17 replies to this topic

[JC Daxion]

I am curious why modules can not be bought.. I realize that you can save C-bills, and use MC to buy mechs instead, so you have a stock of extra credits. But you know how it is, that Next module ding is something that you may not pay attention too.. and well..

Or perhaps an XP conversion sale hits, and you use up gobs of that XP you have been saving for just that occasion, and wan't to pop a few new modules in your mech..


ahh well, you get it, I am just curious why modules are the only thing it seems like we can not buy

[sneeking]

the vast difference between a new mech with no basics and one with master module elite and 2x basics is staggering, that would almost certainly be classed as pay to win by my reasoning.

[Koniving]

To me it'd be a skip the grind method. The issue is either the modules would have to get cheaper by cbill standards, or the MC equal to what it costs in MC to buy "6 million cbill" mechs. Which would then make their prices quite high.

But I do agree with Sneeking. The vast difference between new mechs and mastered mechs is huge. There was mention of revamping the skill system for things that don't hit examples like this: "Kinetic burst. Increases the acceleration of your mech by 22.5%" which after Elites becomes 2x basics, "55.5%" It's my personal hope that we see numbers in the 2 to 8% range, so that 2x becomes 4 to 16% but no higher.

Note, however, that "pilot skills unlocks" and modules are not linked.

[sneeking]

I kind of see the whole process of grinding the gxp and Cbill to unlock and purchase modules as been one and the same , as is the mech tree seen as all three attributes are progressed concurrently during play.

I worry about your bonus percentages there, your probably right in terms of balanced play between the haves and have nots. just weeks ago I had nothing and it seemed impossible. I couldn't move I couldn't see no zoom almost useless radar ( real tough ) now I have this nice full elite yen lo goes over 100kph with BAP adv sensorx2 zoom I can see the radar works and I selfishly don't want it nerfed lol.

[Koniving]

The advanced sensor won't change. But the acceleration, brakes, speed, boot-up speed, twist speed, etc. will change. Make it more giant stompy robot-like I hope.

[sneeking]

when I break cover to fire on a big mech by time I get off three ac2 and a laser reverse and cover iv usualy worn at least one erppc gauss or ac20, taking their extra armour to consideration against that of my medium unit the trade for those weapon damage points should be about fair. the reduction of those movement values could see me take two hits during such an exchange if I employ the same strategy.

only an opinion mind you, I never got the calculator out

[Greyboots]

sneeking, on 25 November 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

the vast difference between a new mech with no basics and one with master module elite and 2x basics is staggering, that would almost certainly be classed as pay to win by my reasoning.

Nah. I only have like 2 of each module. One will be in-game on a mech and I can still put it on a second mech. then just pull them back out of the other one once it's out of combat.

You don't actually need modules for every mech. I will buy more eventually but it's not like they are "must have" or anything, having 3 of each is any more powerful than having 2 of each, just more convenient.

I'd never personally spend MC on Modules but I wouldn't be opposed to them being available for MC either.

"You can't buy weapons etc for MC" is not really true. Every time you buy a mech you get equipment that you can pull off and put on any other mech. You can buy anything except XP (although you can shuffle it) for MC if you are prepared to throw the money at the game to do so. You can just buy a mech for MC and then sell it for cBills and buy what you want.

4000MC = about 5 mil cBills. That makes the most expensive modules about 5000 MC (which is cheaper than most champion or Hero heavy and assault mechs).

Edited by Greyboots, 26 November 2013 - 02:28 AM.

[Modo44]

You can buy anything with MC. Just get a mech for MC, and sell it for Cbills. With the ability right there, keeping the roundabout way is idiotic.

[sneeking]

at 50% loss on the mech Cbill value alone ( everything you sell is half right? ) before figuring the $us to MC conversion rate id call it prohibitive.

[cleghorn6]

I could see value in having to "earn" your first module for GXP but being able to buy 2nd and subsequent modules of the same type for MC.

But I think modules are a solid economic sink for players who spend all their time on MWO. High cost means you're still playing for something when you're 1000 hours in. So I doubt we will see a change.

[sneeking]

I agree with that greyboots, you dont need too much of anything for each mech.
im swapping parts ( even guns ammo beagle ams engines ) between my three centurion variants not just modules I have two adv zoom but only one adv sensor range at this point.

[Redshift2k5]

JC Daxion, on 25 November 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

I am curious why modules can not be bought.. I realize that you can save C-bills, and use MC to buy mechs instead, so you have a stock of extra credits. But you know how it is, that Next module ding is something that you may not pay attention too.. and well..

Or perhaps an XP conversion sale hits, and you use up gobs of that XP you have been saving for just that occasion, and wan't to pop a few new modules in your mech..


ahh well, you get it, I am just curious why modules are the only thing it seems like we can not buy

Engines, weapons, upgrades (think double heatsinks or endo) AND modules cannot be bought with money.

you can use money to get to these things faster (premium time, XP conversion) but you can't buy the directly this helps lessen the 'wallet warrior' from being able to buy his way to the top immediately. Even wallet warrior must earn some of their progression like everyone else.

The option to shortcut your way to lots of GXP/C-bills also serves as an incentive for people to spend. The more we all spend the better our game will be!

[JC Daxion]

sneeking, on 25 November 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

the vast difference between a new mech with no basics and one with master module elite and 2x basics is staggering, that would almost certainly be classed as pay to win by my reasoning.

I don't understand this reasoning at all.. You can already Buy 3 mechs, and then convert to elite through GXP and poof i have a maxed out elite level mech, with all module slots unlocked.

I don't see how buying a module is all of a sudden pay to win.

You spent how much time playing, to get that XP in the first place..


Let's not mention the fact, that if say i am a light pilot, 20m might get me 3 lights, all outfited and on my way to a module, but if i wanna be an assault pilot, that might not even get me one mech outfited.. (i think i payed over 23m for my atlas the way i wanted it)

to me, the pricing on things, and how you buy stuff is kind of off, and really makes zero sence, modules just happen to be a huge time sink, especially if you are into larger mechs on top of it.. or like to play different styles so that you need to get many different modules.

If you can grind it, or buy it, then it is not pay to win.. it is pay to win, when buying is the only way to get it

[scJazz]

Modo44, on 26 November 2013 - 02:44 AM, said:

You can buy anything with MC. Just get a mech for MC, and sell it for Cbills. With the ability right there, keeping the roundabout way is idiotic.

JC Daxion, on 26 November 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

I don't understand this reasoning at all.. You can already Buy 3 mechs, and then convert to elite through GXP and poof i have a maxed out elite level mech, with all module slots unlocked.

I don't see how buying a module is all of a sudden pay to win.

You spent how much time playing, to get that XP in the first place..

If you can grind it, or buy it, then it is not pay to win.. it is pay to win, when buying is the only way to get it

JC... Modules are "late game" pieces.

You can in a round about fashion use MC to buy them... just buy a Champion Jenner- F and sell the XL engine.

This isn't as efficient a route than you want and this is intentional. Again Modules are "late game" content. You can grind an extra 45000 XP in a mech and convert it for 1800 MC... ~$8. Then buy and sell the Champion Jenners for about 2.5m CB each and buy your modules.

If you want to do this the choice is yours.

Given the fact that MC prices for Mechs is fairly fixed... as has been mentioned many times... just straight buying Modules for MC will have a price tag that is fairly high. Few will use it.

Add to that the fact that this is "late game" content that legitimately requires a grind PGI is really unlikely to add it.

You have been given the backdoor... use it, or not, but stop complaining that you need a front door

[Greyboots]

JC Daxion, on 26 November 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

to me, the pricing on things, and how you buy stuff is kind of off, and really makes zero sence, modules just happen to be a huge time sink, especially if you are into larger mechs on top of it.. or like to play different styles so that you need to get many different modules.

The pricing structure made sense once upon a time. Buying stuff for MC was how you threw money at the Devs to develop the game and not really "for yourself". This pricing structure is just losing relevance is all. When it stops garnering them the income they're looking for they'll sit down and change it.

Currently it garners a much larger income from the more affluent players which isn't a bad thing. It accelerates their advancement by bypassing the money grind but there's still the solid cap that "you can't buy XP" and although you can buy unique variants, they aren't inherently any more powerful than any other mech.

Eventually though, it will be altered to make money from a larger number of smaller payments. First we'll see a price drop in Paint and the rest will follow.

Quote

If you can grind it, or buy it, then it is not pay to win.. it is pay to win, when buying is the only way to get it

Early on, you have to concern yourself with advancement. Money and XP are a BIG deal and to a certain extent this controls how you play. I have mechs that are set up to not only be beneficial to my team but also to generate money (based on the principles to be found here).

It's not "pay to win", it's "pay for Freedom" by being able to bypass knowing how to efficiently earn money. You can just buy your mechs and then upgrade them as you play to level them up rather than having to save for a new mech.

That's the only real difference on offer. Well, and your mechs can look pretty and you can swap Mech XP for GXP and get modules faster I guess.

scJazz, on 26 November 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

JC... Modules are "late game" pieces.

I completely disagree. They are intended as a late game piece but whether that's what they actually are is another matter.

It's clear that you can't buy Modules for cBills because they are a money sink which is supposed to be siphoning money out of your account when you start to run out of other things to spend cBills on. "Late game" is an economy concern which doesn't necessarily work in application.

Modules increase cBill and XP earnings which are of most benefit early on when you are struggling to fill your mech bay with competitive mechs. Having a selection of the important modules can most certainly expedite this process.

Edited by Greyboots, 26 November 2013 - 12:59 PM.

[Modo44]

scJazz, on 26 November 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

Given the fact that MC prices for Mechs is fairly fixed... as has been mentioned many times... just straight buying Modules for MC will have a price tag that is fairly high. Few will use it.

You realize that you basically said "the UI is **** on purpose", right?

[Nick Makiaveli]

cleghorn6, on 26 November 2013 - 03:08 AM, said:

I could see value in having to "earn" your first module for GXP but being able to buy 2nd and subsequent modules of the same type for MC.

But I think modules are a solid economic sink for players who spend all their time on MWO. High cost means you're still playing for something when you're 1000 hours in. So I doubt we will see a change.

That sounds like a great idea. No serious argument for P2W since more than one is just convenient not more powerful as someone said above.

[Buckminster]

JC Daxion, on 26 November 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

Let's not mention the fact, that if say i am a light pilot, 20m might get me 3 lights, all outfited and on my way to a module, but if i wanna be an assault pilot, that might not even get me one mech outfited.. (i think i payed over 23m for my atlas the way i wanted it)

to me, the pricing on things, and how you buy stuff is kind of off, and really makes zero sence, modules just happen to be a huge time sink, especially if you are into larger mechs on top of it.. or like to play different styles so that you need to get many different modules.

I think the C-bill pricing of things was based on the old TT books. I'm not 100% sure on the pricing of the upgrades (DHS, ES, FF, Artemis), but for the actual prices of the mechs themselves, it's canon.