50 replies to this topic

[meteorol]

First of all, this is strictly and only about AMS.
Please don't flood it with a huge lrm flame war. Thanks.

So what do you guys think. When the patchnotes were released, i saw alot of guys posting stuff like "yeah, i'll dust of my AMS now".

But is AMS really worth the cost right now?

1.5 tons with one ton of ammo, which will probably run dry within the first two minutes of a match, so you could discuss using a 2nd ton of ammo, making it 2.5 tons. Depending on your mech and build, this can be quite a lot of tons.

What do you acutally get from it?
With the current lrm flood due to everyone dusting of the lrm boats again, most lrm mechs carry 30+ lrm. Dedicated boats even use alot more.

If you are caught in the open, a single AMS is like a drop of water falling on a hot stone. If you have like 60(or 120 if you have bad luck and 2 boats notice you)lrm incoming, the AMS won't help too much. If you have 4 AMS shooting the lrm of a single boat they help alot, but the thing is, with the number of lrms being used currently, the AMS of other mechs are busy shooting lrms of the other 3 boats.

Worst thing about the AMS is, it shoots lrm that will hit noone all the time. Heck, it shoots lrm flying above the tunnel on Crimson while you are in the tunnel. It shoots lrm which will hit nothing but your cover. I feel like atleast 50%, if not even more, of the AMS ammo is used on lrm which wouldn't deal damage anyway.

So basically i feel like: If i'm cought in the open by a lrm boat using high number of lrm, my AMS won't change the fact that i'm toast. If i'm not in the open, i won't take damage from lrms anyway, and the AMS is dead weight aswell.

Naturally i don't have numbers on this, but when reconsidering my matches after playing them, i don't feel like the AMS prevented any worthwile damage on me OR my teammates. Like 3/4 of the time it shoots lrms that will hit cover anyway, and with the current number of lrms, even 4 AMS won't save a mech from being obliterated if he is caught in the open and focused by lrm boats. I can imagine they would be effective if like half or more of the team would be using them, but even with the lrm buff i hardly see more than 3 or 4 AMS mechs per game, often even less.

So, do feel like AMS is worth the cost it right now?
I still have it on most of my mechs, but with each game i'm getting closer to swapping it for something else because i don't feel like it prevented much worthwile damage at the end of a match.

[BourbonFaucet]

It depends entirely on what you want to accomplish.

Yes, it's true, while playing on Crimson I see AMS systems pointlessly trying to shoot through the tunnel's roof to shoot down missiles that are "within the radius of effect" outside the tunnel. Yes, it's true that the AMS will shoot at anything that's a missile even if there's a snowball's chance on the sun it will actually hit anything. The little machine seems to have OCD from time to time and waste bullets endlessly.

However, there are times when having an AMS is a decent benefit for the team. With the recent range buff, a group of AMS systems can more easily chew through large clouds of LRM fire, and sometimes SSRM's seem to be shot down right out of the tube at close range.

Main point:

My opinion is, the faster your 'Mech is, the less you need an AMS, as you can get to cover faster. The slower your 'Mech, the more you need it, especially if you're going to hang around others with AMS. The exceptions to these rules are ECM carriers, and light 'Mechs that want a bit of protection against streaks.

[Escef]

AMS is great if there are 3 or more of them working together. Other than that, it's rather questionable.

If you have 2+ guys working together, coordinate, have 2 or 3 guys carry it. Otherwise? Roll the dice, run it and hope your PUG group has enough to make yours not a waste, or don't and hope others pick up the slack. Either way, we're going to see heavier LRM presence for at least another few days as people sort out if the recent changes make running LRMs worthwhile.

[Roachbugg]

Ams doesnt help much when you are getting blasted by like 200 plus missile volleys unless you have a lance with multiple double ams or something ecm is still the only real lerm counter

[MonkeyDCecil]

I have always thought AMS was worth it. And now I know it is. And I am starting to think that I need to carry two tons on AMS ammo. Anyway if every mech on your team has AMS your sitten pretty.

[DONTOR]

I personally never equip AMS unless I can have 2 otherwise its pointless. OK you will stop a single LRM 5 from hitting you, but if you get hit by NARC, and LRM 50s start raining on you your done unless you get to good cover. Spend the 1.5-2.5 tons on a bigger engine and utilize terrain better. It will pay off more in the end.

[FireSlade]

The way I look at it is that AMS acts like armor for missiles. For every missile that it shoots down that is less damage that you or your team takes. My dual AMS Jester takes less damage and last longer than my similarly built K2 that does not have AMS, so there is a difference. Up to the pilot though if the weight and slots is worth it; but now with the buff to LRMs and AMS, I feel that a double heat sink and 0.5 ton of armor < 1 AMS (could go with 2 less DHS and add 0.5 tons of armor).

[Marmon Rzohr]

The thing to keep in mind is, AMS doesn't only affect your own mech. Even if you are quite good at dodging LRMs are ducking into cover, AMS can still help some of your team who get LRMed.

Since someone almost certainly will get LRMed, I think AMS is worth it on any mech in which you expect to stick to your team.

Techorse, on 24 March 2014 - 06:24 AM, said:

Yes, it's true, while playing on Crimson I see AMS systems pointlessly trying to shoot through the tunnel's roof to shoot down missiles that are "within the radius of effect" outside the tunnel.

You can turn AMS off with the press of a button if you don't want to waste ammo in such a situation

[Spheroid]

@marmon: AMS toggle? Evidence please

[Sean von Steinike]

I usually carry AMS on most of my mechs and most of the people I play with carry it. By itself it is not worth much but when you have a group of AMS equipped mechs working together, it can shoot down a lot of missiles. Plus, it's being a good teammate to carry it as you are protecting not just yourself, but everyone in your vicinity.

[Gevurah]

I got caught in the open yesterday w/ a highlander on top of crimson city's parking garage. Took me a good 15-20 seconds to get back to cover. During that time as missiles rained in, I blew through all 1000 rounds of AMS onboard. At least two of the enemy mechs were using LRM5's as launchers, judging by the streams of missiles incoming. Now granted, I twisted/ ran to cover (whopping 64kph), during that process but at no point got cored by the volleys. I have absolutely ZERO doubt I'd have been cored in the first few volleys without it. So yes, I'd say unquestionably useful at this point.

[Bishop Steiner]

depends on playstyle. If you have the tonnage to spare, and can't use it terribly effectively elsewhere, it never hurts. On big fat slow mechs, it never hurts.

That said, it's no replacement for good tactics and cover. It can compliment cover, and ECM, and be the difference between light damage and "OHMAHGERD THAT HURT". But if you get caught flatfooted, NARC'd and the OpFor decides to bring the rain, it won't make alick of difference.

Where it really shines is if more people have them, more people can overlap to create the AMS umbrella, and even in LRM heavy environs, combining that with cover and ECM (when possible) all but negates LRMs.

So, it IS useful, but it's just part of the equation. Anyone looking to hard counter LRMs with 1-2 AMS will be disappointed. Anyone who views it as a relatively cheap and light piece to the puzzle, will do fine.

That said, I have to admit, I run it only on a handful of Assaults, and my FS9-S (simply cuz it has 2), and haven't really noticed one way or the other. But as a Medium jock, I find the best AMS is patience and hard cover.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

AMS is better than nothing if you have a mech that is slower than 70 kph

For a good flanking maneuver you dont want AMS to blow away your position

[Charons Little Helper]

The range increase also made AMS considerably better against streaks / SRMs.

[OznerpaG]

i last used AMS 10 months ago for a few games, but found it a waste of space - i'd rather spend the tonnage on the engine for more speed. that being said, i don't own any mechs that go below 80kph and i know the maps like the back of my hand so i know how to stay close to cover and dodge incoming

if you are in a mech that goes slower than 70kph and/or you are new to the game, then AMS is totally worth it

Edited by JagdFlanker, 24 March 2014 - 08:17 PM.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Spheroid, on 24 March 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

@marmon: AMS toggle? Evidence please

I'm sorry my memory served me wrongly there. There is no way to turn it off. :/

There should be though

[VXJaeger]

As long as you are not narsistic ******* who doesn't care if your teammates die or not, it's worth carrying.
It's first thing I install into my mechs before anything else. Easier to build loadouts when it's already there.

Edited by VXJaeger, 25 March 2014 - 04:24 AM.

[Lord Perversor]

Spheroid, on 24 March 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

@marmon: AMS toggle? Evidence please

Marmon Rzohr, on 25 March 2014 - 12:13 AM, said:

I'm sorry my memory served me wrongly there. There is no way to turn it off. :/

There should be though

SHUTDOWN!! it works believe me!!

The main issue with AMS is as Bishop Steiner worte before, it's not a solution but part of it the more people carry one the more chances it can help and turn the situation.

As a quick example the other day i had a match on Alpine where i ended with 30+ spotting assists. i was able to hide behind the enemy team and tag them for my team boats to crush them.

The first 2 targets die rather quickly a SHD and a CTF that went alone but the third a Banshee withstood around 15+ secs of LRM salvos and made it out alive because it had Ams along 4-5 teammates near him.

[Kubernetes]

I recently (re)purchased a Stalker 5S just for dual AMS until LRMageddon passes (or at least until they move that 3F LRM boat out of the trial mech lineup). Verdict? Nothing to add--it's nice if other team members are also packing AMS. I've still gotten pummeled (guessing NARCed). Best you can really do is mitigate damage while running to better cover.

[SgtMagor]

since I started playing MechWarrior Online, I have always used AMS, and if your team have it mounted on their mechs you have an umbrella of protection against missiles, it is certainly worth a couple of tons to extend the life of your armor!