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Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade



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#1 S3dition

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 09:07 AM

For those of you who haven't heard yet, a new Warhammer 40,000 based MMOFPSRTSRPG has been announced, and a few details have been leaked. Here are some links and a quick overview of known information.

NOTE: Please refrain from making this a PGI/MWO bashing contest. This is information about a NEW game with no real content and 2 years left before release.

Eternal Crusade
Ten Ton Hammer
MMORPG
MuchDifferent - PikkoServer

Summary - A quick update with bullet points:
  • NOT RELATED TO DARK MILLENIUM!!!
  • The camera angle is over the shoulder (similar to Space Marine)
  • Contains finishing moves and is supposed to be rather bloody
  • It's being developed by Behavior Interactive Montreal
  • It is using the Unity engine
  • Uses PikkoServer and claims up to 1000 players in a single, active battle
  • Has a development team of 275 people
  • 4 Races are planned for launch - Orks, Eldar, Space Marines, Chaos
  • Tyranids are a PVE, non-playable 5th race
  • Each playable race has 4 unique factions
  • Announced factions so far are Dark Angels, Ultramarines, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves
  • Each faction has unique bonuses within it's race
  • Each race has unlockable "classes" I'm guessing this means tactical marine, assault marine, devastator marine, etc.
  • Deep and extensive custimization and advancements
  • Players who don't pay any money at all can only be boyz
  • It will take 5 boyz to kill 1 marine
  • There WILL be player usable vehicles
  • Each player gets their own space ship that is fully customizable
  • Players can form squads and vote on where to attack
  • Forming a squad puts the players on a single, shared ship
  • Each faction has a player elected council that creates objectives
  • Completing assigned objectives gives you lots of experience and a requisition token
  • Players and the council have overland maps with friendly and enemy forces displayed, and the council can make strategic decisions about where to place objectives based on enemy movements and captured resources.
  • Requisition tokens are the only form of currency
  • Tyranids are a non-playable PVE race
  • All "dungeons" are procedurally generated and filled with tyranids. You'll never get the same "dungeon" twice
  • Each race has a number of classes that can be unlocked, with their own skills, armor, weapons, etc that they can use
  • Players will fight over a planet for 3 months, after which a winner is declared and everyone moves to a completely different planet
  • The pay model is currently focused on unlocking a race and buying cosmetic items. Classes are unlocked with XP (if you bought the race).
  • Your ship has a world map that shows objectives and where friendly units are attacking. You can drop pod into battle with it.
  • Terrain is destructible.
  • Taking a building may damage it, so your faction must repair it before it gets a bonus from it.
Some thoughts:



As far as I know, this is Unity's largest game developer by far. It's a AAA MMO style game with 2 years of development using an extremely popular IP. As someone who uses Unity myself, I'm very interested in seeing how this pushes Unity to develop more features (especially those features that we've been demanding for a while). This may shoot Unity up in power and ability closer to that of Unreal 3/4 and out of the indie only box that it's been stuck in.

I kind of like the voting system, but it's very easy to troll. It only takes a single person getting voted in and doing nothing to ruin that whole faction. Anyone who has played games with a voting mechanic know that it can be hard to kick or remove someone when 99% of the players don't vote. That said, if the developers take an active roll in this player elected council, much like CCP does for EVE, then it opens up all kinds of potential for war councils and very deep strategy. Moreso if these leaders have special insignia to denote who they are on the battlefield (such as very ornate armor, cloaks, huge power claws, etc). Suddenly you have something that looks and feels VERY much like 40k.

I'm interested in seeing how the "freeloaders can only be boyz" stance will work out. I get their take - that they want a lot of orks and they need to do something with the free players. But how many people will be interested in that? To be honest, it may be in their best interest to make both cultists and boyz a free faction. This allows people to play both the alien and the human where large numbers are expected. I imagine Imperial Guard will work in a similar fashion, with many guardsmen required to kill one space marine. My fear is that not enough people will want to bother being an ork at all, and just skip out on the game.

I don't like the "everyone gets their own ship" philosophy though. I think squads or units should get ships, individuals should get a room on the ship. Upgrades and cosmetics should come though the entire squad helping out (similar to guilds in Guild Wars 2). I know it's a money making feature, but they could add something like loyalty points for every time a player spends money. They can add these loyalty points to the squad to speed up or outright buy upgrades for the ship. This encourages spending without forcing it.

I'm very interesting in the procedural dungeons. I think this could potentially change the entire face of MMO's, where the world is completely static with every player performed measured movements to move from x gear to x gear until they max out. This means no more mindless speed runs or monotonous grinding for gear. It also saves on development time and allows the team to focus on adding more factions that people want instead of making sure there is a dungeon for each race of the proper level that gives the proper reward.

I've been a Dark Angel player since the tail end of 2nd Edition, so I'm eager to see if there will be unique advancement trees for unique factions, like becoming a Deathwing terminator or Ravenwing biker. I'm also wondering how the rank system works in conjunction with professions - a devastator sergeant doesn't use any heavy weapons, so would you advance and lose that ability, or is being a sergeant an advancement path of its own?

The size of the game is rather interesting. 1000 players in a single battle is larger than almost any game of Warhammer 40k table top you'll ever play. Note that this is players per battle, not server. The difference is that planetside 2 can handle 2000 players per continent, but not in a single battle. That breaks down when you have more than a few hundred, so this should be interesting. It's a huge claim, and a lot of people are going to be eager to see if they can make good on it.

Edited by S3dition, 01 September 2013 - 09:32 AM.


#2 New Day

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 10:32 AM

I agree. No one short of a Inquisitor should have a ship. This has so much potential, the best thing ever would be something like WoWs Caverns of Time during Horus Heresy or the Great Crusade.

#3 Lord Ikka

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 09:50 PM

Signed up, we'll see how good it is sooner or later. Dark Angels/Emperor's Children player from a long way back.

#4 S3dition

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 12:34 AM

View PostLord Ikka, on 13 September 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

Signed up, we'll see how good it is sooner or later. Dark Angels/Emperor's Children player from a long way back.


I have the 1st company, working on the 2nd company. Started way back at the tail end of 2nd ed. I still remember the gorkamorka box set :(

#5 RadioKies

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:38 AM

This made my heart skip a beat.. but then I read it uses the dreaded Unity engine. Why, WHY!?!?!

#6 Adridos

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:53 AM

View PostRadioKies, on 14 September 2013 - 01:38 AM, said:

This made my heart skip a beat.. but then I read it uses the dreaded Unity engine. Why, WHY!?!?!

Because it's cheaper than other engines and they probably don't have the competency of AAA developers to work in real language like C++. :(

It is going to be interesting, to say the least, as Unity really isn't what I'd consider a flexible engine and a Wh40k MMO is anything but something that's easy to code.

#7 S3dition

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 02:38 AM

View PostAdridos, on 14 September 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

Because it's cheaper than other engines and they probably don't have the competency of AAA developers to work in real language like C++. :D

It is going to be interesting, to say the least, as Unity really isn't what I'd consider a flexible engine and a Wh40k MMO is anything but something that's easy to code.


Actually, Unity is incredibly flexible and any language is a "real language". C++ is more efficient, but has an enormous amount of problems of its own. That's why most modern developers use C# whenever possible. It's no longer about sounding cool around the water cooler and on forms... you actually have to get work done these days :(. In fact, I can't think of any game that's written with a single language anymore. Guild Wars 2 uses C++ for the engine and a scripting language for everything else. Unreal 3/4 uses a custom form of Java. Mobile development uses Java, Objective-C, and C#. Xbox uses C#.

If we're going down the "I'm better than you because I use this language" road, you're pretty pathetic if you don't write in machine language and manually map out memory address ;)

Also, UDK is technically cheaper at $99, but skims 30% off the top and doesn't have much community support. Unlike the Unity asset store that actually has usable plugins, the UDK has a forum with people that just say "You're too stupid to code, go kill yourself. Hope that helps."

Full engine access is also around the area of $10 million for Unreal 3/4, which is money far better spent actually producing content instead of on 90% of the things that won't be used.

I've used both UDK and Unity, and I prefer unity because it just "works". I don't need to be "teh uber leetz" developer that spends more time fixing code than actually producing assets.

#8 Adridos

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 03:24 AM

View PostS3dition, on 14 September 2013 - 02:38 AM, said:


Actually, Unity is incredibly flexible and any language is a "real language". C++ is more efficient, but has an enormous amount of problems of its own. That's why most modern developers use C# whenever possible. It's no longer about sounding cool around the water cooler and on forms... you actually have to get work done these days :(. In fact, I can't think of any game that's written with a single language anymore. Guild Wars 2 uses C++ for the engine and a scripting language for everything else. Unreal 3/4 uses a custom form of Java. Mobile development uses Java, Objective-C, and C#. Xbox uses C#.

If we're going down the "I'm better than you because I use this language" road, you're pretty pathetic if you don't write in machine language and manually map out memory address ;)


Still, bigger the game, higher the chance is you will need to go deeper than C#/Java allows you. Yes, I do understand they are kinda better for anything most programmers will ever need and are actually user friendly, which is non-heard of in the older ones... but when making big projects like this, there's always a chance they'll run into a wall of what they can do which could be prevented by using a language that's more to the core than this.

Generally, I also have bad experiences with bigger games done in Unity, so I'm kinda biased.

As far as machine language goes, that's for sissies. Real men work in binary without any kind of those noobtubes like BIOS!

#9 S3dition

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 05:32 AM

View PostAdridos, on 14 September 2013 - 03:24 AM, said:


Still, bigger the game, higher the chance is you will need to go deeper than C#/Java allows you. Yes, I do understand they are kinda better for anything most programmers will ever need and are actually user friendly, which is non-heard of in the older ones... but when making big projects like this, there's always a chance they'll run into a wall of what they can do which could be prevented by using a language that's more to the core than this.

Generally, I also have bad experiences with bigger games done in Unity, so I'm kinda biased.

As far as machine language goes, that's for sissies. Real men work in binary without any kind of those noobtubes like BIOS!


It's a full partnership, which means Unity is likely to make deep code changes to keep them happy. I'm willing to bet that it will work just fine. The graphics may not be next generation, as you have to write your own shader and I haven't found very robust material editors as of yet, but for a large scale MMO, it was unlikely that they were ever going to push the graphics too hard.

#10 Adridos

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 05:43 AM

View PostS3dition, on 14 September 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

The graphics may not be next generation, as you have to write your own shader and I haven't found very robust material editors as of yet, but for a large scale MMO, it was unlikely that they were ever going to push the graphics too hard.


Well, that's one of the issues. I'd hope for at least decent graphics along the lines of Space Marine to do the franchise any kind of justice, but as far as unity games go, they are usually quite bad on the graphical side and don't even run all that well.

An MMO in 2015 that looks and feels just head above a browser game is definitely not something I'd like for Wh40k to get.

#11 S3dition

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 06:09 AM

View PostAdridos, on 14 September 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:


Well, that's one of the issues. I'd hope for at least decent graphics along the lines of Space Marine to do the franchise any kind of justice, but as far as unity games go, they are usually quite bad on the graphical side and don't even run all that well.

An MMO in 2015 that looks and feels just head above a browser game is definitely not something I'd like for Wh40k to get.


That has little to do with the engine. Typically a studio with no money uses Unity (especially these days) and tend to not care much about final performance or graphics.

Here is a perfect example of what experienced developers can do with custom shaders for Unity: http://www.ana-todor...y3d/08/01/2013/

Ultimately, it's been proven time and again that Unity is perfectly capable of making a AAA title. The major difference is that a AAA company uses "Powered by Unreal" as a kind of marketing scheme. People expect a game to be made with Unreal these days, far and above Unity, Gamebryo, CryEngine, or even Source.

Wasteland 2 uses Unity and looks just fine:

http://www.youtube.c...vNbuOenVPw#t=11

The bottom line is that it can look next gen if they decide it needs to. But they're trying to get 1000 players into a single active fight on a platform that requires the largest amount of people possible to be able to run the game. This means they may intentionally hobble the graphics a bit to ensure it runs on older systems.

Also, Unity seems to release a full revision about every 6 - 8 months. Eternal Crusade has a development cycle of 2 years before release, so expect to see several changes in Unity before the game becomes available.

Edited by S3dition, 14 September 2013 - 12:35 PM.


#12 RadioKies

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:23 AM

And now an in depth reply that is a real addition to the discussion in this topic.


View PostS3dition, on 14 September 2013 - 02:38 AM, said:

it just "works".

Please refrain from using Mac language.

#13 Skadi

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 12:43 PM

View PostNamesAreStupid, on 13 September 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

I agree. No one short of a Inquisitor should have a ship. This has so much potential, the best thing ever would be something like WoWs Caverns of Time during Horus Heresy or the Great Crusade.


Chapter master rank *cough*

#14 New Day

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 01:45 PM

View PostSkadi, on 16 September 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:


Chapter master rank *cough*

Well a Chapter Master probably won't be traveling without his chapter.

Edited by NamesAreStupid, 16 September 2013 - 01:45 PM.


#15 Skadi

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 01:46 PM

View PostNamesAreStupid, on 16 September 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:


Well a Chapter Master probably won't be traveling without his chapter.

Not exactly praetorian guard, but indeed.

#16 S3dition

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:06 AM

View PostRadioKies, on 16 September 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

And now an in depth reply that is a real addition to the discussion in this topic.



Please refrain from using Mac language.


It's general IT language, not mac language. It's the difference between IP tables and Webmin.

#17 Capt Cole 117

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:46 PM

The dev hasn’t made anything but movie/tv ties. Its been so long since we got a good 40k game but it seems that GW stopped caring enough to look for a competent devs.

#18 SIN Deacon

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 09:03 PM

**** me just had a shower and now ima change again.... ******* love Dawn of War and I will always buy any title just to support the cause. Cannot wait!

#19 cranect

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 06:51 PM

I will play orks regardless.

#20 S3dition

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 07:58 PM

This may be of interest to some of the people that frequent the forums: Behavior To Participate in Create of Star Citizen

Looks like the SC people have a reason to care about the success of Eternal Crusade now.





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