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Welcome To Launch, Mechwarriors!


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#1021 Blood Rose

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:37 AM

The hoard of spideys flying forwards will be giving me nighmares for weeks........
On the other hand, Good Luck -_-

#1022 The Echo Inside

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:40 AM

I guess I wonder, for all those who are claiming it's entitlement/whining/etc, what do you believe is a reasonable timeline, degree of patience, or waiting period for expected/stated features?

I'd have been okay with even just having role warfare available (which was meant to be a central tenant of the game) after my 2 years.

#1023 ShadowedR

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:40 AM

*tiny voice in the crowd*

Hey guys,

Hands up how many of you are programmers?
*hand up

Hands up how many of you own software companies or form part of the top tier management?
*Hand up

Let me tell you a little story:

2 years ago we started developing a product for a niche market we identified in the country we operate in.
The initial designs and specifications were targeted at addressing the most basic functionality only, while keeping the platform open to expansion later on.

Alpha was released in 2 months.
First version was released in 6 month's time.
Instead of running to market, we started re-evaluating the product and comparing it more aggressively to competitors.
After all, we've only covered the basics, they've got entire systems.
I got in a few specialists to advice us on the various aspects of the program.
We went back to the drawing board and starting designing our system to accommodate the recommendations.

2 years later, we're at iteration #3 - and by iteration I mean a full redo of at least 60% of the project.
We haven't launched the product. Why? Because we feel that an unfinished product is going to hurt you and your business.

In terms of "features" we've added minimal new, cool features, instead focusing more on tidying up the existing functionality and re-developing other areas for performance and scalability.

From a user's perspective, people would say, but you haven't done anything really, have you?
From the developer's side I know they've changed a lot in software, just not anything extremely flashy.

Another little story:

While working for another company, I had a big project to complete. Worked our ***** off on the project and @ 70% completion, the manager walks in and TELLS us that we should implement 5 new features.
These 5 new features do not add a lot of value to the product in general, but rather they are focused on satisfying the needs of one client.
Just one.
But this guys is going to throw a lot of money at the project and management loves money.

This put us back as we had to and redevelop major sections of the software.
The project never really made money.

What I'd like you guys to see from this is that

a) Programming is a cruel mistress -> so much goes on behind the scenes that end-users do not realize that it is often easy to criticize the time spent vs the flashy result.
:ph34r: 90% of the time, its not the dev's who are at fault, but rather management that messes with the project plan.
c) Releasing a product to soon can harm you in the long run.

This is what I feel PGI did wrong - beta started too soon in the dev process. Management stepped in and shifted development focus on making short term income.

Oh look, my first post? Does this make my statement invalid?
No, it just makes me quiet. And patient. I'm a founder. I've played with most of the available roster of mechs. I've invested over $100 in the game. I never complained while the game was in Beta, coz its Beta.
Its not anymore.

I'm not the White Knight in this argument, I'm sorely disappointed as I'm typing this.
I'm just a voice in the dark.



-_-

#1024 Vassago Rain

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:41 AM

View PostArmando, on 18 September 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:


$800 is child's play, I have dropped over $2000.00....have every mech in the game mastered (97 total mechs as of today), every module, all mechs are fully loaded (at LEAST double heat sinks / Endo-Steal), all mechs are painted, etc and I didn't even get in on the founders package as I started playing the patch they took it out (but I do have Phoenix project).


You could have bought 2 idrises with that.

#1025 bloo58

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:41 AM

View PostFurball42, on 18 September 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

Oh no, i LOVE the game. I seriously do. I play every night.

I'm not writing it off. I'm a bit peeved at some decisions that has been made, but I keep in trucking with
the rest of the fans. I've got Raven's to master, damn it -_-

And I totally would have kept my trap shut if I hadn't paid for anything, but I have, so yeah, probably a issue on my side then.
I cry because this is awesome. because i can see the potential. because i have money to throw at it :ph34r:


and its still early days.. name me one recent game that has been release at launch perfect.. my point may have gotten hostile, but its still stands.. Give em a chance.. the game has just come out of open beta..

Look at BF3, Starcraft 2, Cod, WoW, countless games have been released in less than perfect condition, only to be patched and somewhat rectified, on the other hand Blizzard took 10 years to release Diablo 3, people STILL complained that it wasnt perfect.. the moral of the story, perfection is unattainable these days.. someone is always going to be disjointed and get peeved about something

#1026 MarkEwer

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:44 AM

Thank you.

I just want to say thank you.

The truth is this game is pretty sweet and I am actually kind of upset that so many people are ranting about it. To celebrate launch day I bought a Firebrand and an Ilya Muromets and played 18 games strait last night.

Keep up the good work.

#1027 FriedIV

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:44 AM

One can only hope that PGI is reading this thread and gets the genuine disappointment that seems to be expressed by their loyal customers.

#1028 McKillynu

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:45 AM

I've spent all day reading this topic. Hillarious! You guys haven't released a game, it's just a demo. Why would you put a demo in front of your critics? Is this what the gaming industry has become? We have DLC and F2P, microtransaction based business model which allows less and less product to be delivered. Now this. A polished demo gets to be called a finished game.

I looked at the Cry SDK documentation for half an hour before I figured out what the problem was. Oh my. That's no good. If you know what the problem is and didn't address it early then, that's bad. If you don't know what the problem is and you are still looking to hire a guy to solve that problem and when you get the wrong guy because you think it's a network architecture issue then, that's even worse. If you don't know what the problem is and convince the new guy that your idea of the problem is the real problem and he should only focus on that then, that's worse than worse. Either way, you're at least two years away from a functioning game. That's if you can suck it up and let someone who knows what he/she is doing, find and fix the problems(which may mean complete recode).

You don't have a game lobby. Why? CryLobby is a plug and play module which should take you two weeks to develop and two weeks to test and roll out. If you can't do that it means you haven't got CryNetwork properly implemented, hence the want ad for senior network fixer-upper. Now, the only reason you can't have CryNetwork properly done is because you haven't implemented multi-threading across the code base. Possibly, the gamecode is a steeming pile of scripts and code snippets. We already know from your want ad there is no documentation to be found, that stuff generally follows on from poor code quality.

So, yeah... that's gonna take a recode. *crickets*

Summary, Lack of multi-threading means no CryNetwork and GameObject synchronisation. Explains the following issues:

1. No game lobbly
2. Latency w/ object and mesh collisions
3. Hitbox collision misses*
4. Framerate drops
5. Client to server instability
6. No Community Warfare

*The hitbox stuff is explained by DAG not being implemented because there is no message queueing so, data packets are gettng lost to and from the client and server.

http://freesdk.cryde...DOC4/CryNetwork

I'll wait until you guys come up with a video game before a spend any money on this title. I'm surprised given the state of the game that you aren't throwing the kitchen sink at your loyal customers to keep them excited and in the game...

Cheers!

tl;dr PGI tried to save money and hired juniors to do seniors job(who doesn't right?). They don't know what the problem is(or in complete denial) or, how long it will take to fix. I'm guessing at least two years for a code overhaul. That's if they manage to stay in business long enough.

#1029 Belorion

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:45 AM

View PostVarth Shenon, on 18 September 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

#prayforwhiteknight


Why? The white knights are having more fun than everybody else. They are the ones that enjoy the game.

#1030 Furball42

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:49 AM

View Postbloo58, on 18 September 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:


and its still early days.. name me one recent game that has been release at launch perfect.. my point may have gotten hostile, but its still stands.. Give em a chance.. the game has just come out of open beta..

Look at BF3, Starcraft 2, Cod, WoW, countless games have been released in less than perfect condition, only to be patched and somewhat rectified, on the other hand Blizzard took 10 years to release Diablo 3, people STILL complained that it wasnt perfect.. the moral of the story, perfection is unattainable these days.. someone is always going to be disjointed and get peeved about something


oh for sure.. i've been an advocate for this game from the start. and I (me, personally) don't have a hassle with the game. Yeah, its a bit stale sometimes and there are minor glitches, but there's nothing like coming home from a 14h work day and shooting the coolant out of people.. -_-

i've been reading up alot lately on the dev processes of bigger games and i'm totally cool with the game as it stands. and i'm sure more features will be added. i'm in no rush..

i can't actually wait to get into my locust.

all i'm saying is that game is being mishandled. I started my complaints this day because the launch was boring. no arguments there. it was stale bread on a cold Russian morning boring.

That is where i stand. I love the game. I have hopes. I'm disappointed.

#1031 Brodi

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:51 AM

Spider's hitboxes - not fixed
Mech colisions - not fixed
UI 2 - not fixed
CW - not fixed
New game modes - not fixed
removing "beta" from MW logo - fixed!

Cool we can lunch!!

Perhaps you should look on other game developing teams (War thunder for example) and LEARN HOW TO DEVELOP GAME WITHOUT ******* OUT WHOLE COMUNITY!

One more thing: You think that i will play 24 games(booooooring rounds) to get ***** "operation 24 hanging cocpit item? Sorry im not that cheap tu buy.

I wil have refound for my phoenig program, Im ending playing this {Scrap}.

#1032 HugoStiglitz

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:51 AM

View PostKread, on 18 September 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

Hugo you think I am wrong? You think there is an actual real live dev team working on this game?

I am sure on " Launch Day" this thread is being monitored by the people making this game.

Make us believe in you, set up a cheap webcam in your Dev studio, pan it around and show us all the dozens of happy devs toiling away on Mechwarrior ( a copy of today's paper in view for "proof of life" ) and we are all good.

Would take the Dev's 15 mins tops to do this... If they exist......

Is this your issue? Do a google image search on their names then.
I don't know why you would think that only 2 people work on this game.
Could they have more communication with the playerbase? Yes, everygame could use that. Am I going to fault them for not showing their faces? Hell no.

#1033 Damocles69

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:51 AM

Ghost launch was bad and the devas should feel bad. However, I will say that the game is way more fun now than it has been in months. Good job on that

#1034 StoneMason

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:52 AM

I find the whole F2P model pretty discouraging, especially given that it restricts the kind of content that the users themselves can develop, something that the Mechwarrior community has always been great at. That said, I've dropped $280 on this game and as a student. That's a LOT of money for me to spend, more than I've spent on any other game. The only other title I could think of investing that much money in would be something like Steel Beasts Pro, a highly detailed and well supported commercial Tank Simulation. I'm happy with that spend for MWO because I think the developers deserve that level of support and I want to see the game succeed.

Now that investment doesn't mean that the developers have to do everything I say, or ANYTHING I say. It does mean that they need to provide a feedback tool that is taken seriously. They also need to communicate both short term development information and a long term vision for the game. The former has been spotty, the latter has been non-existent for a year and a half.

I'm a Battletech fan so this title was always going to get a high level of support from me, I still trust the developers to deliver something I enjoy. Now the downsides of a privately hosted crowdfunding title are becoming apparent, the developer simply has no responsibility to communicate. If the Founders program was being moderated by something like Kickstarter I highly doubt this lack of engagement or interaction would be tolerated.

#1035 Kread

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:54 AM

Bloo you sound like a schill, however if your not let me explain,

Beta ends when a company asks for cash/sells items/premium for its game...period. They can say anything they like, I can say i'm 100 feet tall, does not make it true..

There has been very little development of this game, period. Compared to the money they have taken in , very little has come out in they way of game development, this makes people unhappy.

Launch day , I have been involved with the gaming industry for 35 years and never have I seen anything launched in a more minimalist and apologetic fashion. I could list 100 ideas for a decent launch here, but I wont since they are all totally obvious.

The only reason for so little being done for the launch is that almost no one is working on this game...Obvious for all to see..

Edited by Kread, 18 September 2013 - 04:58 AM.


#1036 BRRM

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:56 AM

OK OK so this is a completed game now? or is it still beta? (as in unfinished?)

#1037 Drakken

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:57 AM

View PostT0rment0r, on 17 September 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

Im still rooting that all people who attend the launch party have access to restricted clanmechs and my targeting system switches frantically between "Marauder" and "Catapult" at my next drop...

Then again, Im a dreamer...


That would be SO cool if they actually put something like that in for some kind of "Clan Introduction" event...I don't see this happening at the launch party though...yeah, I guess I'm a little bit of a dreamer too...I often think of MWO and "what could have been."

Oh well...I guess it's time to get back on MegaMek and hope that some day PGI will either stop being bumbling idiots (thus the reason why they are so SLOW to deliver stuff), or hire more people to get the job done faster....yeah...I'm dreaming again, lol.

#1038 Divine Madcat

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:57 AM

View PostBrodi, on 18 September 2013 - 04:51 AM, said:

Spider's hitboxes - not fixed
Mech colisions - not fixed
UI 2 - not fixed
CW - not fixed
New game modes - not fixed
removing "beta" from MW logo - fixed!

Cool we can lunch!!

Perhaps you should look on other game developing teams (War thunder for example) and LEARN HOW TO DEVELOP GAME WITHOUT ******* OUT WHOLE COMUNITY!

One more thing: You think that i will play 24 games(booooooring rounds) to get ***** "operation 24 hanging cocpit item? Sorry im not that cheap tu buy.

I wil have refound for my phoenig program, Im ending playing this {Scrap}.

Well said. Those points, in addition to the devs not knowing how to tell the truth... like..EVER, made it easy to move on. I mean, hey.. as a money dropping founder, I have already been told i am not the target demographic. They wont miss me anyway..

Sure, i come here still to see whats happening, but they aren't getting my play time and money. War Thunder gets that now... boy, is that an example of how a beta SHOULD be.

#1039 Heffay

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:57 AM

View PostStoneMason, on 18 September 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:

Now that investment doesn't mean that the developers have to do everything I say, or ANYTHING I say. It does mean that they need to provide a feedback tool that is taken seriously. They also need to communicate both short term development information and a long term vision for the game. The former has been spotty, the latter has been non-existent for a year and a half.


There is a feedback tool; it's called the feedback forum. They have solicited people's opinions on the forum directly ( 1PV in 12 man queues, SRM changes).

They also have communicated both short term development information (Oct plans for UI 2.0, currently in testing, CW at the same time or soon after) as well as long term visions (the 3 part NGNG interview, which was FULL of info about what's planned.

They are doing what you are looking for.

#1040 soarra

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:58 AM

View Postbloo58, on 18 September 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:


and its still early days.. name me one recent game that has been release at launch perfect.. my point may have gotten hostile, but its still stands.. Give em a chance.. the game has just come out of open beta..

Look at BF3, Starcraft 2, Cod, WoW, countless games have been released in less than perfect condition, only to be patched and somewhat rectified, on the other hand Blizzard took 10 years to release Diablo 3, people STILL complained that it wasnt perfect.. the moral of the story, perfection is unattainable these days.. someone is always going to be disjointed and get peeved about something

lol the beta tag is off so the "Its' still beta" thing doesn't work so this is thew new one.. I posted about this yesterday.. The game just launched its going to have problems, what game at launch doesn't .. ROFL





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