17 replies to this topic

[Prezimonto]

The idea is simple and is wanderer and Traugolodyte's.
http://mwomercs.com/...60#entry3114274
Can we get a second set of artillery modules that don't do damage, but do fill the "landing" zone with a dense pillar of smoke?

Use the current artillery as a model, with one that fills a circle and one that creates a line/wall of smoke.

Have the upgrades increase the size and the density of the smoke (rather than decrease radius and increase shells).

This would provide a set of tactical choices on the map. Do I advance under cover, but give away my relative position?

Because it's all artillery/airstrikes, put them all on the same global cool down. Now players have to choose, tactics or damage for the next 10 to 20 seconds.

Do you like it? Why?
Do you not like it? Why?

How/what would you different?

Edited by Prezimonto, 31 January 2014 - 12:56 PM.

[wanderer]

Heh, I actually had that idea on the second page of the topic, but there you go.

Yes. Something that temporarily nixes LOS would be a handy defensive tool, much more so than a mere "LRM shield" of chaff that has much less, situational use.

Likewise, a module that showed where -any- fire was coming from, not just LRMs would be worth a module slot, while one that only shows where those slow, warning-blaring LRMs are coming from is...well,a failure.

So yeah. Gimme smoke, please.

[Prezimonto]

wanderer, on 31 January 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

Heh, I actually had that idea on the second page of the topic, but there you go.

Fixed

[Sandpit]

I think it would be a great addition to what we already have. You could set it up exactly like air and arty strikes are used now. Aim and fire. This wouldn't just be a defensive measure either. You could use it to drop smoke right in the middle of a camping spot so that mechs have to come out of their hidey holes to see and shoot.

I'd have it set up similar to what was described for chaff. An area affect of about 30 meters or so and last for xx amount of seconds (that is the part I think would need the most tweaking as duration would be a huge thing for this) and have it where LoS is blocked but NARC would still broadcast as well as letting other modules have affects on this. (Targeting computer maybe? A new sensor module in piloting skills maybe?) This would be a great way to help the slower mechs that get caught out in the open on certain maps (Tourmaline comes into mind due to new spawn points. You can literally start getting LRMs rained down on your head within the first 30 seconds of the match with nowhere to go).

It could also be used as a feint. Dropping it into a known chokepoint so the enemy turns expecting mechs to come through only to be flanked. It's only smoke so it wouldn't stop damage. Direct fire weapons could still fire blindly into the smoke making it dangerous to just derp through it slowly.

i really do like the idea though.

Another idea for implementation could be instead of firing it out like air and arty it could be implemented as a spot on the mech itself that disperses the smoke out from around the mech itself or trails out behind it while moving. (Although I personally feel firing it off like arty would be a better way to implement it)

[Tewaz]

Smoke just needs to obscure vision and lock-on of enemy and allied mechs and the meta is completely revolutionized. It would be so elegant and wonderful! Poptarts jump sniping over on that ridge? 400m between closest cover and them? Lay down smoke for that approach instead of getting pawned!

I would prefer a none module implementation of smoke and an overhaul of the current consumable module system but I ain't gonna be nit picky

+1

[Daggett]

Tewaz, on 01 February 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

Smoke just needs to obscure vision and lock-on of enemy and allied mechs and the meta is completely revolutionized. It would be so elegant and wonderful! Poptarts jump sniping over on that ridge? 400m between closest cover and them? Lay down smoke for that approach instead of getting pawned!

It's not that easy. They just need to switch to heat-vision to see through smoke.
But it would at least add a small additional skill-level to the game.

A interesting upgrade to such a module could be that the smoke is hot, like steam.
This would block sight even in Heat-vision, but maybe at the cost of a small heat-penalty for the mechs inside.
This way it could even be used offensively by dropping the smoke on those enemy laser-boats...

One problem however is that excessive smoke could be used for grieving. Such massive smoke for example must be very performant to not grief players with slower machines. The original Counter Strike mod suffered from this. At the time i played this it was an unwritten rule to not use those damn smoke grenades

[Prezimonto]

I'm going to bump this.

With the advent of consumable slots, can we get some new consumables? Ones that add variety to the tactics on the battle field?

[Prezimonto]

Daggett, on 01 February 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

It's not that easy. They just need to switch to heat-vision to see through smoke.
But it would at least add a small additional skill-level to the game.

A interesting upgrade to such a module could be that the smoke is hot, like steam.
This would block sight even in Heat-vision, but maybe at the cost of a small heat-penalty for the mechs inside.
This way it could even be used offensively by dropping the smoke on those enemy laser-boats...

One problem however is that excessive smoke could be used for grieving. Such massive smoke for example must be very performant to not grief players with slower machines. The original Counter Strike mod suffered from this. At the time i played this it was an unwritten rule to not use those damn smoke grenades

Given the we have Arty and Air strikes that deal REAL damage, I wouldn't be upset if smoke arty dealt some heat damage and negated thermal view as well.

[Mitsuragi]

I like this idea. It would be very powerful on tera thermal and tourmaline where thermal vision isn't a go-to.

[CocoaJin]

I have a hard time imagining a situation where I could drop smoke on the enemy instead of smiting their asses with fire and brimstone. I'm not saying the situation doesn't exist, but I need to recognize the applicability of its use to justify its inclusion.

I'm not insure I care to see resources sprint on an asset that will barely be used...though some might say that about my Flea, and to you, I say, "shuddap ya wise guy, nyahh!".

Anyway, I'm just saying, convince me with some good examples I'd expect to run into on a frequent basis in the field.

Edited by CocoaJin, 31 July 2014 - 11:21 PM.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Reference smoke of any type:

- This has been brought up many times before.

For obscuring all vision the smoke only needs to be labeled as 'Multi-spectral'.
(IRL, metal particles embedded in the smoke so thermal can't see through it.)
- easily coded within the game engine.

Delivered by Arty, or point aimed LRM's
(LRM smoke was available in this timeline, but needs to be specifically loaded as a separate ammo type.)
- Launchers could fire either types. Game wise you would need to 'select' that ammo type to switch ammo feeds, then go back to regular LRM ammo.
(PGI can't code different ammo for one weapon, yet, so may not be doable. But they could bring in a separate LRM5 smoke launcher with it's own ammo.)

Uses:
example's,
1. 'Alpine' map, fired at points on the large hill slope to mask the movement of Mech's down on the lower ice fields.
2. "caustic valley' map, fired at the back caldera slopes to mask the movement of Mech's along the side slopes.
3. 'River City' map, fired at the upper city front to block any enemy sight from that area, same with the dropship area.
4. 'Forest Colony' map, fired along the road area to block sight of movement from either side, work both ways.
(could also be fired along the shoreline to mask any water movement)
Just some examples of where it 'could' be used.

Now there are some uses, but we are still restricted in having additional 'Smoke' displayed in game. Each render further driving down the framerate for lower end machines. Some good news is the DX11 code just got some great upgrades, with DX9c coming soon. SLI should be supported within the next few patch's, so hope for that.
- This engine is fully capable of having smoke on the battlefield, even mixed with fog, so that's not normally a limiting factor.

As a note here, Aerospace fighters normally didn't carry smoke as a payload. They left that to the ground based elements.

9erRed

[Kalimaster]

A smoke barrage would be nice. However I would recommend that you can only have smoke or full fledged bombardment, not both. That way the same keys are used to activate said item. However I think that the cost in C-Bills should be significantly lower than that of a standard barrage.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Smoke rounds for conventional Artillery normally 'cost' more than standard High Explosive. And are normally heavier.

- They have more components within the projectile and have timed/distance fuses. (normally)
- They include 4 or more smaller canisters that separate and dispense the smoke, normally ejected at some distance above the target location to spread the smoke. (hence the fused timer)
- Or they have 'proximity' fuses to eject at a distance above the target.

And one of the reasons for requiring more precise instructions for it's deployment. In this timeline I would assume that all this is automated and linked to numerous battlefield systems.

But Smoke rounds for consumable's should be more expensive, they are not standard arty loaded munitions and should require these elements to 'prepare' the ammo type.
- As a note, IRL these munitions are not available to sub units and normally held at Brigade level, with appropriate authority required to use.

9erRed

[Tim East]

If we're doing RL stuff, can we get DPICM rockets that more or less act like an AOE LBX AC? Tiny bomblets everywhere? That'd be hilarious.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

As a matter of fact these (DPICM) are available with the Arrow IV system, 'as of yet' not introduced but available in this timeline.

See here: http://www.sarna.net...r_Arrow_Missile (avail 3047)
- Striking 'Mechs or other vehicles resolve such hits as Shot from Above (someone say headshot?)

- PGI had mentioned they are having some difficulty with weapons systems that have different ammo types.
- The Arrow IV have quite a few warheads and ammo types as the timeline progress's.

The normal Arrow IV 'Homing missile' (3044), Designed to be used in conjunction with TAG, it was the artillery missile of choice for the Star League Defence Force due to the prevalence of ECM on the battlefield.
- The Homing Missile is treated as a standard artillery attack, except it ignores to-hit rolls and only attacks units successfully hit by a TAG.
- Both Clans and the IS have this systems during the invasion timeline.
- Homing missile does (tabletop) 20 damage directly and 10 radius damage.
Most likely should be increased due to the double armour values we have in game.

If your scouts can TAG the Enemy Mech and this is fired, as long as the TAG stays on the Mech, it's a personal 'service call' 1 on 1 delivery. If not TAG locked, then this missile will land on the spot (ground) that the TAG is located, area and radius damage now. (you really need to 'trust' your scouts with this, and they should be receiving bonus's for assisting in it's delivery.)

Note:
When the technology to create Arrow IVs was lost during the Star League's collapse, it was recovered by the Capellan Confederation engineers in 3044 working off of surviving examples and the Helm Memory Core.

(used this and watched the 'blast wave' effect in MW:LL, it's great!)

9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 02 August 2014 - 08:32 AM.

[CocoaJin]

9erRed, on 01 August 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

- As a note, IRL these munitions are not available to sub units and normally held at Brigade level, with appropriate authority required to use.

9erRed

This is one of the biggest issues I have with player controlled artillery...and is a major reason why I think it seems spammed. The more uncoordinated the individual deployments are, the more it'll feel spammed.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

@ CocoaJin

Yes, you are correct, until these consumables are relegated to only command and scout elements we will continue to see this type of play.
- The game 'awards' players for using these two items more than directly engaging Enemy Mech's currently
- If they were 'restricted' to elements that actually fielded a Command C3 network, I would understand
- As you stated, they should not be available to every player, just because they have a slot for it.

Standard Mech's have communications designed to operate within there company and sub unit. They normally do not have the means to contact the higher formations that control these two resources. That is where the Command Mech's come in, coordinating the battle and communications with other companies. Be it aerospace or ground units, the Command Mech's can call on any of the Regiments/Brigades units that are available.
- Do we need to have designations of the type of Comms held on each Mech?
- Yes, and it's already listed in the technical Spec's for each Mech chassis, so there's no need to design or invent this information.

PGI has given every Mech the Command C3 network as a default, this is not how the actual Tech, Lore or TT operated. Shared information of the Enemy and targets should work similar to how ECM bubbles are working, if your 'in the C3 bubble' or line of sight you get the updates. Outside, you can only depend on your current sensor suite and the standard Mech comms.
- This would also make it advantageous to 'upgrade' your Mech's sensors to the advanced level. Extending them to the 1000m or 1250m depending on BAP.
- And may require PGI to design an 'Update' for some Mech's with there C1 to C3 comms package, taking additional space and weight. (may even alter the Chassis model id, by adding an "- I", "- E" (improved/enhanced) to it's indicated id?)

This 'higher formation' Comms should be where all the 'off board' elements are available, be it Arty, Airstrikes, or Smoke deployments. You want these resources, then you'll need to ensure that there is a Command Mech or C3 equipped Scout of some type in the Drop.
- I had thought that this is where the Command Console would be used and the 'perks' of having one, but alas, not so.

This is directly linked to 'Role Warfare' and the bonus's and rewards for operating these systems and Mech's.

9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 03 August 2014 - 03:05 PM.

[Prezimonto]

CocoaJin, on 31 July 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

I have a hard time imagining a situation where I could drop smoke on the enemy instead of smiting their asses with fire and brimstone. I'm not saying the situation doesn't exist, but I need to recognize the applicability of its use to justify its inclusion.

I'm not insure I care to see resources sprint on an asset that will barely be used...though some might say that about my Flea, and to you, I say, "shuddap ya wise guy, nyahh!".

Anyway, I'm just saying, convince me with some good examples I'd expect to run into on a frequent basis in the field.

I think a great example is giving it only to the IS as a relatively cheap consumable (maybe 15K). It would give the IS teams a layer of tactics to use against the Clan do help get into engagement range without being destroyed.

9erRed, on 03 August 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

9erRed

I completely agree that the whole game would have more depth if proper role warfare was implemented. They could even give it a BIG push by segregating module types among more role oriented slots (and I've posted specific examples several times).

None of that changes the fact that these types of consumables would add a layer of tactics to the game that we don't currently have, role warfare would just make it even better.