35 replies to this topic

[Not Bob]

Hey there! I actually started out in a Catapult K2 so I was in the same boat as you, but now I love my light mechs! My best games have actually been in lights (1400 in a Jenner, 1386 in an Ember). I've done really well in this Dual Ams FireStarter http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=138&l=f69a2418cfc9cf4005dd3c8021552da8205e8d7f. Now, this is probably the slowest you should go in a light mech (140Kph with tweak).

The real key with light mechs, is positioning yourself in a way to ambush. You'll want to hit the opponent in the back as often as possible. The armor is *always* lower, as that just makes sense, sow why work harder for your kills? Run in a round about way, behind enemy lines. (Now the great thing about the build above, it that Streaks are really really weakened against it, and LRMs are too! - But at the cost of speed). Hit them once, and run (Twice if they just stand there and take it) and then go to a new mech.

Now, often you're going to run into a Light Duel, where you're gonna be one on one with another light. This is where player skill comes in handy, but also knowledge of the enemy mech. One thing that I see alot of people doing is going for their legs, and while this is often a good tactic, know your opponent. Jenners have a HUGE ct. Aim for that, and you can barely miss, and while he might core your leg, he'll be dead. If you're fighting another FireStarter, the CT is much smaller, so it might be a much more valid tactic to go for its leg, and then let something else finish it off. (unless your armor is fine!). Basically as a light, you don't want to stay in a prolonged fight, because you are much less armored, and almost always outgunned.

Also, as I said above, know your opponent. If you see a jaged with 2 AC20s moving at 70KPH, Its got an XL engine, Shoot those side torsos! You literally cannot miss them, and when the shoulder pops, the Jager goes with it. So as you play on the battelfield, take note of what usually dies when their side torso gets blown off. It saves you lots of time, and health that you can use elsewhere.

Also, the advice that the other guy's have given is pretty solid!

If you want other builds on FireStarters, or Jenners, let us know, we'll gladly help you out!

(Also, I'd highly suggest the Ember, its an amazing mech, and I love the crap out of it. Archived 3.67 KDR, current 2.79)

[Adiuvo]

Some of the advice here is alright, but a lot of it is spotty at best...

There are only 3, maybe 4, light mechs you should be using. The JR7-F, JR7-D, RVN-3L, and FS9-E. These make up your skirmisher, light hunter, harasser, and brawler respectively. The rest of the light mechs may on occasion be serviceable but do not fulfill their respective niches as well as these 4.

Light piloting has the highest skill floor out of all of the chassis. You will effectively be useless for a long while as you learn the chassis, and ultimately most light pilots never graduate into a category of 'good.' However, lights honestly are the most fun and most dynamic class, so if you stick with it you'll be well-rewarded.

All lights short of the RVN-3L should be going max speed, or close to it. A 295 or 300 engine is a requirement for a Jenner, and a 295 for a Firestarter. This cannot be compromised on. You should not be going 140, or 135, etc.. 150 minimum.

There are two stages in a fight that a light has to keep in mind: the early stage, where you should primarily be focusing on poking with your bigs, and the late game stage where you should be brawling and hunting down crippled mechs. The exact point where the game switches between these stages can't really be taught. It's something you'll have to learn by feel, but it's pivotal to understand the way a match is going so you can respond appropriately.

During pug games there will always be one guy who goes off wandering by himself during the match. Your job as a light is to kill that one guy. Thanks to the recent JJ changes a light can 1v1 duel basically anything but a streakboat now. Since you're newish to lights this will be difficult but the best way to learn is to place yourself into dangerous situations - places where you can challenge yourself.

Also make sure you're using the proper builds. The following are the best, most effective builds for the chassis I listed above. Other people might have something else but for the proper, most effective roles for each of those mechs, these builds fit best.

JR7-F.
JR7-D.
RVN-3L.
FS9-E.

Really the best way to learn light mechs is to watch and emulate what other top light pilots are doing. Unfortunately there really aren't many competitive light mech streamers. I stream as my schedule allows, and I stream all of the House of Lords competitive matches. Captain Terrific, a light pilot for the Swords of Kentares (another top tier unit) also streams with some regularity. Besides us, there really aren't any competitive light pilots who stream on a regular basis. You should also take a look at Peefsmash's light guide video. It's a little bit outdated now but the basics still hold very true.

[mailin]

Sorry, Adiuvo, I strongly disagree with your Raven 3L build. I have seen this mech on the battlefield a LOT, and I tear it up in my 3L with 2 mlas, a TAG and 2 Streaks, or my Spider 5D with 3 mplas. Now, in packs, they can be deadly, but solo -- nope, nada.

[Adiuvo]

mailin, on 05 April 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

Sorry, Adiuvo, I strongly disagree with your Raven 3L build. I have seen this mech on the battlefield a LOT, and I tear it up in my 3L with 2 mlas, a TAG and 2 Streaks, or my Spider 5D with 3 mplas. Now, in packs, they can be deadly, but solo -- nope, nada.

That's not the point of the build, or a Raven. They aren't brawlers. They shouldn't be alone. It's a fire support mech. It needs to stick either in it's pack of bigs or close to them and shoot at whatever they're shooting at. This is also the reason why it can get away with having an undersized engine.

[SgtKinCaiD]

If you are duelling another mech for more than 30 seconds, get out : you are taking too much damage and his friends are coming.

[Modo44]

Taking one ERLL is probably safer in solo drops. It allows you to fight lights when the dual ERLL build is more likely to die.

[Eglar]

mailin, on 05 April 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

Sorry, Adiuvo, I strongly disagree with your Raven 3L build. I have seen this mech on the battlefield a LOT, and I tear it up in my 3L with 2 mlas, a TAG and 2 Streaks, or my Spider 5D with 3 mplas. Now, in packs, they can be deadly, but solo -- nope, nada.

wow I'm suprised Aduivo didn't pick on your use of mplas. The Raven 3L is the Light mech I often hop into. Exactly for the reasons stated by aduivo earlier: You are a support mech and the feeling is completely different from when you are speeding and jumping through hordes of enemy mechs in your jenner. Just imagine the 3L as a very fast and elusive ERLarge Stalker.

While I am not a dedicated or even a very good light pilot I do believe that it's generally much better to start off on lights with a very low mouse sensitivity (try around 0.4).


p.s.

Adiuvo, on 05 April 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

Light piloting has the highest skill floor out of all of the chassis.

pffffff...

[jper4]

if you're up against a heavy or assault and they have missiles- sweep the leg. you're pretty much lined up to shoot there anyway and sometimes you can get a crunchy ammo explosion kill because people like to 1) stuff ammo in the legs and 2) strip armor from the legs to fit more ammo/weapons. was in a group the other day where our light legged an atlas (i think was definitely an assault anyway) ammo explosion which went up to the side torso for...another ammo explosion. dead atlas. at worst you have a 1 legged heavy/assault that's a sitting duck for the rest of the team to pick off. and if the fight is actually mobile (pretty much only alpine or tourmaline- oh and terra i guess) that's one less big mech that can get to the main fight.

and as others said, if something shoots at you never, ever run away in a straight line. people love seeing a light's weak rear armor moving away in a perfectly straight line from their targeting recticle. even a Locust can survive a little bit longer if they retreat with an unpredictable movement.

[Asheron Storm]

First of all, speed =/= life. Agility = life. Change course and speed often. Just as a target moving along a predictable course is easier to hit then a target moving along an unpredictable course, so too is a target moving at predictable speed easier to hit than a target moving at unpredictable speeds.

Don't fly too high. Jumping is fun and useful. but cover is useful too. Practice jumping just high enough to clear whatever obstacle you need to clear. If you're in a city or mountainous region and don't see any enemy mechs, just run around the buildings and rocks so you don't give away your position.

Save a little something for the end. I'm mostly talking about fuel, and I didn't really think this needed to be said before yesterday, but you need to hit some thrust on the way down so you cushion your landing and don't damage your own legs. Your enemies will be hitting your legs every chance they get. Don't help your enemies leg you. Once legged, the average life expectancy of a light 'mech is .015 seconds.

In addition to fuel, it's a good idea to aim for doing most of your actual fighting toward the end of the match. At the beginning and middle of a fight, the light often has other things to do, such as providing ecm cover, spotting, distracting enemy support, and the like. You can do alot of good toward the end of a fight when your enemy is battered and broken and you're still toolin' around with your armor yellow and maybe one location internal (I'm not saying don't fight at all before the end). That said, don't wait so long that all your friends are dead.. getting focus fired in a light 'mech is life-ending and your friends won't appreciate you hangin' back too much either.

Pulse lasers are for nubs.. use them. If you're moving quickly and changing course and speed often, you can't really focus on aiming. I'm not saying all light pilots should always use pulse lasers, but pilots who are new to lights need to pick weapons that don't require you to hold your aim. Once you get practiced and feel comfortable piloting.. like "you could run through river city night in your sleep and not a hit a building" comfortable.., then it's time to start practicing your aiming.

Know where your friends are. The "circle of death" is great and all, but don't shield your enemy from those friends who are trying to attack them. either duck under or jump over friendly firing lines. Become aware of what weapons your friends are using and what their cooldown time is, so you know when not to be between your friends and your enemies.

Shoot your enemies between the legs from behind whenever possible. This is a center torso rear hit. Two great things about this location are that no matter what direction your enemy is torso twisting, this box is always facing the direction the legs are facing, and if you miss, you end up hitting the legs. In general, aim low and go for back strikes.

Hit "R". Perhaps this should have been first. Not only do you want to spot targets for any potential LRM support, but when your max damage is 15, you'd darn well better be putting all of that damage onto your opponent's most vulnerable location.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Big key for flying light: Know your role.

(Yeah, yeah, it's like that for every mech.)

When you were flying heavy, you had choices. Do I build a brawler, a poptart, a traditional sniper, a missile boat? Similar thinking here.

You actually DO have flexibility in your light mech build (unless it's the Huginn, in which case you should drop and do INFINITY pushups for validating that nonsensical junk mech). You can build your light, just like you did a heavy, for the role you intend to fill.

It wouldn't make much sense to build a CTF-3D with a bunch of PPCs if you wind up facehugging the enemy most matches. Likewise, a Splatcat ain't gonna hurt anyone at range. Same goes with building your light for its role.

So, I feel like these are kinda the roles for lights:

1.) Pack hunter. Runs with other lights. Hit-n-runs early on, circling large prey as the match progresses. They need speed and they need firepower, and they find crit-seekers especially useful. Locusts, Spiders, and Jenners are really good for this.

2.) Escort. ECM-equipped lights are good for this. Sticks to the pack o' heavies and assaults, like a Hello Kitty backpack for your buddy's FATLAS. Not so much concerned with speed, as the first portion of the match should be spent staying in the middle of the pack, keeping the Lurmpocalypse at bay. Keep enemy lights from focusing on your heavies at the back end of the match.

3.) Scout/recon. SPEED SPEED SPEED! The sooner you get your commander some real-time intel on what the enemy is doing, where he's doing it, and what he's using to do it, the better for your team (assuming teamwork matters at all, so 80-something percent of MWO players can safely disregard this role on any given day). First and most important task is to FIND the enemy. Best done without the enemy returning the favor, of course. BAP and TAG and ASR module are imperative. This mech obviously won't have a lot of room for firepower. Virtually every light can pull this off, so stick to the fastest. Locusts, Jenners, Spiders.

4.) Low-tonnage sniping. I've seen ERLLs used effectively in competitive play on Jenners and Ravens, and the ol' ERLL Spider sniper is also dangerous. I once fitted TWO AC2s to some poor Raven, just to troll a bit while I leveled up. At 35 tons or less, your drop commander might well appreciate a mech that can bust up some enemy formations at range without busting up his drop tonnage.

Might be more to it. The first three, really, are the main ones.

So, for a pack hunter, you want much speed, much armor (remember, you have to be survivable), and one or two decent weapons. A Jenner D or F packing a couple MPLs and an ASRM6 with an XL300 works well here. LCT-1V with 4MG and XL190, in a pack of 3 or 4, is seriously underrated for this role. Also, SDR-5K (I think?). Speed is their weapon, so I hesitate to recommend a Commando or RVN 2X/4X. Also, this will require at least some minimal coordination with your fellow pack hunters. You NEVER EVER EVER want to stop moving in this build. Full throttle from start to finish. Coordinate if you circle clockwise or counterclockwise, and stick to it religiously. Be sure to have a simple callout for the whole pack; when this word goes out in chat or on voice, the tactic changes, officially, for the remainder of the match, from quick strike to circling until death. Before the word, it's full speed pass with one alpha to the rear armor (or an identified open spot). After, it's constant circling (I prefer counterclockwise for some reason--is that weird?) of the called target until it's down, or until the commander calls you off. Also, the occasional Cavalry-style rescue is a possibility. Knowing the map, the routes with the most cover to get from A to B, is imperative for successful pack hunters. If one of your packmates goes astray, his wife just won the life insurance sweepstakes. Rich widow. You do the math.

Escort is my personal best role. Just fired up and dropped in a PUG for the first time in over four months tonight. RVN-3L with 265XL, BAP, ECM, AMS, 2xSSRM2, 3xMLas. I found a pack of heavy mechs and planted myself in the middle of it, as well as I could while sticking to cover. They took not ONE SINGLE LRM in that time. THAT is what I'm talking about. An enemy WVR got around our right and snuck up behind me (almost took me out with a pretty impressive alpha to my back). Great thing about being in the midst of 4 other mechs totalling 280-320 tons? That's a lot of got-your-back happening right there. I got a fresh armor plate in his face for a couple seconds, then split over a hill. If he followed me, he'd have his back to a Stalker and a Battlemaster, who just figured out he was there and were itching to get the match's first kill. When I got back around the hill, he was gone. Ran into him later... Anyhow, as the match progressed (losing effort on our part in a Skirmish) I had to occasionally jump between friendly packs. Nonetheless, it kept me relatively fresh, and by match's end I had 2 kills and 4 assists and 368 (or was it 386?) damage with a mech that does a 25-point alpha at 270 meters or less. This role is well-suited for any ECM mech, but it's one of the few where the ECM Commando can shine; it never requires a whole lot of speed. This is the time to build a light for electronic warfare (BAP and ECM at a minimum, best sensor-type modules, and maybe TAG, and definitely as much AMS as you can pack, all at the expense of speed, firepower, and armor (in that order)). If you've got the weight in your drop to spare, try maybe even bringing an ECM Cicada. Jump Jets aren't so important in this role (unlike all the others), so again the RVN-3L really hits the sweet spot here.

Scout/recon is what I started out trying to do. HONESTLY, in the right group it's important and will be greatly appreciated. Some teams use the pack hunters as a roving 3- or 4-mech scout party, but that's not what this role is. This is solo action. At MOST, it's a two-mech team. It's hunting, but with someone else pulling the trigger. Your job, and I CAN NOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH, is simply to find the enemy and make his position and movements known to your team without the enemy becoming aware of you. Being able to disappear at the first sign of the enemy's awareness is BIG. You'll need speed and all the jump jets you can get. BAP, ASR module, TAG (to get friendly LRMs on target with increased accuracy and effect without having line-of-sight). Armament is a secondary consideration to these things. Speed and maneuverability are priority number one, followed VERY closely by stealth. If you're spotted, you have to disappear and be able to reacquire lone-of-sight to the enemy from another concealed position again quickly, or move to another segment of the map to find the REST of the enemy (rarely do all twelve enemy mechs travel in a tight group, for the very reasonable fear of artillery and air strikes). JR7-K is a good one here, for sake of its extra module slot, speed, and JJs. Other than the JJs, Locusts fit in here very well, especially the 3M. Spiders are well equipped, too.

For the low-ton sniper build, try a RVN-3L with 2xERLL. You won't be reasonably able to get to the BEST sniper roosts on Alpine Peaks, but it should otherwise suffice. Or, try the same armaments in a JR7. Spiders are also great at this, but the RVN puts the lasers up higher than any other light, which is great for minimizing your exposure to enemy fire (kinda like how the CPLT-J and CPLT-K2 are such great snipers--the RVN just weighs half as much and can go faster and can protect itself with ECM). It's not a GREAT sniper, but if that's your play style and you're sticking to it, it can still be done well and with great reward to the skilled mechwarrior.


Hope that helps. I don't know the Firestarter/FS9 chassis at all. It may well be the Second Coming, but I haven't gotten to play with it yet. What I hear so far is that it's fun, but not necessarily ready to dethrone the Jenner as the best overall light mech chassis.

The JR7-D(S) was perhaps the best out-of-the-box light mech ever made available in this game. Building a -3L Raven is expensive, but it's worth it if you can live without JJs. I'm hesitant to recommend the COM chassis for anything, really, unless you really want an escort mech but just can't afford the RVN-3L's price tag or tonnage. Aside from lacking missiles, there's nothing the SDR can't do. LCTs are really squishy and haven't quite come to be respected, but done well they are scary--fastest mech in the game, and I've taken down a fresh RVN-3L head-to-head in a LCT-3M, cored it.

If you know how you play, or how you want to play, or even how you wanted to lights to play when you were flying heavy, then find the light that can be built best to suit that style of play. Build it, play it, and come find me in game.

:-)

[ApolloKaras]

Eh I'll throw my 2 cents in here. Might be a dollar by the time I'm through lol. I run lights almost exclusively in 12 man.

Know your light. Jenner's are easily CT'd. Firestarters, Raven's, lolcusts, and spiders are easily legged. Firestarters, and Jenners can be hot plus have jumpjets these are the prime candidates for hit and run. 6/8 medium lasers can really do some serious damage to the rear of any mech. Pick your targets carefully, preferably ones that will not be able to return fire & chase you lol. Who cares if you run a little warm if you do get yourself caught in an extended engagement then fire 3 meds at a time.

If you are purely a scout then a SDR-5D with a UAV, Tag is optional, ECM, Info gathering is a great choice. Jump jets, small profile and of course ECM. You can get yourself into areas where your Raven counterpart cannot. If you do tag be careful who you tag. Tag the rear element first. If someone is on my team I can see if they are being tagged, also don't have the thing running constantly, some pilots can pick that out. Yes the spider is underpowered/under gunned, but if you are learning to recon its fine.

Light Firesupport+annoying as hell factor: The 3L. Go with Adiuvo's build, it will help you learn positioning and keeping distance. I love that mech.

A few Do's and Don't(s):

DO Run away from the following: Shadowhawk 2D2, KTO-18/GB/20, Oxides, ML boats (≥6 Medium lasers).

DO use the 'R' key, you'll never know if they are weak a target worth ganking. Also this relays important information to your teammates.

DO Strike from the back against unwary opponents

DO Your role! Are you a scout, or are you a hit an run?

Do Run away when you are spotted. The team knows where you're at and will have guns trained on you when you pop out again, making you a dead scout.

Do have situation awareness!! This means keeping your head on a swivel. If you are having problems with this bring seismic. Don't lean on it too heavily though, a stopped light is a dead one. Also if you did get jumped ask yourself, How far was I into enemy territory? From what venue did they take? What shot me? Think about how you could have approached it differently and learn . This just doesn't pertain to your immediate surroundings this also goes for your entire team, Are my teammates being harassed, is the base being capped? (Although not so much now that turrets are in)

DO run away when engaged, you might have the upper hand against that LRM boat (oh I love those LRM boats), odds are they will have friendlies coming. Do your damage and vacate

DO fight in numbers.

DO NOT DUEL ANOTHER LIGHT. I can't say this enough. You can be a great shot but if the other guy is just as good you'll both leaving the fight very banged up. Avoid the light v light fight at all costs. There are a few exceptions. You have 5 medium lasers, and you stumble on a 2 ERLL Raven for instance, or a Locust.

DO NOT attract too much attention. Remember you want to jump out of the shadows and jump right back in.

DO NOT worry about damage numbers. You're a light you can help your team out in sooo many ways other than just damage.

If I think of something I'll add it. Lights can be quite difficult to get used to, however they can be extremely rewarding too. I hope you have a good experience. Its a high learning curve so it can take a little to get used to but keep at it.

Edited by Saxie, 09 April 2014 - 07:24 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

(Listen to Saxie. Killed me more than once in comp. Just sayin'.)

[AllSpark]

About that Raven 3L with 2 ERLL build. I exclusively run in that Mech and build and nothing else. Personally I prefer using XL295 with one DHS less than the build you have there Adiuvo. I just don't see that much of a difference in heat management to justify the drop in top speed - even though it is just ~8 kph difference.

[Daith]

thanks for all the hints Folks!

I suggest additionally that you all Change to bigger mechs to not annoy all the light haters out there

[Not A Real RAbbi]

AllSpark, on 11 April 2014 - 04:44 AM, said:

About that Raven 3L with 2 ERLL build. I exclusively run in that Mech and build and nothing else. Personally I prefer using XL295 with one DHS less than the build you have there Adiuvo. I just don't see that much of a difference in heat management to justify the drop in top speed - even though it is just ~8 kph difference.

Ah, I hate that build. Just not my style, though it IS kinda hard to argue with the range and damage of those big ERLLs.

Still, there was this one time, on Crimson Strait, that I ran into just such a RVN-3L out on the point. We did the dance, him in his Raven and me in my LOLcust -3M. Just couldn't bring myself to pilot a Raven build that I (not much of a pilot, to be honest) had managed to beat from fresh in a LOLcust.

But again, knife-fighting isn't that build's strength. It's a sniper that can relocate quickly and avoid enemy fire a little better. If it had JJs, everyone would scream that the build is too meta and OP.

[BigFatGator]

Thanks again everyone. Finally have the Firestarters fully mastered, working on medium (Shadowhawks) now. Getting matches with my Firestarters where my dammage is good now, K/D still a touch low, but doing 200-300+ dmg in an avg match now (sometimes 50 sometimes 500, just like with my Jagers)

For any potential light mech pilots, here is my summary of what worked for me:

1) Do not think that 120kph is fast enough. It isn't. Spring for the biggest xl that will fit as soon as possible. The difference in evasion between 120 and 150 is larger than it first seems.
2) Read carefully what Adiuvo said about the 'turning point' of a match. Before things start to get ragged, you need to stick close to teammates and peck every once in a while, once it gets to 6-6 or so then you can cut loose and wreck havoc... sometimes sooner sometimes later, but every non-steamroll match has a turning point and you'll learn over time when that is.
3) Don't overheat, ever. Firestarter trap of 7-8 ML is a just that- a trap. 6 ML is max. Watch your heat like a hawk.
4) Hang in until you get the chassis mastered before you decide lights aren't for you. The difference between a basic mech and one with 2x basics and mastered is huge.
5) Avoid duels with other lights like the plague. Unless you're the bstard with the streaks.