96 replies to this topic

[CDLord HHGD]

Either remove the requirement or put 10 back in the engine, no more, no less.

[wanderer]

The error has been in the construction system- PGI "simplified" some stuff and ended up breaking parts of the system in the process. Why heat sinks that don't fit in the engine couldn't simply be added dynamically like endosteel or ferro-fibrous when a smaller engine is added is beyond me.

[Christopher Hamilton]

where is the free 10 internal heatsinks that come with the engine ? didnt see them according to Canon.

but - if you switch to double heat sinks... you need to add the same amount !!!! to your 20 ton machinegun mech... instead of saving space and tons, they mess you up costwise, spacewise, etc.

little buggers need a reason to stay around, currently super easy oneshots... :/

[Fire and Salt]

10 heatsinks should be required because it is battletech lore.


But, i do agree that locusts and commandos are unfairly penalized.





Solution:
Current System: Built in engine heat sinks being 2.0, the rest of the heatsinks being 1.4
Proposed System: First 10 heatsinks 2.0, the rest of heatsinks 1.4

To code this, i suggest that all engines below 250 include special variants of heat sinks.
Ex:
XL200 - 2 heatsinks short, meaning that there will be 2x 1.4 efficiency heatinks that will be added, which we want to buff to 2.0. The difference is .6 * 2 = 1.2
So the XL200 gets 2.0*8 + 1.2 = 17.2 heat dissapation instead of its current heat dissapation of 16.

This way, all added heat sinks can still be 1.4, and we can avoid determining which of the added heatsinks are 2.0 and which are 1.4






EDIT:
Thought i should start a poll to see if people like this idea.
http://mwomercs.com/...of-engine-size/

Edited by Fire and Salt, 06 August 2014 - 12:59 AM.

[Mad Squig]

Minimum of 10 heat sinks in a Battlemech is Canon from the Tabletop game. The Fusion Engine NEEDS 10 heat sinks to function properly. The number of Heat Sinks that can fit into an engine depends on the engine rating. smaller engines cannot fit as many as larger, which explains why some larger engines can fit heat sinks in the engine itself without taking up crit slots. If you remove the requirement for 10 HS for light engines, then you MUST remove the asset of putting HS in larger engines. I figure PGI would hear a GREAT DEAL about that from the complaint department.

[happy mech]

i agree the requirement can be removed, if then simply moving (or even online) can cause you to overheat if you have less hs

[Robomomo2000]

I run a 1V and it you don't want to run a LL you should be running an ERLL if you are smart, and even with 10 double heatsinks I can overheat so fast with the rate of fire on that guy. Don't pilot any commandos so I don't know how they do.

[Night Thastus]

I agree to remove a mandatory number of heatsinks. Personally it feels a bit artificial and doesn't help creativity. I don't see anything on Sarna anywhere saying that there was a mandatory of 10, but I'd need ot look into more.

[Burktross]

I own all but one of the locusts, they're fine. My go to light, actually.
Commandos on the other hand... eh... I don't think even this can help...

[OznerpaG]

don't know if this was mentioned already (likely), but engines with less than 10 heat sinks should mean you have to install additional heat sinks that take up crit slots, but they have no weight cost to get to the 10 minimum and they don't have the internal 2.0 DHS bonus. since light mechs can't equip many weapons anyways the crit slots shouldn't be a big deal, but it still might require careful crit planning in combination with mounted weapons, and in some cases it may not let lights mount FF if too many crit slots are needed to fill in the 10 heat sinks

Edited by JagdFlanker, 05 April 2015 - 01:58 PM.

[990Dreams]

Those two Mechs need buffing. Try playing them w/ out singles and see.

[Mr D One]

Add the Urban Mech to the list as well.

You see, expanded Battletech rules says that for every 25 rating, the engine can hold 1 Heat Sink, Single or Double.

Engine Rating - Heat Sink Capacity

25 - 1
50 - 2
75 - 3
100 - 4
125 - 5
150 - 6
175 - 7
200 - 8
225 - 9
250 -10
275 -11
300 - 12
325 - 13
350 - 14
375 - 15
400 - 16

Because MWO: A Battle tech game (scroll up, you will see it on the left hand side) has taken liberties already with "out there" interpretations of ECM, Beagle, TAG range, etc, and so on.

Moving forward anyway, A Battletech addendum, said a mech running, for example a 175 engine, could not be forced to mount the additional 3 heat sinks, it could use that tonnage and space for other equipment.

The trade off, the mech simply runs hotter.

The neg 2 rating on the standard 60 Urbie mech, (I understand what PGI have done) Is actually an interpretation of the above rules.

What I want is the 4 of 5 tons of heat sinks towards other equipment.

Edited by Dar1ng One, 10 April 2015 - 04:27 AM.

[Egomane]

Dar1ng One, on 10 April 2015 - 04:26 AM, said:

What I want is the 4 of 5 tons of heat sinks towards other equipment.

There are no 4 or 5 tons!

The heatsinks are supposed to be weight free and to simulate that their weight is subtracted from the engine weight in MWO.

If you want to remove the heatsink limitation, I want the real engine weight back. Suddenly the -2.5 ton 60 rated urbie reactor would weigh 5.5 tons (1.5 tons from the reactor itself, 1 ton from the gyro and 3 tons from the cockpit which would still be included). Al reactors below 250 would gain weight. You would gain nothing but lose heat capacity. Fine by me!

Cheating the Battletech universe construction limits, with a loophole in MWOs implementation of them, is not a fix.

[Mr D One]

Egomane, on 10 April 2015 - 04:39 AM, said:

There are no 4 or 5 tons!

The heatsinks are supposed to be weight free and to simulate that their weight is subtracted from the engine weight in MWO.

Cheating the Battletech universe construction limits, with a loophole in MWOs implementation of them, is not a fix.

Agreed

What about the compulsory 3 heat sinks that are made to fit in the mech chassis of a 180 rated engine. They occupy space of 3 critical slots, (9 if you make them double). Are they part of the engine weight or part of the engine actual?

[Egomane]

Dar1ng One, on 10 April 2015 - 05:05 AM, said:

Agreed

What about the compulsory 3 heat sinks that are made to fit in the mech chassis of a 180 rated engine. They occupy space of 3 critical slots, (9 if you make them double). Are they part of the engine weight or part of the engine actual?

It's both actually. They are part of the engine weight in so far as their weight has been subtracted from the reactorweight in MWO. To get back to the correct weight of the reactor, their weight would need to be added to the reactor again.

As they are already a part in the original weight calculation and the Battletech universe is telling us, that every reactor has to come with 10 heatsinks, they are also a part of the reactor, even though they are external.

I see those mandatory external reactor heatsinks as a limited form to represent the fact, that in a lighter mechs there should be less room available as in a heavier and bulkier mech. As it is mostly those lighter mechs that run these small reactors it makes sense in a limited fashion.

[Strum Wealh]

Dar1ng One, on 10 April 2015 - 04:26 AM, said:

Moving forward anyway, A Battletech addendum, said a mech running, for example a 175 engine, could not be forced to mount the additional 3 heat sinks, it could use that tonnage and space for other equipment.

As they say on the wikis, "citation needed".

Even the official FrankenMech rules (Strategic Operations, pgs. 189-190) and the alternate construction rules found in Maximum Tech (pgs. 57-64) require that the 'Mech carry at least ten Heat Sinks & that all Heat Sinks be of the same type.

[SockSlayer]

While I think minimum heat sinks should not be removed(after all, if that happened, theoretically, the pilot would burst into flames...), I think since engines already come with heat sinks regardless of size, and also because you can't use a mech with no engine anyway, the minimum should be less than ten, probably about 5 for lights, the rest don't have as much as a problem with the minimum heat sink requirement.