11 replies to this topic

[ImperialKnight]

Right now, the company commander is a little more than a joke. Even with a competent commander, people seldom if ever follow instructions give.

There should be incentives given for people to follow instructions given by the commander.

For example

1) Actually moving into the grid a move order is issued to

2) Bonus credit for everything done in the grid an attack or defend order is issued. i.e. kills, kill assists, ECM, spotting etc.....

The rewards should be small little like maybe 200 cbills/ 10XP. This gives people some motivation to actually do stuff but not enough to jeopardise the team when troll orders are issued

Edited by knightsljx, 20 February 2014 - 03:20 PM.

[Wintersdark]

There are rewards for this... Or, at least, there were. They where put in when the command system was put in.

[Joseph Mallan]

Depending on the commander the reward for following orders could be victory or defeat... I would think that would be enough.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

There should also be rewards for the commanders when people follow their orders successfully.

I suspect we won't see any movement on this until the command wheel or whatever they're calling it goes live, whenever that may be.

[Joseph Mallan]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 21 February 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

There should also be rewards for the commanders when people follow their orders successfully.

I suspect we won't see any movement on this until the command wheel or whatever they're calling it goes live, whenever that may be.

This sounds more reasonable!

[MoonUnitBeta]

There's three reasons why people don't follow the commander, 1) there's no downside if you don't follow orders and 2) they don't follow because they wanna play their own way. The third problem requires a story first:

The Story:
I was in a Crimson Straight Conquest game where one person who talked loudly demanded that everyone blob up and go around in a circle and cap each point as they go. So from Sigma to Kappa. get Gamma, wrap around to epsilon.
While they totally abandoned kappa after capping and moved at molassas pace, I stayed behind and actually watched what was happening with the other team. I said INC Kappa, need help.
He said "dude stay with the group!"
I said "we need to defend.."
colourful language ensued by him, calling me names, swearing, etc,
So after ev being cast out as an incompetent fool who knows nothing, I abandoned kappa and decided to follow the blob (in an Atlas by the way, so I’m real slow and lagging behind). Watching the coast line I see a bunch of mechs headed towards kappa from epsilon and theta. I hoof it to try and catch up to the tail of the blob. I gave countless warnings about the mechs creeping up behind us, their location, qty, and even notified them of a possible flank if they don’t turn around and cover their butts. Mr Leader demands that they then go for Kappa after taking Epsilon. By this time they encounter resistance instead and blob up with tunnel vision towards kappa. I die inevitably in the tunnel after holding my ground and legging two mechs to slow them down, and a wave of mechs pour over my corpse and get behind our team and wipe us out due to a chaotic unorganized mess on our side. 12-3 loss for us. The leader even disconnected before his mech died. There was just no way to save the team.

The Point:
The point I’m getting at is that you don’t know who to trust, or who actually knows what they’re talking about. It’s very much based off who sounds most convincing or majority rules (blob). You can’t be sure who is a good commander or a bad one. Everyone is currently ranked the same as a commander.

The Solution:
So while XP helps motivate players follow orders, a public commander rating would help team mates feel comfortable with following certain players who take command. Whether it’s based on win rate when command is used, the amount of orders followed, successful something or another. I’m not sure how it can be rated, but if there was a system in place that could be used to gauge the effectiveness as a commander it would help greatly. Even if it’s clicking a simple “Did you like this person as a commander?”. I’m not sure… but it would be nice to know who to trust as a commander.

Edit: got rid of the quote, sry mis understood what you were saying, Joseph.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 21 February 2014 - 05:21 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

MoonUnitBeta, on 21 February 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

Currently that's not the case though...

There's three reasons why people don't follow the commander, 1) there's no downside if you don't follow orders and 2) they don't follow because they wanna play their own way. The third problem requires a story first:

1) Thats cause you are not in a team u are in a random group. If I don't listen to DocBach or the other founding Lawmen, and Officers I CAN be kicked out of the Law. A punishment worth toeing the line for. Also if the PUG commander has good skills the reason to listen is to increase chances of winning.

2) Not following good orders can get you a loss real quick. That IS a consequence.

3) Your story, perfectly illustrates why I am a member of a Pre made. The fact hey are a cohesive unit makes them better to pal around with. Even when You say Help, and hear, Sorry we are in the mix right now. At least you know you could have had help.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 21 February 2014 - 11:20 AM.

[Supersmacky]

How about commander(s) get a bonus based on 1) winning, 2) number of company/lance that survive and 3) Objectives achieved (per game mode). Downside? Commander(s) get a penalty if they 1) lose, 2) for each mech lost under their command and 3) Not obtaining objectives.

No rewards for specific orders (defend, attack, whatever), just overall performance of the team at the end of the match.

But, all that said, I don't see rewarding players for following orders would be something to easily implement. Why? Try this one on for size.

Command gives orders to defend position x. Player A is in an LRM boat 600m away (behind the line). The enemy attacks and Player A pours LRMs all over them helping to break their assault. Player B, on the other hand, is 600m away in a 1 v 1 fight on the other side of a hill that has nothing to do with defending the position, but he wins his fight. Then we have player C that is on the objective, but hides behind a building and never fires a shot. Who gets points? How would you even code something lightweight enough to track all of this and the possible iterations. I only listed three, but there are many more. What counts as following orders? Commander says move to position X and right before I get there he changes it to position y, so did I follow orders or not?

I agree there needs to be some mechanic that rewards/penalizes someone that takes a command role. I don't think lance members themselves should be because they aren't doing anything but following or ignoring orders. However, an MVP reward for the best performance on a team would be nice.

[Joseph Mallan]

Good ideas here Super! They sound like a good place to begin and build from.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 21 February 2014 - 11:21 AM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Supersmacky, on 21 February 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

How about commander(s) get a bonus based on 1) winning, 2) number of company/lance that survive and 3) Objectives achieved (per game mode). Downside? Commander(s) get a penalty if they 1) lose, 2) for each mech lost under their command and 3) Not obtaining objectives.

No rewards for specific orders (defend, attack, whatever), just overall performance of the team at the end of the match.

I like this. Company commanders should get more emphasis on win/loss and overall objectives, while lance commanders should get more emphasis on if their lance had more or fewer casualties and if they participated in accomplishing objectives.

Supersmacky, on 21 February 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

But, all that said, I don't see rewarding players for following orders would be something to easily implement. Why? Try this one on for size.

Command gives orders to defend position x. Player A is in an LRM boat 600m away (behind the line). The enemy attacks and Player A pours LRMs all over them helping to break their assault. Player B, on the other hand, is 600m away in a 1 v 1 fight on the other side of a hill that has nothing to do with defending the position, but he wins his fight. Then we have player C that is on the objective, but hides behind a building and never fires a shot. Who gets points? How would you even code something lightweight enough to track all of this and the possible iterations. I only listed three, but there are many more. What counts as following orders? Commander says move to position X and right before I get there he changes it to position y, so did I follow orders or not?

I think it could work similarly to the current "defensive kill" bonus. If the target is in the indicated grid, then the LRM boat gets credit for following the order. If the mech is hiding in the indicated grid but doesn't do anything, then he gets no reward (rewards trigger on kill/assist). If a mech is off on his own, then he's already getting his reward for any kills or damage done.

Supersmacky, on 21 February 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

I agree there needs to be some mechanic that rewards/penalizes someone that takes a command role. I don't think lance members themselves should be because they aren't doing anything but following or ignoring orders. However, an MVP reward for the best performance on a team would be nice.

I'd love to see MVP voting for a c-bill bonus. Sure it might be abusable by premades (especially once 2-12 PUG-queue premades are allowed), but it'd still offer that extra bit of incentive to do amazing things with your mech (and anyone who discos early forfeits his vote and is not available as a candidate).

[Mechteric]

I thought the reward was (potentially) winning the match, which pays out better than losing.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

i would have to see how CW shakes out.as it is now i dont want to be rewarded for following the guy that took command, shuffled our 2 4man lances because he thought 3ddcs in 1 lance would be cool.i would rather take the -10k cbill hit for shooting him.