199 replies to this topic

[HRR Insanity]

First, a few disclaimers:

1) I'm not in the beta, so for all I know this is completely different currently because...
2) All information used to generate this post is purely based off of the released footage/screenshots available publically from Pirhana and from CBT (the tabletop rules) and...
3) I'm bored so I thought I'd play around with this.

Moving on... LRM range in MWO is too short.

Currently, based on Russ' commentary during the Heavy Mech Breakdown (), the maximum range of the LRM was 650m (equivalent to roughtly 20-21 hexes). This is clearly different than canon CBT in which extreme range for LRMs is 28 hexes or 840m. This is a potentially critical difference because range and mech speeds can have a dramatic impact on weapon balance.

If long range weapons don't have sufficient range, they need to be buffed to allow them to be equally effective compared to infighting weapons (ACs, MLs, etc). Otherwise, fast infighters (anything moving at 5/8-7/11 can close the distance between the LRM carrying 'Mechs (usually in under a minute, as anything going 60kph+ will move >1000m in that time) and overwhelm them with short range weapons.

Assuming that anything with a movement rate of >3/5 (hexes) can cover this distance (barring the LRM mech moving backwards) within 1 minute... that only leaves 3-4 LRM attacks before the opposing mech is in your face. To compensate for this, LRMs could have increased rate of fire... increased damage... or increased range. If you add rate of fire or damage, you will tend to make LRMs become more and more unbalanced when packed on in large numbers due to the high damage output. LRMs need to be effective, but not too effective...

Increasing the range on LRMs back to canon distance (840m) allows 'Mechs with LRMs to do damage over time from further out which limits the need to increase the 'alpha' potential of LRMs. It makes LRMs valuable because they are able to damage 'Mechs outside of the range of most other weapons (AC2, AC5, Gauss, PPC excepted). Targeted 'Mechs can still use cover to avoid LRMs and that range will be difficult to use properly without excellent scouts... so ... and it makes the game more interesting by balancing the # of times a 'Mech drop will end up in a furball/infight.

Make LRMs what they're supposed to be: Long Range Missiles.

*pulls pin on discussion hand-grenade and walks away*

Insanity

[Eximar]

Sorry, but LRM range in canon is 630m (21 hexes).

[Kobold]

HRR Insanity, on 14 June 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

Currently, based on Russ' commentary during the Heavy Mech Breakdown (), the maximum range of the LRM was 650m (equivalent to roughtly 20-21 hexes). This is clearly different than canon CBT in which extreme range for LRMs is 28 hexes or 840m.

Wrong

[FLAKPANZER]

I was a bit more concerned about low damage than low range, but I understand why it might be a necessity in-game.

[Tymanthius]

Kobold, on 14 June 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

Wrong

Really? Could you maybe elucidate your statement a little? I find it VERY annoying when people say things like that w/o backing up the statement.

I'm not saying your are correct, or incorrect. Simply that your statement lacks evidence to cause me to believe you.

[Vasces Diablo]

HRR Insanity, on 14 June 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

*pulls pin on discussion hand-grenade and walks away*

Insanity

First off, that made me laugh, so thanks for that.

Anyway, we done know anything about the other weapons ranges, maybe they all got shortened, or how much damage anything really does at this point. I haven't watches that video in a while does he say max range or effective range. He's also indirect firing, which could be a factor.

[Alexander Caine]

Wrong because LRM range in TT is 21 hexes, as mentioned.

[New Breed]

hey, I'm all for not getting obliterated from the other side of the map by satellite tracked ww2 tanks...

..wait wrong game.

[Wiley Coyote]

According to Sarna (I haven't played TT in years) the long range for LRM-5/10/15/20 is 15-21. Sounds like the devs got it right.

[Arctic Fox]

Kobold, on 14 June 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

Wrong

Actually it's true, Long Range for LRMs is 21 hexes, but their Extreme Range (under TacOps rules) is indeed 28 hexes.

[Alexander Caine]

Extreme ranges is a seldom used optional rule though. ACTUAL range is 21 hexes still.

And to be fair, weapons in MWO are effective beyond "max" range too.

[Kobold]

Tymanthius, on 14 June 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

Really? Could you maybe elucidate your statement a little? I find it VERY annoying when people say things like that w/o backing up the statement.

I'm not saying your are correct, or incorrect. Simply that your statement lacks evidence to cause me to believe you.

The OP's entire premise was based on an incorrect fact that he didn't cite. I feel no need to provide evidence of his wrongness.

[Mercurial]

Tymanthius, on 14 June 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

Really? Could you maybe elucidate your statement a little? I find it VERY annoying when people say things like that w/o backing up the statement.

I'm not saying your are correct, or incorrect. Simply that your statement lacks evidence to cause me to believe you.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/LRM-20

Note the range. 16-21 hexes.

As someone else said, I'm a little more concerned with damage then range, but we'll see. Frankly I'm not sure if the ammo problem from most MW games is solved yet to begin with, but the LRMs in the vid with the Catapult seemed kind of meh. We'll see.

[Joe Mallad]

Actually guys YES long rang in CANON is 21 hexes at (630 meters) BUT in Canon TT there is a range after long range and if you read the OPs post you would see he's taling about (and passably) confusing long rang with EXTREME range... witch does exist in TT and LRM Extreme range in TT is 28 hexes at (840 meters)

[Mercurial]

That's the optional ruleset though, and it's more or less 'Hail mary pass range.'--The equivalent of a pilot eyeballing it and trying to lob missles downrange. Whether or not that's possible isn't known, but 'MAYBE can hit if you do things perfectly at X' range is not 'The weapon is effective at X range.'

Edited by Mercurial, 14 June 2012 - 11:30 AM.

[Pvt Dancer]

Base rules range is 21 for LRMs, Devs have the right range, this thread has been beaten to death a month ago when those vids first came out. I suggest Insanity should do a forum search on LRMs before trying to make a 'new and popular' thread of a dead subject.

[alben5k]

I'm certain the damage/range ratio is going to be slightly different to cannon based on the size of the maps as well as extensive game testing. They will have to change the numbers simply because this game is not TT. I'm not saying you're going to see them go 800m, but i am saying that the numbers WILL be different simply for balance reasons.

[Joe Mallad]

Mercurial, on 14 June 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

That's the optional ruleset though, and it's more or less 'Hail mary pass range.'--The equivalent of a pilot eyeballing it and trying to lob missles downrange. Whether or not that's possible isn't known, but 'MAYBE can hit if you do things perfectly at X' range is not 'The weapon is effective at X range.'

youre right but what i was getting at is I think the OP of this thread is confusing Extreme range with Long range and thinking that in like other games where you could fire LRMs out to 860 meters for Long range, that the 28 hex (860) range is canon long range and its not as we all know that the 21 hex (630 meters is) BUT i was also backing him on that he did get the Extreme range right tho lol

[Torcip]

How about we forget about what worked in the TT game and worry about what works in this game, why is everyone so hung up about everything having to work as TT canon, this is a video game and not everything is going to translate.

Edited by Torcip, 14 June 2012 - 11:37 AM.

[Prophet of Entropy]

the thing is, LRMs arent supposed to be THE long range weapon. they are just longer ranged versions of SRMs with lighter warheads, they arent meant to be king of long range damage like in some previous flawed computer games.