218 replies to this topic

[Shiro Matsumoto]

Soo.. the engine rating in Omnis cannot be changed...

Kit Fox - 97,2kph
Adder - 97,2kph

...that makes the Clan lights very very slow compared to contemporary IS builds, where life & survivability begins somewhere at 120 kph+...

Thoughts on that?

[CyclonerM]

Before someone starts speaking sense, i will introduce the unconfortable truth: not ALL the light 'Mechs are meant for harassing/fast strikes. Packing as many weapons as a medium, these lights will unlock new roles. I cannot wait to see how will be the new light meta, but i would bet on something involving ERPPCs and UACs.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

IMO, speed won't be as important as firepower when tonnage limits are in.

My RVN-3L nods in agreement. 46 or so alpha strike at the same speed you listed after speed tweak is 104 I believe, if a speedy jenner comes up to me and I manage to hit, it'd be toast and I have long range capability as well coupled w/ the ECM is powerful.

Can't wait for them to re-do the graphics for weapons and missile tubes, will look something like this:

Edited by M4NTiC0R3X, 13 February 2014 - 08:40 AM.

[SniperCon]

There's still hope for Clan scouts. The Fire Moth, Arctic Cheetah, Viper, and Ice Ferret are possibilities. In 3052, the Fire Falcon, Phantom, and granddaddy Black Lanner may be joining the party.

[LiGhtningFF13]

CyclonerM, on 13 February 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Before someone starts speaking sense, i will introduce the unconfortable truth: not ALL the light 'Mechs are meant for harassing/fast strikes. Packing as many weapons as a medium, these lights will unlock new roles. I cannot wait to see how will be the new light meta, but i would bet on something involving ERPPCs and UACs.

Completely right! And for me it's too early to comment about the clan topic. We will all see what happens.

[Tannhauser Gate]

Too early to start rage rumors on this.

[Damocles]

I know one off examples are w/e but; my 97 kph Ember racked up 7 kills in a match, so the idea of 'slow' lights doesn't really bother me (PUGGING).

[Valdemaar]

I was worried at first until I saw the stock weapon loadouts. The Kit Fox has an ER Large Laser, Small Pulse Laser, SSRM4, and LB 5-X AC. That's impressive for 30 tons. What does concern me though is the armor. My Commando has more armor than that.

[MasterC]

I share the OP's concern. Speed is life in this game--particularly for lights but even for assaults.

Atlas's, for example, are hard mechs to pilot because of their lack of speed. They are too slow to run away from trouble or to take advantage of opportunities,

To be successful in an Atlas, you have to be either:

a ) Lucky by being at the right place at the right time (or not in the wrong place at the wrong time)
b ) Fortunate enough to be working with a highly coordinated lance or company. (Solo pugging with an Atlas is a very painful experience.)

Again, speed allows you to escape trouble or take advantage of opportunities.

Now as slow and painful as piloting an Atlas can be, with maximum speeds up to 64 kph, imagine how painful piloting a Dire Wolf restricted to an XL 300 will be with a max speed of 48 kph!

Will the bigger punch of clan mechs make up for their slower speed?

Edited by MasterC, 13 February 2014 - 08:53 AM.

[MayGay]

pull the small pulse and add a ton, then remove the SSRM and up the ERlarge to an ERPPC and bam, instant sniper god 'mech, may even have room fo an LRM 5 too

[Gremlich Johns]

More often than not, it is ALWAYS more about the pilot than the mech.

[Pariah Devalis]

I feel the current batch of Clan lights will surprise you. Or infuriate you if you try to force them to fit into another mech's role.

The Adder comes with 2 15-point damage ERPPC or a pair of Clan LRM20 on two of the more common configurations. Neither require much speed to utilize, one can stay hidden while unloading, and one only needs to peek out momentarily. In the case of the LRM one, if something does close with it the LRMs have a much closer effective range than IS LRMs, and both are well armored stock. The KitFox is slow for a light but armed like a medium, so would be best suited supporting the Adder by keeping other mechs off of it, or by providing anti-light services while inside the Clan formation and poking outside of the formation with its longer ranged firepower, though in stock form the armor coverage on it is bad. Fortunately we can easily adjust the armor value by shaving a ton or two of weapons off, so there is that.

Both of these mechs are designed to punch way above their weight bracket and can be seen as destroyers, escorting the formation and putting out disproportionate firepower for their displacement. The type of light the current mindset people are used to are better suited for the Arctic Cheetah, Fire Moth, Mist Lynx and (as an equivalent to the Cicada which fills the same roll) Ice Ferret. These are lights (and a medium) designed to go out, scout, and fight off other lights unsupported if so required.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 13 February 2014 - 09:52 AM.

[Kael Posavatz]

Part of the problem is that everyone is playing all of the current light mechs the same way, even if the way they are being played is counter to the role for which they were designed.

Some of this is completely understandable--the Locust, for example, is nearly useless in its intended role of a reconnaissance platform. The Firestarter too is unable to function as the specialized combat engineer it really is supposed to be, but it has sufficient hardpoints (and enough mass to make those hardpoints useful) to overcome this. The Raven also is supposed to be an electronic warfare escort and spotter mech, but we see little of this in game.

Restricted engine sizes merely mean that pilots of Clan light OmniMechs will be required to exercise some intelligence rather than going 'oh, a light, it's another harasser'.

The Adder has a plethora of long-range builds, both direct and in-direct fire, and it possesses sufficient speed to quickly relocate between shots, move to add weight to a push, or throw weapon fire into a sudden hole. Against many hot-running energy-dependent IS lights its flamer actually becomes a useful weapon, and given some of the hardpoint layouts (depending on which exact variants PGI releases) and its ability to quickly move around the edges of maneuvering heavies and assaults I can easily see it becoming a decent anti-harasser platform.

The Kit Fox is another long-range mech that carries maximum armor and a weapon suite that many medium mechs would envy. the Kit Fox-A carries around a gauss rifle of all things, which is sure to give larger IS mechs a bad day. Even more useful in my opinion is the Kit Fox-C, its ECM and three AMS are purpose-built for an escort, and its hardpoints (with the right weapons and if the a-pods are replaced with something useful in-game) would make it a terror for raiding lights.

Will we see some of the Clan reconnaissance/raider-style mechs in the future? Almost certainly. The Fire Moth in particular was designed as a compliment to the Kit Fox, and would certainly give the Clans a fast light mech for the IS to complain about. But don't make the mistake of thinking the Clan lights are going to be useless just because you can't do the same thing to them that everyone has been doing to the IS lights.

[CoffiNail]

I do pretty damn well in a 97 kph Jenner with 2 LPL and a flamer... so, no. light mechs are not DOA.

[Pariah Devalis]

CoffiNail, on 13 February 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

I do pretty damn well in a 97 kph Jenner with 2 LPL and a flamer... so, no. light mechs are not DOA.

Hah, I was considering that modification to the Adder, myself. Dericious 800m LPLas....

[Metalcell]

Clans might have all this weapon hardpoints but are they heat efficient?

[Pariah Devalis]

Not any more than IS tech. Clan ERLLas and ERPPC generate the same heat as IS ERLLas and ERPPC, for example. The theoretical tradeoff is that you get the extra tonnage and physical space to install more double heat sinks and/or simply run less weapons that hit harder.

So, you can cram the same firepower with fewer weapons, trade that free tonnage to heat sinks, and break even, or, if you want, forgo equivalent heat efficiency to maximize firepower, but do not expect any special heat advantage if you do so. Granted, pushing out 60 point alphas on heavy mechs is its own reward...

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 13 February 2014 - 11:17 AM.

[wanderer]

Valdemaar, on 13 February 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

I was worried at first until I saw the stock weapon loadouts. The Kit Fox has an ER Large Laser, Small Pulse Laser, SSRM4, and LB 5-X AC. That's impressive for 30 tons. What does concern me though is the armor. My Commando has more armor than that.

Armor will be able to be changed, though not it's type. So you'll be able to max-armor it for a 30-tonner.

Clan forces are overall going to be slower and less agile, but Clantech (if it was implemented properly) WOULD give them greater firepower to compensate.

PGI's half-baked "balance" ideas are what you really want to worry about.

Pariah Devalis, on 13 February 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

Hah, I was considering that modification to the Adder, myself. Dericious 800m LPLas....

Basically, the better burn time/punch of a pulse wedded to the range of an ERLL. For one more ton than a IS ERLL. Folks mounting ERPPC's on Spiders will love em on their Clanner lights.

Metalcell, on 13 February 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

Clans might have all this weapon hardpoints but are they heat efficient?

They can be, if they invest in the sinkage. People forget the Clan ERML has IS LL range, and similar damage. Pair it up with, say an Ultra AC/2 and you've got a pretty cool runner with excellent reach and a decent punch on a Kit Fox. Adders doing the classic ERLL Raven sniper config can plug in 15 DHS- more if they let us strip out the targeting computer. Situational. Might end up going the LPL route instead.

Also, remember that the Prime confiiguration is -not- the only hardpoint loadout for lights. There's missile and a LA Ballistic hardpoint option for the Adder,for example- and a Clan Gauss weighs in at 12 tons, not 15. We'll likely see Prime-A-B configurations and pods available.

[Pariah Devalis]

wanderer, on 13 February 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

Clan forces are overall going to be slower and less agile, but Clantech (if it was implemented properly) WOULD give them greater firepower to compensate.

I suspect this might be in error. Sure, the current light mech line up is slow, but overall every other mech they have is exceptionally fast for their tonnage. Timberwolf with speed tweak is booking 89, for example. A 75 ton mech moving 90? How about the Warhawk at 65 KPH stock, 71 with speed tweak? Most clan mechs tend to run between 80 and 100 KPH, overall, whereas there is a lot more overall stratification amongst IS mechs. Once we eventually get the faster lights, like Firemoth and Arctic Cheetah, the light mech speediness we expect will be matched, so even that currently slow bit will be covered.

[SniperCon]

Kael 17, on 13 February 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

Restricted engine sizes merely mean that pilots of Clan light OmniMechs will be required to exercise some intelligence...

... and upgrade to a Timberwolf.