66 replies to this topic

[BaconCouch]

Morning fellow mechwarriors.
During my time here on the forums, ive seen some conflicting opinions on how much armor on the back of your mech is best.
I've found with the mechs I run, and good torso twisting habits, I really have no problems with rear armor, 95% of my being knocked out of a match is from being cored from the front.

For example, my best mech, a dragon 5N

DRG-5N

10 armor on the back, by comparison, 70 on that big big nose the equivalent of heavy mechs 15-20 tons above me, keeping me tanking through hits that would cripple other dragons, and using my speed to avoid getting rear shotted or flanked, while my gooey innards remain unscathed.

Heck, I run my highlander 733c brawler, with 10 armor on the rear, and over 110 on the front, giving me the lifespan of an atlas, with jump jets, assuming someone keeps lights from flanking me, i can shred people with the ultra ac5 and srm fire.

HGN-733C

So, question is, how much rear armor for a given weight class, and WHY?

[The Great Unwashed]

On behalf of all other light pilots; congratulations with your rear armor choice and may you continue to carry the wallpaper equivalent as protection.

I use 10-12 on the rear on my light (35 tons) and it is very flimsy. Protecting yourself against a twin Gauss hit might be difficult for most mechs, but I'd take 20 pts at least to avoid getting your back shot out by lights. I try shooting out the back of heavies and assaults when I can. 10pts of rear armor and an XL engine is just... very dangerous.

A rear armor guide/discussion is useful. My 10 points are not always enough as I tend to stand still with my light...

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 23 January 2014 - 07:05 AM.

[BaconCouch]

But again, I understand lights would shoot at it if they knew I had it. But lights don't kill me from behind, and if it gets bad enough i'll put my back to a wall. I think tactics and proper support can mitigate that risk, but that is just me.

I usually do 10 on my rear armor for my raven as well, but for that class it makes sense.

[627]

nearly all my mechs in all weight classes have 10 back armor. with few exception in assault class where back CT get 15 points.

Only locusts have less back armor of course.

[WonderSparks]

So far (except for the Locust) I -always- use 10 points on the rear CT and 8 on either side of the rear, from my Raven to my Atlases. Why? Simply because I found that it usually works out well for me, the exceptions to this being times when someone actually sneaks up on me (Me? ME!?) and manages to hit me hard enough to do considerable damage. Like with a Gauss Rifle or ER PPC.
So yeah, not a lot of protection back there, but I usually don't need much there anyways.

[AaronWolf]

I have a very basic 10/12/10 on my mediums. And 8/10/8 on my lights.

Since I am almost always facing my targets and work really hard to position myself near walls and other things so my back is a very hard target.

I'm really paranoid about lights though getting behind my mediums. So I try and make a "No Zone" like one of the other posters said on here awhile back. It is where Lights just don't want to go to get at my back.

To combat snipers, I always got my head on a swivel though. I never stay looking one direction.

So overall, I keep my back armor very light to be honest.

When I do run heavies/assaults, I put a lot more on. You are by far a larger target, and have much less maneuverability, best have the defense.

[DONTOR]

The thing about low armor on the rear of an assult... say an Atlas is that even when your rear armor is gone you still have 60 internal health so its not a huge deal if its broken through, as long as you catch it in time. Dragons benefit greatly from front loaded armor, they are fast enough to keep the front facng most enemies, and the CT is huge also.

However most of my mechs have XL engines and Im not gong to skimp much on rear side torsos, in fear of a suprise alpha one shotting me.

[MoonUnitBeta]

I use this forumla that I just made up right now to calculate my armor rating.

10 * Max Armor / Engine Rating = Min. Armor per Rear Torso.
(thanks for simplifying my formula The Great Unwashed!)

Atlas using 400 rated engine: 15 armor on rear torso's.
Atlas using 200 rated engine: 30 armor on rear torso's.

Jenner using 300 rated engine: 8 armor on rear torso's
Jenner using 200 rated engine: 12 armor on rear torso's

I have no idea if I like this or not. I was just messing around lol. The idea is that with a lower engine rating, the slower you can turn to react to damage incomming from the rear, or turn to mitigate frontal damage.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 27 January 2014 - 08:09 AM.

[LuInRei]

Generally, the larger your mech is and the slower your engine allows you to twist - the more back armor you need.

I usually have no less than 11 on anything other than lights and up to 25 on the "center torso rear", and a little less on the sides (since they are smaller).

[990Dreams]

If possible, I try to get at least 20 on the rear armor and 40 on the Front.

All I need is to survive one AC/20. Then I can turn around and correct my error of not looking back.

[BaconCouch]

See, but most things packing an AC20...Are not stealthy, small, or fast enough to get behind a mech like that.
So more likely, by my logic, you would be two AC20 shots from losing your front armor?

Or thats my logic at least.

[Bilbo]

BaconCouch, on 23 January 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

See, but most things packing an AC20...Are not stealthy, small, or fast enough to get behind a mech like that.
So more likely, by my logic, you would be two AC20 shots from losing your front armor?

Or thats my logic at least.

A Jenner can put 30 in your back and can be all those things.

[ShadowbaneX]

Lights try to balance front/rear armour as you spent a fair amount of time running away from things. For larger mechs I try to keep it so that the numbers stay at about tonnage ranges. For instance the one medium I have (Shadow Hawks) are 16 on the CT and 12 on the STs. I think my heavies are the same. Assaults get a little extra 20 on the RCT, 16 on the RSTs. I think my Atlai might be 24/20, but it's been a while since I've played them.

[Xiphias]

BaconCouch, on 23 January 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

See, but most things packing an AC20...Are not stealthy, small, or fast enough to get behind a mech like that.
So more likely, by my logic, you would be two AC20 shots from losing your front armor?

Or thats my logic at least.

As Bilbo said, a Jenner can put 30 points into your back. A pair can put 60 and a coordinated lance can put over 100 which is enough to oneshot a mech.

Running 12 mans once, my lance of 3 Jenners 5-6 ML each and a 3MPL spider found a Victor lagging behind the group at the start of the match on Terra Therma. We timed a coordinated strike on his rear CT and killed him in the first salvo, he had 0 damage for the match, didn't even have time to start turning around.

Not that he would have survived if he had more rear armor, but rear armor can be important. You can usually get away with little rear armor, but keep in mind that there are good light pilots that will get behind you and when they do it will hurt. Not saying you should change it if it works for you, but keep it in mind.

I personally love it when heavy mechs run light on the rear armor, so carry on.

[Cest7]

80/20 all around or 70/30 for lights.

[The Great Unwashed]

"MoonUnitBeta said:

[font=courier new' date='courier,monospace']Max Armor * Tonnage / Engine Rating / [font=courier new,courier,monospace][font=courier new,courier,monospace](Tonnage/10)[/font][/font] = Min. Armor per Rear Torso[/font].

= 10*max armor/ engine rating

Good idea

[Blackwolf 1 1]

Call me paranoid, but it's rare that I run less than 30% armor on my back, regardless of the weight class. I could probably get away with shifting some with the front, but I hate the idea of getting killed from behind.

I'm primarily a light and medium pilot, and can usually get behind enemies before hitting them. Since I'm pretty proficient at it, I tend to carry more armor on my back, just in case someone else does the same to me.

[Elyam]

Ah, I see what you did there...

It actually isn't a bad formula, but needs adjustment. Going to think on it..................

[Doctor Proctor]

It's a hard thing to figure out actually, and is heavily dependent on play style. For example, I find that I often die quicker on certain chassis if I make the rear armor too thin due to the fact that I'm heavily torso twist and running away, and can't really tank hits with the backside well. Hunchbacks and Catapults, for example, suffer from this for me. Not saying I put an extreme amount of armor back there, just that there's a big difference for me between having 10 armor on a rear armor panel or 16 armor there for certain mechs.

Ideally you want your front and rear armor falling off at around the same time, since that means that you're maximizing the life of your internal structure by tanking as much damage as possible with the external armor. Having one go down significantly before the other just means you have a weak spot that someone with a lock on you can exploit possibly. It's for questions like this that I really wish we could get more post match information, such as a detailed look at damage received and in which locations. It would make these sorts of decisions much easier and data driven as opposed to simply being about gut instinct.

[MoonUnitBeta]

The Great Unwashed, on 23 January 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

= 10*max armor/ engine rating

Good idea

Thanks hahah..., I uhh... Yeah, I barely passed Math 11 in highschool. Thanks for simplifying it!