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Five Simple And Easy Things We Can Do To Balance Mwo


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#1 Rebas Kradd

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:48 PM

While I welcome debate, I would appreciate this thread being pinned, linked to frequently, and turned into a campaign so that the community will benefit from better piloting. Personally, I'm putting this in my signature.

Much has been made of the prevalence of one-sided matches ("stomps") and the resulting blame on the ELO matchmaker. But the job of balance never rests solely with the developer. What can they do about (for example) premades of Spiders or DDCs? Slice the queues even further? A developer can only safeguard so many things before the safeguards start getting in the way of each other and cramping the game. Players will always be able to generate some degree of imbalance by exploiting or emphasizing something.

The job of balance lies with the community to a degree as well, with presence of mind and full awareness of all the features in the game. People are swarming the forums to complain about the matchmaker while in the same breath doing very little to actually enable balance themselves or spread word on how to do it. I personally feel that this is an irresponsible approach. There are all kinds of little things you can do to avoid ROFLstomps in a match.

Here are five very simple tactics that require little to no skill, that actually seem to be widely neglected tactics (though they're obvious to others).


1. Pick "Any" for your game mode. By doing this, you are giving the matchmaker a much wider pool of teammates and opponents to choose from. This makes it much easier for the matchmaker to fill a match with skill-matched players. Many players have testified that selecting "Any" for the game mode drastically reduces the number of "stomp" matches they experience.

Regardless of how you feel about tonnage matching, you have to admit that if the matchmaker can pit someone who's brilliant in a Hunchback against someone who's brilliant in a Victor, there's more potential for an even match. It's reasonable to assume that a pilot with a brilliant medium ELO has probably proven themselves in that mech even through tough conditions. (And while I have your attention, let me make a prediction on the side: tonnage matching will involve players being forced to give up their preferred mechs and will only initiate a new wave of complaints.)



2. Target your enemy mechs. I have lost track of how many times I've spotted a lone enemy mech on radar tangled up with a single teammate and rushed to assist, only to find OH **** THERE ARE SEVEN OTHERS I DIDN'T KNOW WERE THERE and die horribly. You ARE aware, aren't you, that if an enemy mech is not actively targeted by anyone on your team, then nobody on your team has any way of knowing they're there???!!!

When I turn a corner and run smack into a cluster of bogies that nobody is aware of, even while I'm turning to run while screaming like a little girl, I tap my target key repeatedly. This cycles through all the targets I've just blundered into and at the very least informs my team "HEY, THERE'S LIKE FIFTY MECHS RIGHT HERE, USING THIS RIDGE FOR COVER, THOUGHT YOU OUGHTA KNOW". Call it a UAV Lite, for free. It won't help much if they have ECM, but typically there will be a chump or two who's outside the bubble and can be targeted. At least then you'll get SOME teammates rushing to help, instead of circling the map like lemmings looking for the enemy.

Also, targeting an enemy is of great value for any friendly LRM boats or snipers. They can actually assist you in a one-on-one if they know your opponent is there. Otherwise, all they can see is your blue arrow on the radar circling and meandering for no apparent reason. For snipers, having that red box around the opponent assists with their manual aiming. Energy/ballistics boats: target your opponent and give your team's boats/snipers something to shoot at!

Finally, there is a very simple, intuitive "focus fire" mechanism built into the game that doesn't require you to type a single word. When an enemy mech is targeted by you or a teammate, the red triangle above them will be solid. By choosing to shoot at a solid red triangle, you are focusing fire. If it's hollow, that means no teammate is paying attention to them. Yes, you could engage a hollow red triangle yourself, but you'd be the only one doing so. That means your team's firepower is spread out. That in turn means that unless the other team is a cluster**** in equal measure, your team is the one about to start losing mechs, and thus both firepower and targets. Remember, the fewer targets on your team, the easier time of it the enemy will have.

By not targeting opponents, you are cutting your team's situational awareness, coordination, collective weapons loadout, and effective range all in half. I cannot believe people forget to do this. Yes, it takes presence of mind, but I think you will pleasantly surprised how much more team combat this generates - again, without a single word typed or needed.



3. Stay with the group. How often have your victories in this game begun with some {Dezgra} Stalker on the opposing side making a Leroy Jenkins suicide run by himself right into the teeth of your team? I'd wager a lot. Unless you're faster than 90 KPH and lighter than 50 tons, you should not be wondering around on your own. Even if you have a brilliant plan for your lance, your plans will end horribly every time if the other team decided to stay together and runs into your lance. Now your team is down four, and honestly, you guys probably had time to take out ONE enemy at most. These diminishing returns, and not tonnage, are why matches snowball.

Fair or not, MWO currently favors blob warfare. It's not even because of ECM; it's just because there are twelve mechs on each team, and with that much firepower focused on fewer targets, solitary mechs will die very quickly while dealing a disproportionate amount of damage to their executors. This is a game of big, slow, lumbering targets that cannot nimbly dart into cover upon making a bad maneuver; one mistake costs you. And once two or three mechs have died in this way, there are fewer targets on that team to pick off, and the enemy can focus more easily. Tonnage isn't the culprit; it's merely the thing that will kill you once you've already made the bad decision. Fight the stomp; stay within firing distance of the group.

That said, there's a difference between staying in a group and staying in a confused knot. Spread out your formations (think a wedge) so that people can target what you're targeting.



4. Don't chase lights. I know they can freak one out, but keep your head when swarmed by these buggers. Remember that 90% of the time, the light will not be what kills you. If it is, they probably just got the final random killing shot, while most of the damage was done by that AC40 Jagermech that snuck up on you while you weren't looking, or by that wave of assaults that you found while chasing the Jenner across half the map.

If you're spinning in circles trying to kill a Spider, you're expending a lot of time and effort on a very small percentage of the enemy's firepower. Obviously, this is bad. It's one thing if you're a dedicated light-killer, brandishing a supple mech equipped with streaks, an LB 10-X AC, or plenty of energy weapons. Otherwise, you're not the best person to hit lights. Besides, if you're following #2 and staying in a group, whatever light harassment you pick up will have to deal with your teammates as well, from multiple angles. Not good for them.

Unless they're capping, leave the lights alone and don't let them lure you away or distract you from hitting their bigger guns.



5. Prioritize targets. So my team is up 5 survivors to 3 on Forest Colony Snow, and I'm spectating a teammate as he heads into open water (first mistake, but I digress). He has two targets to decide. One is an AC40 Jagermech; the other is a Griffin boating SRMs. He knows both are there, but does not bother to analyze either mech and just runs after the Griffin. Sure enough, the much more powerful AC40 Jagermech goes on a killing spree, rips through four of our last five guys, and the last guy happens to be a Streakcat who runs out of ammo and has to hide. We lose on kills.

Why oh why does nobody prioritize targets? Certain mechs deserve a lot more attention than others, because they carry the disproportionate share of the firepower. Jagers, Cataphracts, Victors, and Highlanders should generally be targeted first. In the current meta, they represent the biggest threat to your team. They can also represent, believe it or not, the easiest targets, because many of them have installed XL engines in order to boost your firepower. (Pro tip: Many of the smarter such XL'ers will be hanging around the horizon in order to take shots from under cover.)

On the flipside, look for weak spots in the enemy lineup to prune away; usually, again, this has to be done by targeting. So many players just shoot at whatever's in front of them at the moment, instead of following and concentrating damage on a single target. With 24 players in a match, most surviving mechs are usually one or two shots away from getting cored by the time the match ends. That last laser to the red center torso could swing an entire match. One less target on a battlefield makes a huge difference. Instead, people just...shoot at stuff. Randomly and without any analysis.

Once again, the only way to survive as a team in this game is to reduce your opponent's actual damage output. Only killing mechs does this, so kill mechs quickly. That means DON'T waste your time chewing on that fresh Trebuchet while an almost-cored Cataphract is stumping around unloading triple UAC5's into your team's heavy hitters. Take the time to quickly cycle through your options and find the guy whose armor is gone. Smoke pouring out of a mech is a real strong hint that his internals are ready for cooking. Matches can swing on a hair's trigger; stack your side. One shot could be the difference.



TL;DR in "don't form":

1. DON'T pick a specific game mode. Stick to "Any".
2. DON'T forget to target things. It gives your lancemates enemy locations and strengths, as well as allowing focus fire.
3. DON'T leave your group.
4. DON'T waste effort on lights (#3 will take care of them for you).
5. DON'T just shoot anyone; target meta mechs and wounded opponents (though not zombied ones).



I personally believe that these five simple gameplay habits have the potential to balance matches better than asking for any excessively rigid system or interfering adjustments from PGI. These are five no-brainers that should be shared with every newbie.

Once these are widely observed and the full potential of the game explored, then we are in a better position to approach PGI about potentially game-altering changes. If we ourselves could transition the matchmaking experience from "barely tolerable" to "occasionally irritating", perhaps it doesn't even need to happen.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 28 February 2014 - 02:13 PM.


#2 Noesis

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:14 PM

k, so like I'm aware of these things and exercise them so I will continue to consider balance issues as suggested to ensure the game has numerous viable roles where pilots can explore diverse and varying tactics.

AC/PPC Sniping Meta on heavier Mechs is an issue as the dominant roles in game currently for which tonnage restrictions will hopefully help to reduce overall damage potential making some lighter Mechs like mediums certainly more survivable than having to perform in this current "heavy" environment.

With the idea that overall the game may also achieve a little more mobility also with tonnage restrictions in may open up scope that the fielded arrangements have a little more scope to vary tactics more, so tonnage does in fact matter, though this dominance of the aforementioned tech restricting some tactics since there is less confidence or effectiveness with them as a result. All of which being current valid balance issues that need resolving despite best piloting habits since it is this confidence that is the main reason why people gravitate to the kinds of Mechs and tech they use.

I would just like to see the game a little less predictable with such a strong bias being employed on the field currently with heavy sniping meta with ballistics to make MWO a little more interesting and to provide more opportunities for other roles or in other words give the game more variety and fun with other game play options having similar confidence.

Not that personally I have concerns with how the game matches me with others, I take my knocks and I have my fun still in varying roles and platforms.

#3 Darth Futuza

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 02:53 PM

Excellent post OP.

View PostRebas Kradd, on 31 January 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

4. Don't chase lights. I know they can freak one out, but keep your head when swarmed by these buggers. Remember that 90% of the time, the light will not be what kills you. If it is, they probably just got the final random killing shot, while most of the damage was done by that AC40 Jagermech that snuck up on you while you weren't looking, or by that wave of assaults that you found while chasing the Jenner across half the map.

If you're spinning in circles trying to kill a Spider, you're expending a lot of time and effort on a very small percentage of the enemy's firepower. Obviously, this is bad. It's one thing if you're a dedicated light-killer, brandishing a supple mech equipped with streaks, an LB 10-X AC, or plenty of energy weapons. Otherwise, you're not the best person to hit lights. Besides, if you're following #2 and staying in a group, whatever light harassment you pick up will have to deal with your teammates as well, from multiple angles. Not good for them.

Unless they're capping, leave the lights alone and don't let them lure you away or distract you from hitting their bigger guns.


SHUTUP! You're giving all my light secrets away, I don't want PUGS to get any better then they already are - if they stop chasing us I'll stop winning, I command you to be silent fiend! Are you trying to upset the balance of this world?!?!

#4 Tesunie

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 08:22 PM

Agreed.

Only thing I'd mention is with the "rapidly pressing R to show that a team of enemies is over that ridge" concept. I agree with this, but if I already am aware of that team (AKA: Someone else already did that), my LRMs would be much more thankful if you could keep that lock on one mech, if possible. Please?

Don't know how many LRMs I've wasted (and I do try to get my own locks too) trying to help someone, just for them to "switch targets" as soon as I press the trigger. Then, I move on to their next target, only for the same thing to happen again, and again. It wastes my LRMs (till I give up on the unstable locks) and makes it so I have a harder time finding the person who could really use my help who has a stable lock...

However, at the same given time/breath, yes. I want to know that there is a group of enemies slightly behind and to the left/right of me, so I can either greet them with open guns, or move to help support from that direction/hide from the coming doom.

#5 Tesunie

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 08:26 PM

View PostDarth Futuza, on 01 February 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

SHUTUP! You're giving all my light secrets away, I don't want PUGS to get any better then they already are - if they stop chasing us I'll stop winning, I command you to be silent fiend! Are you trying to upset the balance of this world?!?!


My Dragon would love to greet you, and chase you, with it's light hunting armaments... I'm the exception to your rule. I'll chase you, try to kill you and "Oh, some of his team is over there" run away almost as fast as you do (104 KPH helps).

Want to give my Dragon a hug? Hehehehe. :angry:

#6 Awesome Master

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 02:36 AM

Well the thing with lights are, if you start focusing on an assault / other enemy mechs the light will just stand behind you and kill you in a matter of seconds (stalker speaking)... Annoying when your team mates just watch you die.

#7 Daggett

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 03:42 AM

View PostRebas Kradd, on 31 January 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

Finally, there is a very simple, intuitive "focus fire" mechanism built into the game that doesn't require you to type a single word. When an enemy mech is targeted by you or a teammate, the red triangle above them will be solid. By choosing to shoot at a solid red triangle, you are focusing fire. If it's hollow, that means no teammate is paying attention to them.

While i agree with most of your post, this one is a bit contrary to what you wrote before. The hollow triangles does not only mean that no one is paying attention. It also means that probably no one other than you even know about that target, because no one has targeted it yet and therefore it does not appear on any map. So what i would do is to target this this mech just to let my team know it's there instead of just moving on to a non-hollow target what you seem to suggest.

Granted, this does not mean that i will engage him alone. But i think it should be mentioned that even if you should not engage a hollow target alone, you should at least target it as long as you can afford.

Also it's no guarantee that a solid triangle means that the mech is actually shot at. It could just be targeted by someone like me who just wanted to make that enemy visible. A better indicator is if his damage-puppet is flashing regularly. Those are the mechs you want to focus fire on :angry:

View PostRebas Kradd, on 31 January 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

3. Stay with the group. How often have your victories in this game begun with some {Dezgra} Stalker on the opposing side making a Leroy Jenkins suicide run by himself right into the teeth of your team? I'd wager a lot. Unless you're faster than 90 KPH and lighter than 50 tons, you should not be wondering around on your own. Even if you have a brilliant plan for your lance, your plans will end horribly every time if the other team decided to stay together and runs into your lance. Now your team is down four, and honestly, you guys probably had time to take out ONE enemy at most. These diminishing returns, and not tonnage, are why matches snowball.

Fair or not, MWO currently favors blob warfare.

While this is generally true (especially the part about why matches snowball) this is also the most dangerous trap i see way too often.
In fact MWO punishes blob warfare as much as it rewards it. The difference is in how tight the blob is.

The tighter your blob, the more often it happens that friendlies are blocking their line of fire or movement, especially in choke points like the volcano entrances in Terra Therma. Blobs lose here because 2 mechs are often blocking the path for their entire team and nullifying their firepower.

In my experience a good blob is more loose and tries to cover multiple paths but will also always try to stay near enough to support where it's needed.

A much bigger factor than blobbing is initiative. The team that blobs together passively and 'defends' a position is about to loose more likely than the team that takes the initiative and pushes from multiple angles and tries to surround the passive blob. Whoever manages to surround the other team has a higher chance of winning if both teams are equally skilled.

Two 6-mech blobs attacking from different angles can be way more devastating than that 12-mech blob where only half the mechs have a clear line of fire...

View PostTesunie, on 01 February 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

Don't know how many LRMs I've wasted (and I do try to get my own locks too) trying to help someone, just for them to "switch targets" as soon as I press the trigger. Then, I move on to their next target, only for the same thing to happen again, and again. It wastes my LRMs (till I give up on the unstable locks) and makes it so I have a harder time finding the person who could really use my help who has a stable lock...

What you experienced is not what the OP suggest. What he does is to really rapidly switch targets so on your screen it makes 'ping-ping-ping-ping'. You will recognize this easily and won't even have time to get a lock on one of those mechs. :angry:

#8 Davinelulinvega

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 04:03 AM

View PostAwesome Master, on 02 February 2014 - 02:36 AM, said:

Well the thing with lights are, if you start focusing on an assault / other enemy mechs the light will just stand behind you and kill you in a matter of seconds (stalker speaking)... Annoying when your team mates just watch you die.


Well, I think the OP means you should not chase those lights, but of course you have to scare them away.
A good placed alpha makes most lights running, and I for myself will always switch my fire shortly to get a good shot at those lights that feel safe enough to stand still anywhere behind a friendly mech.

#9 990Dreams

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 08:47 AM

I agree with you 100%.

Buutt if the enemy Mech is wounded to the point of no weapons then it is best to just deal with the bigger threats.

At first I thought this was another rant I'd have to rectify. You've proved me wrong sir, and I am linking this!

Edited by DavidHurricane, 02 February 2014 - 08:48 AM.


#10 Rebas Kradd

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 12:57 PM

As far as targeting goes, you want to rapidly cycle through a series of targets upon first meeting them in order to alert your team. But once the team shows up, it makes a lot more sense to keep one target.

And as far as lights, it's a lot easier to ignore them if you're part of a group. It's guaranteed that any light that just tries to stand there will eventually get spotted and pasted.

I guess my list should be a series of don'ts: DON'T run away from your group to chase lights. DON'T just shoot at stuff without targeting anything. In fact, I'll add a TL;DR in "don't" fashion to the end of my post for clarity.

#11 Tesunie

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 05:15 PM

View PostDaggett, on 02 February 2014 - 03:42 AM, said:

What you experienced is not what the OP suggest. What he does is to really rapidly switch targets so on your screen it makes 'ping-ping-ping-ping'. You will recognize this easily and won't even have time to get a lock on one of those mechs. :)


I know it isn't completely the same thing, but I've seen people do it, while having line of sight on the other targets the whole time...

I too have done the "R-R-R-R" trick when I'm the first to see "Big blob of enemies over here". Either that or I just die... Either way is good to inform that there is an enemy presence over there... :rolleyes: (Some sarcasm included.)

#12 Darth Futuza

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 11:12 AM

View PostTesunie, on 01 February 2014 - 08:26 PM, said:


My Dragon would love to greet you, and chase you, with it's light hunting armaments... I'm the exception to your rule. I'll chase you, try to kill you and "Oh, some of his team is over there" run away almost as fast as you do (104 KPH helps).

Want to give my Dragon a hug? Hehehehe. ;)

Run run as fast as you can, you can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man. Too bad there's not a 1v1 queue. :unsure:

#13 Tesunie

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 11:33 AM

View PostDarth Futuza, on 03 February 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

Run run as fast as you can, you can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man. Too bad there's not a 1v1 queue. :unsure:


True, you are faster. But I've been known to chase a light up and down my teams line to "keep them moving" and to protect my team. (I'd call them friends, but I don't know many of my "friendly" teammates in a PUG match...)

Don't know how well my Dragon would stand in a 1v1 match up, but it works good in a team as a light hunter. Works really well when that light isn't aware of me... ;)

#14 Devlin Stone

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 11:42 AM

R - R - R - R is a fine cludge replacement for voice chat, but give me MW3 style F1 - F12 lance commands or make it so command consoles store and distribute current and last known enemy information (position, heading, speed, and perhaps damage on map mouse-over) to team mates within line of sight so that it starts being a useful piece of equipment. Sure there are things that the players can do to make the game a better experience for themselves and others, but that responsibility shouldn't rest entirely on the player base.

Edited by Devlin Stone, 03 February 2014 - 11:43 AM.


#15 Phobic Wraith

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 11:56 AM

Just wanted to hop on and say I love your post! We really do need more people committed to making MW:O a better game. I do however disagree with one point, we shouldn't tip-toe around the balance band-****. If there's a problem, it needs to be exploited until it's fixed correctly. We shouldn't ever forget, we pay them for this game. We certainly should be pushing for things to be done correctly in a civilized, adult manner. The devs are creating a product and if they want to sell it and succeed, the best thing we can do is push. Stress test away.

#16 Tesunie

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 12:03 PM

View PostDevlin Stone, on 03 February 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

Sure there are things that the players can do to make the game a better experience for themselves and others, but that responsibility shouldn't rest entirely on the player base.


The concept here is, the devs are trying to balance the game, there are things we can do to help.

It's like, knowing a legal cheat in a game (Mario cart had one on Rainbow Road, were you could jump off a rail at the right time and speed, and land on a section over half way through the track), and deciding not to use it. If you know something isn't working right, instead of "always exploiting it till PGI fixes it, so they know it's a problem", you could instead not do that behavior, report the problem to support, and wait for it to get fixed. Instead, most people jump onto the bandwagon and "make a problem worse" most times, hence the "meta". (Of course, within some reason here.)

Basically, it isn't just PGI's job to help balance the game, there are simple things we players can do to make out own playing experience better. Yes, PGI still needs to bug fix and balance, but we can help make it a nicer experience till it is corrected.

(Take with a grain of salt, some examples are mentioned to exaggerated what we can do, not to be what we should do. I hope people understand, as I think I worded this poorly. :unsure: )

#17 Tesunie

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 12:10 PM

View PostPhobic Wraith, on 03 February 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

Just wanted to hop on and say I love your post! We really do need more people committed to making MW:O a better game. I do however disagree with one point, we shouldn't tip-toe around the balance band-****. If there's a problem, it needs to be exploited until it's fixed correctly. We shouldn't ever forget, we pay them for this game. We certainly should be pushing for things to be done correctly in a civilized, adult manner. The devs are creating a product and if they want to sell it and succeed, the best thing we can do is push. Stress test away.


Yes... and no? Report it as a problem to support, but don't abuse and "break" a known problem.

Example: When 3pv was first implemented, it had a problem where the camera wasn't "tucking in close" at spots. People could then see over buildings and such. Instead of "using and abusing" it, someone created a video to show the problems and submitted it to Support (and the forums). two patches later, it was corrected, and that person did not continue to abuse the problem. He only showed what the problem was.

We can find problems, without needing to "push it till they fix it". Test it out a few matches every so often to see if it's fixed, fine. But to spam it because "it needs to be fixed" is the opposite of "civilized and adult manner" and is rather childish, in my opinion. There is a more civilized manner to go about the issue, at least at first before it becomes a "meta"... maybe... :unsure:

#18 Vanguard319

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 12:30 PM

I would add a sixth point:

6. Watch your heat level:

You aren't doing any damage, and are giving your opponents free shots if you shut down. Granted, overheating is inevitable, and even the best players will do so sometimes. However, you should be watching your heat scale, especially if you are on a hot map with a high heat build, you don't want to shut down with six enemies bearing down on you. if you are close to shut down, stop firing, move to cover, and let your mech cool down. If you are using a high heat build, you can switch to single fire while you are cooling down so you can still shoot some of your weapons while your mech cools down.

#19 Devlin Stone

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 12:44 PM

View PostTesunie, on 03 February 2014 - 12:03 PM, said:

*snip*
*snip*


I think you meant to quote Phobic? And yeah, it's not even like all game or balance issues are something you can exploit, or reasonably expect people to avoid exploiting. Ghost heat is a broken system but you can't exploit it. Convergence is a broken system, but you can't reasonably expect people not to exploit it.

#20 z00med

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 12:50 PM

I would like to add a seventh point:

7.Follow the frackin Atlas (=if you see an Atlas push, push too!)

:unsure:Seriously, these points should appear in the tutorial somewhere. Sticking to them makes you a better (team)player very fast. Although I admit that I still have problems sometimes to listen to that calming womens voice "Heat level critical"... :o would prefer it if bitchin betty starts to sound hysteric a bit ;).
P.S: I am grateful that this turned out to be a crisp guide, and not the next thread of somebody claiming his ideas about metachanges would make the world a better place etc...^^

P.P.S: Convergence... Could someone spare half a minute and explain to me what it is supposed to do? I know what the word means (synonym for changeover or transition) (and that it does nothing in MWO^^), but it doesnt make sense to me...

Edited by z00med, 03 February 2014 - 12:55 PM.






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