66 replies to this topic

[White Bear 84]

I keep it simple, run with stock back armor.. ..top it up if i have spare space.

If you reveal your back to the enemy long enough, bar being flanked, chased by lights or 100k+ mediums, then you are doing something wrong.

Even then, the most you should be pestered by is lights running around, a good team would not get flanked so rear armor should not be a problem.

NB: Another thing to note - consider why enemy team charges forward or over ridge when you go off to chase 1 light; the whole team have just revealed their backs. Please do not do this...

[DodgerH2O]

To echo another light pilot in this thread, my Jenners thank all of you who skimp on rear armor for making my job easier. Last couple games I played in a group we had two Jenners and two mobile heavy hitters. The Victor and Shadowhawk would take the attention and then us two lights would get behind the bad guys and bring them to red internals in one good pass. Two to three alphas and everything lighter than 80 tons is down or close enough to it that they can't afford to make a single mistake.

Personally my numbers are a closely guarded secret but generally if I'm mostly doing long-range fire I put less rear armor as most damage will come from the front. If I have jumpjets I put less rear armor as I have more control over where I take damage (increased turn radius from jumping). If I brawl I put more rear armor as there will come a time someone gets behind me for a shot or two, and if I'm in certain mechs where I spend a lot of time running away I put even more rear armor.

Also the better I get, the more comfortable I am with reallocating armor to the front. If my teammates are doing their job and I'm doing my job then it's less likely we'll be flanked. If we are severely flanked then an extra 10 points wouldn't have made much of a difference anyway.

Edited by DodgerH2O, 23 January 2014 - 06:16 PM.

[FERAL TIGER]

OPs idea is a tad extreme, but isn't a terrible process. What I've come to learn is that when pugging, or playing against pugs, you need a mech built for every occasion. For the most part, frontal shots is where 85% of damage goes. 10% erratically hits elsewhere, and 5% are the people on this thread saying they purposefully hit the rear armor etc... etc... Will probably lower my rear armor this weekend as see how far it gets me (or doesn't for that matter)

[Tesunie]

I find rear armor is subject to how I use the mech. For example, my Dragon needed more rear armor, as I move quickly around the field, I find I tend to show my back to someone somewhere down the line. I also tend to circle opponents for a little while with my target in the farthest corner of my screen, meaning they can hit my rear if they aim well enough. I also tend to reverse my circle from time to time, but showing my rear (if I have armor) so I can continue to gain distance from my target, instead of charging into them with the same action.

My Stalker (and other assaults), I've been known to wait till I was out of front armor, and then twist my rear to them for a few hits, so I've been known to also place a little more protection back there. They are also known for being easier to get behind, and I don't want a small light to rip me apart too quickly from the rear.

My Hunchback on the other hand (I have a 4SP with LRMs) normally doesn't get attacked from behind too much, and doesn't turn it's back to the enemy often. So I have it a little thinner on him, as he doesn't need it as much out back, and needs more of it out front, as I'm normally either advancing towards the enemy, or keeping locks on them as I back up, depending upon if I need to do some cutting work with my lasers, or just don't want to get that close to that giant brawler...

[MungFuSensei]

On an assault that isn't sitting back and sniping, I'd carry more, but anything else I run 10. If a spot is really tiny, like the right side of the hunchy, you can sneak by with less. Once in a blue moon this will ******* in the *** (pun not intended), but most of the time I'm paying enough attention to where the enemies are that it's not a problem.

If you're in a position where you need more armor than that, you've done something wrong. Cover fire from teammates is better than any armor you could get.

[Will HellFire]

10/12/10 in all my Mechs.

I used to run ore, until I had a chat with one of the best pilots in this game. I changed my armor to 10/12/10 after that and Im sticking with it.

For one: it increases my survivability on front facing firefights incredibly. I can go head to head at close range with heavier Mechs and have a fair chance. Or stand longer in a long range firefight.

For two: situational awareness is key to protecting your rear. If you move with the group and stay aware of your surroundings, you can evade most read shots. 10/12/10 is enough to withstand a PPC shot in the rear, which is good enough for me. If a howle lance of Jenners manages to sneak up my back, theres not much I can do anyway.

For three: ALWAYS react to damage in your rear. This is a common mistake I see when I ride in people's cockpits or a I pilot lights myself. Syncyng your rear shots to damage in the front seems to work wonders and people do not usually get aware of whats happening until youve had 2-4 shots.

For four: The main problem with running so few armor in the rear is honestly Friendly Fire. But what can you do about it.

[The Great Unwashed]

Will HellFire, on 24 January 2014 - 12:56 AM, said:

The main problem with running so few armor in the rear is honestly Friendly Fire. But what can you do about it.

My tiny light is often the recipient of FF shots to the back, but rarely (if ever) fatal; I just have to lower my expectations for surviving much longer. I know many people would like to see that I stick to the main group using my ECM but FF is the main reason I do not. When using VOIP and our own lance, this is almost never a problem. This works both ways; I also tend to hit my team when they walk in front of my zoom window while firing lasers (other mechs have breaks too, right?)

I think that people who reduce back armor should be the ones who always react to rear damage and know how to turn their torsos. I've had trouble getting behind players in an Atlas, for crying out loud, and some players who are most adept at using arm armor taking an infinite amount of time to take down (getting killed by those players is great fun, much better than the odd twin gauss hit from afar). If you are not one of those people I suppose you could carry more back armor.

Well-coordinated twin Jenner attacks are almost most dangerous for all mechs...

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 24 January 2014 - 01:16 AM.

[MungFuSensei]

Will HellFire, on 24 January 2014 - 12:56 AM, said:

For four: The main problem with running so few armor in the rear is honestly Friendly Fire. But what can you do about it.

So much rage over this. Especially the trigger happy ******** at the start of the match. "Sorry, didn't mean it". That's great, you ripped open my back and put my side torso into the yellow, but you're sorry. That's cool.

[Doctor Proctor]

MungFuSensei, on 24 January 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

So much rage over this. Especially the trigger happy ******** at the start of the match. "Sorry, didn't mean it". That's great, you ripped open my back and put my side torso into the yellow, but you're sorry. That's cool.

Yeah, I never understood the FF at beginning of the match. I love seeing the pretty pew pew lasers too, but I fire at the ground rather than straight in front of me where my teammates are standing. You don't even need fire control, just a little bit of common sense...

[Fuerchtegott]

BaconCouch, on 23 January 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

So, question is, how much rear armor for a given weight class, and WHY?

Wrong question.
Read armor depends on size of hitbox and playstyle.

A light sniping whith his puny erppc from the side of the battlefield needs less rear armor than the typical scout or a jenner which both will be more often shoot in the back.

Weigh class is the wrong perspective and ends in the wrong question.

[TygerLily]

I generally stick to 12/18/12 or thereabout...

Obviously, smaller mechs don't follow this amount but starting around 40 or 45 tons, that's my rule.

Also, certain mechs have their own considerations, for example the Jagermech. I generally keep that even across the board since it's back is huge...probably the same with Awesomes but I play them very little...

Edited by TygerLily, 24 January 2014 - 07:33 AM.

[BaconCouch]

I think the consensus here is you need more rear armor if you aren't being really supported by your teammates, or are otherwise cut off since lights against a single target are a large concern. But in the current long range gunline meta, I find I usually have 3-4 mechs within 300 meters of me most of the time. If I dont, something has gone horribly wrong.

From a playstyle perspective, it seems snipers need the least, Lrm boats need very little, but anything that means to brawl ought to give it some extra consideration?

I still find, despite the light mech pilots boasting they do this as a matter of routine, I don't find it being a major problem if the group stays tight (I mean...nobody has lances running off from the main body to engage another single lance, lets face it). Which is why I switched my light mech to a sniper build with ER LL's

[John Buford]

Here is the thing about why you need to have more than just the Wallpaper armor on your rear. When you get into a fight with that Mech over there is when that light shoots you in the back multiple times.

[MungFuSensei]

John Buford, on 25 January 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

Here is the thing about why you need to have more than just the Wallpaper armor on your rear. When you get into a fight with that Mech over there is when that light shoots you in the back multiple times.

Best defense against wolfpack lights is a teammate. A light needs to constantly move. The only time he can stop and take an aimed shot is when no one's paying attention to him. Any other time all he can do is a quick swipe and run away. If you're paying attention, and stick with a buddy, the light won't have the time to wreck your back.

[Mokou]

The Great Unwashed, on 23 January 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

= 10*max armor/ engine rating

Good idea

2.5 rear armor on AWS-9M?!
upd
Ah... i understand... full armor from all mech... 13 rear armor looks better.

Edited by Mokou, 26 January 2014 - 12:53 AM.

[Krujiente]

A: no light is going to go for a dragon's back when it has that delicious giant torso hump in the front, can drag a full laser shot over it at full speed
B: I usually get away on mediums and heavies with 8-16, more or less based on how agile the mech is or how big the hitbox is. The goal is knowing when a light is circling behind you and twisting the opposite way he is running, he'll shoot your arm off. I brawl quite a big and most of my rear coring issues are from retreating (when you can't protect your rear torso well) without any cover fire providing by team mates and no cover to duck between. JJs let you spin FAST, but I tend to torso twist pretty good even without it. Tends to be a non issue for the most part.

[The Great Unwashed]

Hmm, as an ECM light I frequently circle around the enemy team and start attacking from the rear at max ERLLdistance. You'd be surprised how many players do not notice their armor evaporating, especially when engaged with your own team. The efficacy of this tactic depends greatly on the map; Tourmaline Desert and Alpine Peaks are a good example where it may work.

If they do turn on you, you have been of great help by robbing the enemy of one or two heavies engaging your team and chasing you.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 27 January 2014 - 05:08 AM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

This thread confirms why I love running mediums and core out peoples backs all the time.

[SniperCon]

As a light pilot, it is important to have 23 or 33 points of survivability (armor + structure) from the back and head. The reason is so that you don't get one shotted by an AC20 and still have enough points to twist away from laser shots if anyone sees a juicy red spot on your paper doll. If it doesn't cut too much into your front armor 33 points will survive the common 30 point 2xPPC 2xAC5 strike, though this is not as important as convergence / bullet speed will sometimes spread some of the damage.

The same principle can apply to bigger mechs. It might be worthwhile to have 63 or 93 points of survivability (2x, 3x Jenner alphas) whichever doesn't cut too much into your front armor.

[JD R]

It look like you are ignoring one big fact.

Rear armor means you can turn around and run if you rear armor is weak you wont turn and run because you know you will die so you lose the retreat as a tactical alternativ. And retreat means you can fight after **** happens and the **** didnt cost your live.