pult only

If the faction warfare restricts your choice of 'mechs or even buffs them in ways, then I'll probably switch to Kurita: I can't play without my Dragons.

Edited by GizmoGecko, 28 August 2013 - 09:51 AM.

[Zarlaren]

I say you can be allowed to pilot all mechs but perhaps give a small buff to the ones of the house your in leaving others untouched or you can possible try to assimulate mechs to a house that a pilot favors I'm finding i'm now liking the Jenner and using the poptarting tactic or harrassing a enemy with a few shots before taking off to do something else. Possibly like favor points like one per mech that would allow you to use a out of house mech to favor your house which could be earned by gaining your house's trust.

But it would be better for the first option just give slight house buffs of house mechs.

My favorite mechs are.

Lights- Jenner,Commando.
Mediums- Hunchback,Cicada.
Heavy- Catapult.
Assault- Atlas,Victor,Awesome,Stalker. ( Yet to come is Mauler just like the way it looks.)

Edited by Zarla, 28 August 2013 - 11:31 AM.

[Hebdomas]

My understanding (unless they since changed it) is that there won't be restrictions on what Inner Sphere mechs you can own, however based on how common or uncommon a mech is for your faction you may see a price decrease or increase.

[ColdHeat]

I wish such a thread would exist for every faction. As someone who has never played battletech before, nor read the books you really struggle hard to see through over 25 years of battletech history to get a clear view on all the important information to really chose the faction that suits you the most.. and not regret it a few weeks or months later when some new information suddenly makes a different house more attractive.

Despite all the wikis, data bases and the battletech universe guide.. it really helped to read how davion followers point out their reasons why they feel attracted to their house and have chosen it out of all the others - as well to explain its character and values to newcomers. After reading what you guys wrote i feel a lot more attracted to the Federated Suns than i ever had been before. Thanks for that.

[Void Angel]

Pure theme - and I don't mean all the extraneous stuff in various novels. Each of the Great Houses has their own flavor: Kurita has bushido; Steiner has more money than sense; Liao is sneaky; Marik has civil wars - and Davion has tactics. I picked Davion for my faction simply because I like that style more than the other houses.

Before anyone asks, the Clans don't have style. They're ridiculously idealized space {Godwin's Law} who're only beatable because they're too noble for us lesser beings - and because of the other space {Godwin's Law} who decide to help us. Glee. Golfclap; now go play something with elves in it...

[Pastor Priest]

Well, I think I am interested. I might see about dropping by your TS soon, if I can.

[Strum Wealh]

Void Angel, on 28 August 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Before anyone asks, the Clans don't have style. They're ridiculously idealized space {Godwin's Law} who're only beatable because they're too noble for us lesser beings - and because of the other space {Godwin's Law} who decide to help us. Glee. Golfclap; now go play something with elves in it...

I would contend that, just as the FedSuns is essentially "Space Britain" and the DracCom is essentially "Space Japan" and so on, the Clans collectively represent the "great conquering hordes" and/or the "(romanticized) noble savages" of the past (e.g. the Mongols under Genghis Khan, the Macedonians under Alexander III, the Visigoths under Alaric I, and so on), while each Clan individually represents a separate society - the Ghost Bears are generally thought to be Scandinavian (like the FRR, with whom they later merged) and modeled in the spirit of the (romanticized) Vikings, the Smoke Jaguars would represent (stereotypes of) the warrior tribes of Africa's past (perhaps, specifically, the Zulu Kingdom), the Nova Cats could have been modeled on (stereotypes of) Native American societies (with the Wanapum, Cheyenne, and/or Sioux likely serving as primary inspirations), the Jade Falcons could represent the pre-Empire Mongols (especially given their adoption of the so-called "Mongol Doctrine" - arguably more of a "Cimmerian Doctrine", in practice - during the reign of Malvina Hazen), and so on.

Thoughts?

[BigTrak]

Pastor Priest, on 28 August 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

Well, I think I am interested. I might see about dropping by your TS soon, if I can.

Hey Pastor, swing by and get some drops in mate. House Davion TS3 address is in my sig. There are a number of Davion Units living there (but not all) with a mix of sizes and cultures. C4 defo fits in the more casual end of the sprectrum.

To everyone else, thanks for all the contributions, it's been a really interesting read.
+1 to all

[Void Angel]

Strum Wealh, on 28 August 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

I would contend that, just as the FedSuns is essentially "Space Britain" and the DracCom is essentially "Space Japan" and so on, the Clans collectively represent the "great conquering hordes" and/or the "(romanticized) noble savages" of the past (e.g. the Mongols under Genghis Khan, the Macedonians under Alexander III, the Visigoths under Alaric I, and so on), while each Clan individually represents a separate society - the Ghost Bears are generally thought to be Scandinavian (like the FRR, with whom they later merged) and modeled in the spirit of the (romanticized) Vikings, the Smoke Jaguars would represent (stereotypes of) the warrior tribes of Africa's past (perhaps, specifically, the Zulu Kingdom), the Nova Cats could have been modeled on (stereotypes of) Native American societies (with the Wanapum, Cheyenne, and/or Sioux likely serving as primary inspirations), the Jade Falcons could represent the pre-Empire Mongols (especially given their adoption of the so-called "Mongol Doctrine" - arguably more of a "Cimmerian Doctrine", in practice - during the reign of Malvina Hazen), and so on.

Thoughts?

An interesting thought, particularly about the Noble Savage stereotyping. To be honest, I never really read a lot of the books and "lore." I didn't have a player group for Mechwarrior/BattleTech, so I drifted away from the whole thing sometime after Solaris VII, and never even heard of all the non-invader Clans. The trouble is that no matter which Clan Adjective Animal you're looking at, there's some things about their "society" that are very troubling to a student of political science - no matter how hyper-idealized the Clans are.

See, the Clans have a very authoritarian culture, and one focused on warfare. They have to have conflict in order for the members of their warrior culture to gain the accolades they're raised from infancy to crave. Of course, the "rigid honor code" of the Noble Savages Clanners keeps the constant bloodletting to a minimum, right? Well, kinda not. The Clans certainly have all these honor codes and customs built up around war, but what keeps them from eroding? If someone steps too far across the line, the other Clans will annihilate them, certainly - but what keeps people from pushing the grey areas until the whole fabric of their honor system falls apart? What driving force binds the Clans together in their centuries-long warfare?

The Inner Sphere.

The Clans need the Inner Sphere. The Inner Sphere provides a semi-religious justification for the Clan's entire existence; it provides a practical justification for the domination of Clan culture by its warrior caste; it provides a way to limit and focus that aggression along safe avenues - and it justifies the authoritarianism of general Clan culture by providing it with the goal of "freeing" "holy Terra." Without the Inner Sphere as a focus (either as an enemy to fight or as a Star League to reconstitute) the Clans lose the regulatory force which holds their artificial "culture" together. This is why the Clans' defeat at Tukayyid was the best thing that could ever happen to them - it literally saved them from annihilation.

See, the Star League is a democratic ideal, and one the Clans no longer grasp. I'm sure, given the ridiculous idealization of their society, that there's some pseudo-democratic governance in some of the books - but that's just a surface feature. Clan government is determined by naked force - since a Trial of Refusal can be enacted to challenge any decision. Now, to be sure, there are practical limitations to that system; a Trial declared in support of an unpopular position may find the initiator faced with overwhelming force. But this doesn't ensure a liberalistic form of government - it ensures government via armed camps, with military power as the overriding source of influence. If the Clans would have succeeded in their initial bid at conquest, they would have degenerated into civil war very quickly.

In the final analysis, the Clans use nationalist socialism as their political-economic system - and that kind of authoritarian government needs an enemy to fight. If the Clans ever conquered the Inner Sphere, they'd lose that enemy. This would require the various Clans' warrior castes to turn on each other - but without the need to overcome an external enemy, the religious fervor with which they regard their twisted ideal of the Star League will turn against them. Warfare would quickly spiral out of control - and the Clans lack the Inner Sphere's taboos against the destruction of infrastructure. It would be the Succession Wars all over again, but fought with far superior weaponry than the old Star League possessed, and motivated by the same semi-religious fervor which had united the Clans for hundreds of years.

[Pastor Priest]

BigTrak, on 29 August 2013 - 12:56 AM, said:

Hey Pastor, swing by and get some drops in mate. House Davion TS3 address is in my sig. There are a number of Davion Units living there (but not all) with a mix of sizes and cultures. C4 defo fits in the more casual end of the sprectrum.

To everyone else, thanks for all the contributions, it's been a really interesting read.
+1 to all

Sounds like my place to party! I tend to be a bit more casual in my play.

To everyone else, thank you for your contributions. You definitely swayed my vote!

[ErikModi]

The Clans bear more from ancient Sparta than anywhere else. Their whole training regime is best summed as "Sink or swim. . . here's your rock." If you are inferior, you are culled.

I like the Federated Suns because, as was mentioned, they are the freest of the Inner Sphere nations, most like what a 20th-21st century person would be able to identify with. They have had their Magnificent ******* moments, but so has everyone else. . . BattleTech is really a grey-and-grey morality world. All of the Houses are pretty much run by "royal families," so that complaint is valid where ever you go. Except the Clans, but they're a meritocracy, where the merit is skill as a warrior, and if you aren't a warrior, well, sucks to be you.

[IllCaesar]

Strange, I was under the impression that House Steiner was the nation with the most freedoms, and that Davion was a close second, which was why I chose Steiner.

That, and I'm a noobie who needs an Atlas to be any decent

Spoiler

JK

I need four Atlas'. One to pilot, one to use as cover, and two to carry all of my money.

[Fantastic Ergo]

Team Banzai was a loyal and extremely fanatic about Davion. So am I