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Light Damage Discount


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#1 CSHubert

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 05:30 AM

I need to know now: Does lights recieve a damage "discount"? Reason for asking is me shooting 2 and 3 AC20 shots at an immobile light only to see him wake up (overheat) and waltz on with a few scratches... This is not trolling, but a clearance so I dont waste heavy ammo on the little ********....

#2 Modo44

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 05:44 AM

No, just HSR messing up. Lights seem especially magical at times, but shots can disappear into any mech.

Edited by Modo44, 02 April 2014 - 05:44 AM.


#3 Adiuvo

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 04:48 PM

The hitboxes on most lights is rather right, so you possibly could have spread between CT and ST with your shots.

#4 Mad Porthos

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 06:42 PM

I know how this feels, but it's not always HSR either. People's gut feeling of what a mech should and should not be able to take is often askew. I tend to pilot heavies and mediums, but I've had more than my share of lights and so I know it from both sides. Let me give an example of where this gets weird and is sometimes misinterpreted.

I'm on Terra Therma, earlier today, in my Yeng Lo Wang, running an AC20, 4 tons of ammo and an ER Large Laser, xl280. It's a pretty good build, I know how to twist, turn parry and thrust as it were and keep my big gun exactly as long as I have ammo left to funnel through it, then tend to sacrifice it. I got in a fight with a Jenner F, who had been harrassing a battlemaster. The battlemaster kept alpha striking, meaning he fired 4 medium torso lasers, and like 4 x lrm10's at the jenner, often at about 50-100m range. He glanced just about every part of the jenner's body, making him yellow all over on his armor... but from what I saw in the approach, not once did he actually get any solid burns on the jenner, yet he was overheating from all the useless missiles he was firing too, sometimes before he could even get the full "burn" on target.

6 medium lasers meanwhile were doing a number on the battlemaster. Getting into a firing angle I started hitting the Jenner F with the ER Large laser, hacking at legs...the legs got a little yellower. Hacked a bit more at the legs, sort of slashing ER Large Laser shots, using the duration of the beam to burn and placing it ahead of the Jenner-F so he would jump THROUGH the stream. Yellowish orangish legs - one of them at least. Took a shot with the AC20. All leg armor gone on what was formerly an orangish leg.

Someone spectating at that point started saying it was BS, the AC20 should have taken the leg clean off, that leg was yellow. Myself, I had no time to type, but they were wrong. That Jenner Leg could have 32 armor on it... I could hit it with a full perfect ER Large Laser shot AND an AC20 and it could still have external armor. But again, I perservered, working on the Jenner who finished the battlemaster, who was an XL engine boat. The Jenner then turned at me and started his work. I hacked again at his leg that was now open but still had internal structure, but the Jenner was canny, he'd jumped mid air facing me, but had somehow done a torso turn right before the jump / as he jumped and the damaged leg was facing away from me... making my ER Large hit his other, near undamaged leg. I jerked the laser up into his side torso/arm area seeing this and did some collateral damage across his weapon bearing arms and side torso. Unleashing the AC20, it hit this lightly damaged leg too, this time doing a decent number on it, leaving it open armor since it had taken some of the ER Large shot.

My little commentator / spectator now was raging in the team chat channel about how the Jenner was using ARMOR HAX. I'm like WTF?!?!? Chill, I'm on it, Holmes. The Jenner, crafty as ever realizes his legs are in a bad way, and decides if he stops jumping and hugs me, I'm so tall I can't hit his legs with my ac20 or with my ER Large in the center torso of the Wang. He's wrong, but it does make it harder when he's up in my grill. I have some heat issues, but unleash the AC20... hitting the Jenner by chance, in the head. He runs more than enough armor there to survive this shot, at least what...6 in his head? Probably more like 12 or 18, plus the 15 points of internal structure that every one forgets apparently when they think lights will crumble in a single blow.

I start to mambo a bit, backing and turning to keep him off my posterior, something not so hard to do in a Yeng Lo doing about 100kph, and it affords me another good shot. I decide to alpha, holding my arm lock down. Boom, catch the guy in the left arm with the AC20 and the ER LL, blowing off his 3 medium lasers from there. Earlier Laser damage had helped by this point and now that side torso armor was looking fairly thin. But this Jenner really wanted me as a kill. I'd taken a gauss shot to my back, it turned out from one of our own gauss jaegers shooting at this Jenner and he wanted to exploit it, figuring I must have an XL to be moving as I was and using a Large Laser. He started jumping again, and got near my back but only managed to paste my cannon arm. Meanwhile I was turning trying to get a second cannon shot on his destroyed arm/torso side which since the arm was gone would really mean I was catching his side torso which was red external armor. He was a bit too fast, I missed. He then started circling, the death circle, but the opposite direction from what he'd done before, turning his fresh arm and side torso to me and trying to get up behind me on a hill side. I hit with the AC20 and the ER Large again as I was backing up, but he had just passed me and it hit his back armor, doing alot of internal damage to his Center Torso internals, orangeish, but not the damaged side torsos. Dumb damn luck, usually you can't help but hit the FRONT center torso of a Jenner, but I catch the rear, not the side or front torsos. My laser shot gets both the legs deep orange-red though and I figure I'm close to legging the little punk.

By this point I was getting really discouraged by my aim and my dumb luck and was seriously considering just dropping an artillery strike on myself and kill that Jenner punk too. Dumb, I know, but I was frustrated, hitting everywhere but where I needed to. My next good chance to fire comes as the Jenner leaps over me again, trying to get behind me once more for the exploit of the gauss friendly fire hit in my back. I am pointing my AC20 straight at the top of the screen with my reticule dead center and fire. Boom, his Center Torso Front now flashes. GDAmmnit! Typical on the Jenner, huge Center Torso eats up many hits. His internal structure Center Torso is a cherry red now, with no external armor left. I pivoted away, denying the back shot as he lands and fires again, trying to get my cannon arm again, opening it up but not destroying the AC20. I'm well and truly annoyed by this point, so aim low at the ground and Alpha. Catching him just as he starts to death circle, on an open internal structure leg, it is vaporized and I try to sweep the ER Large onto the other leg to finish it too... he already has acceleration and hearing my AC20 shot he realizes he has lost his leg and hits his jump jets to get as much distance from me as he can before becoming "dead in the water" with one limping leg.

I backed away then to protect my back and saw his buddies coming up hill from the valley behind him, a damaged Dragon with a gauss and a thunderbolt with a lot of lasers, but missing a side torso (standard engine), and with open armor on other torsos. I had been about to drop an artillery strike right on top of the Jenner, but instead fired the airstrike on him. Realizing his buddies coming up over the ridge behind him would be funneled into a tight space behind him, the air strike was the right choice. They were caught by the extended rectangle of it and the Thunderbolt died with the Jenner as I ran away, choosing the better part of valor against the gauss dragon. A moment later he died to my allies arriving from behind ME, though he took my AC20 with his last gauss shot before he went down.

That Jenner. What a mess. I had three people telling me how incompetent I was at first, then later how the Jenner must be hacking. I even had a guy afterwards message me in the social tab and say in a continuation of the commentary from the match, that he'd seen that Jenner pilot do that before and he must be hacking or making a lag shield so that the AC20 hits didnt' register. Me, I didn't doubt that the Jenner was legitimate. He was a fine pilot and for me, in my Yeng Lo, it was a challenge to hit him with his changing up from moment to moment for his attack plan. Also, though I'm sure he was very lucky, his actions were deliberately spreading the damage everywhere he could.

I remembered his name and a few minutes ago, I saw him online so I texted him. Told him good job on that Terra game earlier. He was flattered, said he was used to coring Yeng Lo Wangs and teabagging thier smouldering wreckage. Bit of a punk, no? But he also said, I'd done well and actually, if I had blown his side torso off, he'd have still been going. He was running a STANDARD ENGINE JENNER. I was like, wtf? How did you have 6 medium lasers. Turned out, he ran very very very little armor, except in his legs. And about enough armor elsewhere to deal with one AC20 hit and one LL hit. He was relatively slow, like maybe 120 somethingish with his speed tweak, but with effective jumping, that let him often move half speed stopping and starting quickly and unpredictably.

This Jenner pilot was just one. There are plenty of standard engine spiders out there, and sneaky ravens, and homicidal maniacal Firestarters. If they know just how to time you, they can be alot tougher than you expect, because they have developed that skill. It's not that damage is reduced to them, or that they are too armored, it's that the pilot really does have alot to do with the effectiveness of any mech you have. Whether it's a Jenner or a Raven 4x, in the right hands you can see wonders. Sure, the 4x won't be giving the Jenner a run for it's money, but either one could kick the teeth in on a Medium or even a Heavy, WITH THE RIGHT PILOT and build.

Edited by Mad Porthos, 07 April 2014 - 08:42 PM.


#5 Koniving

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 06:51 PM

AC/20 Raven Pre-HSR against Spiders.

Downfall is back then there was a half second delay (or longer) just to get to shoot. Click...wait...wait...BANG!

#6 Mazzyplz

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 07:06 PM

yes, they get a discount.
bottom line.


sorry!!!
maybe come back when the game is working, which is an unknown date in the future

esp. if they're shutdown!! they will take a lot of shots to do anything if they're shutdown, it seems to be a bug

Edited by Mazzyplz, 07 April 2014 - 07:12 PM.


#7 Saint Scarlett Johan

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 07:40 PM

As a light pilot, there are times when I get hit by stuff that should've straight ended me. Sometimes it's pilot skill, sometimes it's HSR being a *****, sometimes depending on the chassis it's bad hitbox design. When I ran spiders, I could get hit in the rear with an AC20 or Gauss and watch 2 or sometimes 3 panels flicker, when that round should've either crippled me or killed me. I've seen it in all my mechs (Atlas included), but the Spiders and Ravens were the biggest offenders.

But it's usually mostly HSR and poor hitboxes. I've got horrible internet that fluctuates between 60 to 200 depending on time of day. When my ping is upwards of 100 but below 180 is when I get the biggest breaks from lady luck (HSR and hitboxes), where shots that would've killed me with lower ping merely do grazing damage or none at all.

And if I shutdown while going in excess of 150kph my mech stops on a dime, but I'm sure the hitbox is elsewhere, as I usually survive far more shots than I should've.

#8 Mad Porthos

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:28 PM

You know, there is something to that multiple hitbox thing too. I recall games where my Yeng Lo had it's Center Torso quickly damaged and I lost the ER Large off it, but was not dead. Very dangerous for me to be explosed, but occasionally I'd take a pot shot with the AC20. I'd be looking at a jenner, spider or raven come around a corner, seeking to end me and I'd fire the 20, as they charged trying to get my CT with their lasers, usually as I was torso twisting away. What do I see? Arm and Side Torso flash, or Arm, Side Torso and Center Torso flash, when I am the ONLY person hitting them and all I have is ONE AC20.

An AC20 should only hit ONE location, yet sometimes seems to spread, in the way that I hear so many people say they want autocannons to spread, in "burst fire". As a result, the devastating 20 points of damage doesn't really seem so devastating since I would suspect that somehow it's been spread across the three now yellow areas of impacted mech. What mechanic does this, I do not know. Perhaps when one first gets the target on radar and the target information is being "gathered" you will see a BLANK no mater what, as if the enemy mech was undamaged, even though it previously had damage in two or three areas already. Then my AC20 hitting one area causes the UPDATE of the information... but hey, I kinda doubt it, cause then you would at least think that ONE area would be much more damaged than the other two.

So what's the deal, dunno. Alot of torso twisting as I mentioned above can make a huge difference, but yes, I too have seen these odd splashes with supposedly instant hitting weapons like AC rounds and PPC hits.

#9 Crotch RockIt

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 09:19 AM

Weird things sometimes happen with shutdown mechs, and not just lights, either.

Last night I was pugging my Streakhawk 2D2 (4 x SSRM and 2 x LL) on Canyon in Assault. Our team wasn't organized and lost a few mechs early on. Someone on our team typed a command to RTB so that we could regroup by our turrets. Most of the team actually complied, and we made our stand near base with most of us on low ground (unfortunately). The OpFor was closing in on us from two sides, taking the high ground, with one side shielded by the ECM of a D-DC about 200~300 meters from me. Someone on our team typed out that someone needed to take out that D-DC. I was hugging the cliff, unseen in cover, but my seismic sensor was picking up activity above me.

I decided, "what the heck" and decided to try to flank the D-DC alone, since my mech was still at almost 100% (hadn't been able to engage much yet). So I ran along the bottom of the cliff and jetted up to the top to see what I could see. I turned a corner and there he was, so I popped off a quick Alpha, while simultaneously noticing that I was in view of 3 or 4 other enemy mechs nearby. Seeing how badly I was outnumbered, I decided to drop back down off the cliff and retreat. But the D-DC saw me as an easy kill and decided to drop off the cliff, too, which shielded us both from the view of everyone else (and left his team outside of his ECM bubble). I'm never one to back down from a 1v1 duel, so I started to dance with the D-DC, hopping around to tank as much damage with my legs as possible. My repeated dual LL alphas were taking a toll on me, though, and I was close to overheating. Then I noticed an enemy Dragon was butting in on our dance and I panicked, attempting one final alpha strike at the Atlas while simultaneously twisting away. Unfortunately, this move had the combined effect of mostly missing with the lasers and then shutting down with my back turned to both the Atlas and the Dragon, only a few meters away from them. "Oh well," I thought. "I'll never survive long enough to power back up again, because the Atlas had already managed to strip most of my armor off by this point."

The seconds ticked away, and suddenly I was powered back up again! WTF? I couldn't imagine how I wasn't dead from the combined firepower of the heavy and assault directly behind me. So I swung around and got a lock on the closest mech, the Dragon, and fired off my streaks, followed shortly by a laser. I didn't even have time to see the Dragon's paper doll, but luckily for me he died from that salvo. Guess he already had an open torso, but he did have both arms, so presumably most of his weapons had still been operable. Then it was just me and the D-DC again. My maneuverability advantage allowed me to stay either off to his side or above him (via JJ) for most of the remainder of the fight, and I was able to whittle him down to a weaponless stick before finally killing him.

While I had been tangoing, the rest of my team had been taking care of business and we still had 5 mechs left to their 2. My health was down to 44% with one leg, one arm, and torso showing internals. So I hobbled back to the nearby base and the last 2 enemy mechs were soon killed by our team.


TL:DR. I should have been killed when my heavily damaged mech shut down in front of an Atlas and a Dragon. Either the hit registry was borked, or those two pilots couldn't hit the back of a Shawk at almost point-blank range.

Edited by Crotch RockIt, 08 April 2014 - 09:24 AM.


#10 Spleenslitta

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 01:02 PM

My Jenner got hit by a PPC but didn't take any damage that i could see.
It must have been beyond 90 meters...but i didn't check the number....or even if it might have been an ER PPC.

So my report doesn't say much. Nothing confirmed. Just my intuition. I should have gotten damaged back then. I think.

#11 Koniving

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 01:28 PM

People with high ping should conserve their ammunition against lights, resorting instead to the use of laser weaponry.
Please remember when you see the enemy shut down and you have a ping of 150, he has already powered up.
When you see him power up, he is already gone.

Unlike mechs under 130 kph, faster lights are already doing things before you see them, and HSR will frequently have trouble coping. (One of the many reasons I think speed shouldn't get so high and weapons rebalanced according with more of a DPS focus as from the source material you cannot go that damn fast anyway).

So, ping above 150, lasers against lights. If your ping is lower than 150 (yet above 80) and the light's ping is 125 and up then you will also have trouble hitting that light with ballistics and missiles. Anticipate and shoot ahead, You'd be surprised how effective it is. This trick's as old as closed beta.

View PostSpleenslitta, on 08 April 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

My Jenner got hit by a PPC but didn't take any damage that i could see.
It must have been beyond 90 meters...but i didn't check the number....or even if it might have been an ER PPC.

So my report doesn't say much. Nothing confirmed. Just my intuition. I should have gotten damaged back then. I think.


"What you see isn't what the server sees." All client-side weapon animations and effects are exactly what the server sees, but not at the same time the server saw it.
Example, the enemy fired too far ahead of you and saw it miss. The server decided it missed but communicates the trajectory to you. BAM! You ran into it (sucker!) but since the server already said it missed, nothing happens. After all, that shot is 0.5 to 0.9 seconds old and had passed you before you hit it.

Edited by Koniving, 08 April 2014 - 05:36 PM.


#12 Koniving

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 01:36 PM

Before "HSR", all weapons took 0.5 seconds to appear, and it showed us what the server sees. Problem was the mech positions could not possibly show us that as it happens and so we led ahead with the intention to hit the air in front of the target because that's where the target really is.

Now, the 0.5 second delay is not shown to you. Your shot occurs before your shot occurs.
Basically pull the trigger. You see the shot. 0.5 seconds later, "you fired." At close range when you see the shot hit something, you actually just "fired" when you saw the target get hit.
Except the target isn't there anymore, and wasn't there since before you shot, let alone when you fired.

Think of it like a time paradox. We call this "lag" with "lag compensation."
Except unlike most games where "I shoot," and the game says "I shoot and killed this dude" to the server, the server of that game says "Okay, whatever, okay dude that the guy just shot even though you already went around the corner, this guy killed you." (then the player that got killed cries "HACKS!")
MWO works like this. Your game client says "I shoot at this guy." Server says "Oh yeah? what's your ping?." "150." Server asks the other guy, "What's your ping?" "300." So the server sits down pulls out a calculator and gets to work. "Mkay, so your ping is 150 and you shoot here and we draw the bullet path and this other dude has a ping of 300 so he thinks he's here... sorry man, he aint' there but PGI says I can't rubber band him ahead to where he is. It looks bad."
And your game shouts Bullseye, but the feedback from the server says "Bulls-it!" And now, you're wondering if they get a damage discount.

#13 xMintaka

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 01:37 PM

View PostKoniving, on 08 April 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:

Before "HSR", all weapons took 0.5 seconds to appear, and it showed us what the server sees. Problem was the mech positions could not possibly show us that as it happens and so we led ahead with the intention to hit the air in front of the target because that's where the target really is.

Now, the 0.5 second delay is not shown to you. Your shot occurs before your shot occurs.
Basically pull the trigger. You see the shot. 0.5 seconds later, "you fired." At close range when you see the shot hit something, you actually just "fired" when you saw the target get hit.
Except the target isn't there anymore, and wasn't there since before you shot, let alone when you fired.

Think of it like a time paradox. We call this "lag" with "lag compensation."
Except unlike most games where "I shoot," and the game says "I shoot and killed this dude" to the server, the server of that game says "Okay, whatever, okay dude that the guy just shot even though you already went around the corner, this guy killed you." (then the player that got killed cries "HACKS!")
MWO works like this. Your game client says "I shoot at this guy." Server says "Oh yeah? what's your ping?." "150." Server asks the other guy, "What's your ping?" "300." So the server sits down pulls out a calculator and gets to work. "Mkay, so your ping is 150 and you shoot here and we draw the bullet path and this other dude has a ping of 300 so he thinks he's here... sorry man, he aint' there but PGI says I can't rubber band him ahead to where he is. It looks bad."
And your game shouts Bullseye, but the feedback from the server says "Bulls-it!" And now, you're wondering if they get a damage discount.


Best. Explanation. Ever.

#14 Koniving

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 01:43 PM

For a visual example of the above, this was when Spiders first came out. Note that between how easily they are killed here and how invincible they had become, absolutely NOTHING was done to their hitboxes. It was simply the implementation of HSR with some bugs in calculating where targets are based on ping.

Note, you can sort of hear the "click" of my mouse, and half a second later the bullet is fired from the AC/20. This is with a ping between 68 and 89. The higher your ping, the longer that delay is for things to appear on the server and for feedback to get back to you and the more you have to adjust. It used to be quite a bit worse. If your ping rapidly changes you will find yourself having a lot of trouble hitting anything.

#15 Koniving

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 01:49 PM

Note: The reason lasers, flamers, and by extension machine guns when used properly work so well even against fast high ping targets when you yourself have high ping is because they are hit-scan weapons. Their travel time is instant and it's a simple raytrace. No velocity calculation, no guesswork, it's literally "Could Player A with his hitscan weapons be looking at Player B at this point in time with these pings? Yes? Okay you hit him, now go away." (4 seconds later.) "Oh hell, you again? Yes you hit him. Go away." "Again? You hit him! Go away! I'm busy trying to do some real calculations with these damn bullets and the bullet drop and the slow velocity and the missile clusterduck that's coming around the corner and yes you hit him go away!"

The poor server. :) But yeah, lasers, MGs, and flamers work (in terms of 'hitting' the enemy) a lot better than any other weapon. Pulse lasers even better than regular ones since they have fewer 'scans' and deal more damage per 'scan'.

Nothing fries an enemy spider faster than some medium pulse lasers backed by some MGs.
Except maybe streaks when possible.

Edited by Koniving, 08 April 2014 - 01:51 PM.


#16 Mad Porthos

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 05:50 PM

I'm thinking the much bemoaned shut down spider, or other light being missed for damage when shutdown is due to both HSR and convergence effects. Here is what I mean. HSR as is being mentioned above, may end up meaning that while I am properly pointing at a mech and I shoot and think I hit it, based on what I see, even though that mech may have a much lower ping than I and on his end think he's safe, around a corner, or 50 meters further along from where I'm aiming... I will hit him, if the SERVER agrees that I really was pointing at him, at the right "relative" point in time. The thing is, what trajectory my ACTUAL aim and shot follows is very often determined by convergence on the point under the reticule, and if HSR is actively trying to figure out if I hit or not, and my aim point is on target, then off target, then on target again... at the instant that it's "rewinding" to check and see if the trajectory would properly intersect, my reticule might have very briefly been off target. So in it's calculations, it's a miss. Yet it's already happened. I saw the shot, it seemed to hit. Where's the flash? Where's the damage confirmed on the paper doll? Nada. Cause of convergence's dicey supposedly instant nature, interacting with HSR, where despite you pointing dead on target, the game mechanics still doesn't agree that the mech is REALLY under your crosshairs, so doesn't give the right "soloution" for convergence to hit up close, letting it instead aim past that target. Likely this is the cause of what is so often instead just referred to as "hitbox" holes and lag shield.

The shut down situation makes this even worse, though there's a lot of speculation I could voice as to why. First off, when a light shuts down, it probably was moving VERY fast for a moment and if it's ping was low, it may not actually be at the "place" where you think it was, even though it seems to be, it's shutdown happened at a point in time where it's "reported" location might have been a few meters further along. Now, you aim at it on screen but you don't have the nice red brackets to center your reticule on, so you are also not entirely sure if you are physically aiming on his hitboxes or the hill right behind him, or even the ground just to the left of his knee. If it's at one of those other locations and you fire from your arm mounted ac20 or some such... say even 2 ac20 on a Jaeger, your shots seem to angle inwards roughly correctly, and you maybe even get a satifying impact sound, but no flash on that little spidey... maybe he's in a bit of a flash/cloud so you thought you hit him, but really, your own rounds just bracketed him going left, right and exploded behind him on the ground. That flash and boom was "drawn" over him sort of, but he wasn't really hit. Hence again, no damage on the paper doll.

Last of all, sometimes on a power down that I was aiming at AS IT WAS POWERING DOWN, the target "range" suddenly zooms out to like 400 meters (range of hill behind the mech), or such even though the target definitely WAS still under my reticule. It made me think there may be a section of code where on power down, it attempts to "delete" the target off the valid target/sensor list in a way which requires "reacquisition", meaning that for a split second or two, there is effectively no mech there and convergence is free once again to go to default and to aim at the "nearest" target otherwise... ie. hills or ground behind. This is just like above, forcing the trajectory to snap to a path/angle for the projectile that takes it around the shut down target, left or right of it - but then a split second later the convergence is back on target as the normal reticule measurement kicks back in on the shut down mech. I see this happen too when a shut down mech POWERS back up. The shot I'm taking at it mysteriously goes awry with my targeting as the "range" of the reticule zooms out and then flickers back down to the actual range of the target that I have been dead eye steady on. It's weird but it does seem to be happening and based on a few unscientifically viewed videos and some of my own spectating, it could be what is happening so often with others.

I think that when one is using Machine Guns/ Hitscan weapons, on a shutdown mech, this still may happen, but there is so much fire coming as DPS that it still adds up, even if a few bullets go astray here and there due to the convergence flipping to far away, then close again. For Streaks, it's just a guaranteed hit no matter what if it was targetted, so for hitting mechs which are close, it's great... just can't fire when they are shut down of course before lock acquisition. As for medium pulse, once again, because there are several large discreet "chunks" of damage, even if one of the medium pulse lasers big damage ticks misses because convergence says it has to angle differently (off target) it's likely the other two damage ticks/pulses will still be on target compared to a medium or large laser where you see the duration of the laser beam swing off target or seem to "invisible wall" into something for a large part of the duration, then swings back into the target as the reticule properly adjusts to the actual range... then swings off again if it's powering back up. Again, I'll say it. It's weird and serves to make these mechs harder to hit, both because they are no longer bracket highlighted plus because of the interference with the convergence.

Edited by Mad Porthos, 10 April 2014 - 12:47 PM.


#17 Koniving

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 11:07 PM

I might be the only person that understood all that Mad Porthos, but you're quite right. I've actually noticed a convergence malfunction earlier today. I shot and my bullet took a huge diagonal turn away from what I was shooting. Despite being "instant," convergence isn't quite as instant as we think.

#18 Kilbourne Jorgensson

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 11:08 PM

I'm pleased to see such good explanations which really just seem to illustrate that with the HSR that light mechs are broken. A lag shield is not a pilot skill nor fair play. It enters the arena of an exploit. Of course it is a publisher sponsored exploit.

#19 The Basilisk

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:27 AM

You arent dreaming. There are times you hit immobile, shut down mechs with loads and loads of pinpoint weaponsfire and the only thing that happens is their armor diagram is blinking your crosshair turns red and then they wake up and turn you into a scrapheap.

Reason halluzinating HSR and Mechfist size holes in their hitboxes.
The smaler mechs seem to have more issues of that kind than the larger ones but except some very odd experiences I made myself with mechs like the Spider, the Shadowhawk and the Commando I have no real prove of it.

Edit to clarify it: Crosshair DID blink red and yes the armor diagram as well DID blink and the spider I'm talking about was already shut down for several seconds.
I don't use Weapons like AC20 aor PPCs much in the above mentioned case I used Gauss and Large lasers.

Edited by The Basilisk, 10 April 2014 - 12:40 AM.


#20 ShinVector

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 02:05 AM

View PostCSHubert, on 02 April 2014 - 05:30 AM, said:

I need to know now: Does lights recieve a damage "discount"? Reason for asking is me shooting 2 and 3 AC20 shots at an immobile light only to see him wake up (overheat) and waltz on with a few scratches... This is not trolling, but a clearance so I dont waste heavy ammo on the little ********....


This problem is possibly convergence bug and it is something you can probably only seem after server side hit effects is patched in.

I got some proof of the bug happening from Public Test Server but it happens quite fast and maybe hard to see.

At around 6min mark I leg Eglar Cent and was aiming for the other leg... I had a hell of a difficult time getting it and infact I didn't get it in the end.

6min 00s - Eglar is legged and stuggling.
6min 2sec - Do see that at the back in the background next to his left torso the explosion ? That has to be my AC5 shot.. Why did it go there ? My crosshair was not pointed there.
6min 4sec - It happens again. Aiming for this leg again. I see another explosion in the background that has to be my AC5 shot on the left this next to my left wind shield bar. Again.. Why did the shot go there ??

Now you got to think about this..
Without server side hit effects. My client would have probably shown me that I hit his leg but did No damage.

This is my current theory on this.. Maybe it has something to do with the cent or being too close to me or him have 240ms latency in that game. Don't blame the lights... I think one of the primary suspects now is weapon convergence bugs.


Edited by ShinVector, 10 April 2014 - 02:19 AM.






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