99 replies to this topic

[PaintedWolf]

I have seen several posts "Clan Lights-Dead on Arrival?" So I decided to analyze Clan Mechs vs Inner Sphere.

There are 2 Clan Lights. 2. Compared to Inner Sphere- both with way, way more firepower and probably more armor.

On Clan light has 2 Gauss Rifle equal PPCs. That is right, a Gausspault, with infinite ammo, much faster, with no charge time. IMO---OP.

Then there is the Kit Fox. LB-5X. ER Large Laser that does more30% damage at longer range for less weight and crit space. Thenb Streak SRM-4. A "Small Pulse Laser" with the damage almost of a medium laser.

These are dead on arrival cause they go 10 kph slower? I doubt it. As an Atlas pilot, a back hit from any of these could any my career in one alpha. No wonder PGI had to mix Clan and IS mechs.

[KuroNyra]

.... Wat?



Light mech doesn't necesseraly mean scouting and/or avoid combat.

Some light clan mech were designed to be able to fight just like the big one's.
The light clan mech will give a new kind of gameplay for the "panzyboy" (thank you Duncan Fisher!)

[Evengar Dragonis]

PaintedWolf, on 05 April 2014 - 12:40 AM, said:

Then there is the Kit Fox. LB-5X. ER Large Laser that does more30% damage at longer range for less weight and crit space.

Developers are going to nerf the distance and duration of the beam...

[KuroNyra]

More info about the clan tech here.
http://mwomercs.com/...gn-perspective/

[GalaxyBluestar]

basically as far as it's known OP the clans are getting as per TT hardwired equipment or fixed gear. it's been confirmed for sure the type of engine is fixed. xl's for everybody, but the rating? that's not confirmed so it's assumed fairly well that you won't be able to change the stock rating. stock IS lights do go 10kph more but most people swap that engine out for a bigger higher rating and you see 150+ kph about. so far as we know clans can't do that {to avoid 100kph+ heavies and 60-70kph+ assaults with 50% more guns on them than the IS. for the sake of balance} that leaves clan lights fighting at 50+ slower than the IS mechs.

so slow sniper lrmer spammer or DOA is the current verdict. really who knows what will happen.

[B0oN]

Well ... all Clan mechs will be dead a few times after arrival due to the "all-maxed" forces arrayed versus them until the Clanmachines have been properly leveled.

Other than that everything you read about "DOA-ClanMechs" is hearsay, which we all know does count for ... exactly !
NOTHING .

First use them yourself, THEN state your verdict .
Idle speculation is wasted energy you/everyone could invest into something more useful, such as having a ****/preparing a superior dinner for loved ones/have a gummibear eating festival with friends/troll neighbours by glueing their door bells in "perma-active" positions .

Commence, ye idle speculators, ye

[wanderer]

If Clantech was actually allowed to be Clantech, you'd be right.

However, the Clan gear is being stripped down to be almost identical to IS weaponry in terms of power...and remember, that includes having to compensate for lower weapon weights.

It's gonna be ugly.

[Fang01]

The argument has little to do with speed or weaponry and a LOT to do with geometry. As previously stated, the majority of the inbound clan stuff has no jets, protruding forward CTs, enormous STs, and weapons mounted at belt level. You have dmg and rng advantages yes, but you will be much hotter and have Dragon level survivability

[Kmieciu]

wanderer, on 08 April 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

If Clantech was actually allowed to be Clantech, you'd be right.

However, the Clan gear is being stripped down to be almost identical to IS weaponry in terms of power...and remember, that includes having to compensate for lower weapon weights.

It's gonna be ugly.

I bet we'll be seeing a lot of overheated clan mechs.

Edited by Kmieciu, 08 April 2014 - 05:16 AM.

[Tastian]

Khajja nar Jatargk, on 08 April 2014 - 04:59 AM, said:

The argument has little to do with speed or weaponry and a LOT to do with geometry. As previously stated, the majority of the inbound clan stuff has no jets, protruding forward CTs, enormous STs, and weapons mounted at belt level. You have dmg and rng advantages yes, but you will be much hotter and have Dragon level survivability

I hadn't thought about this. You are correct. Most do. In fact, only the summoner has the flat chest that most IS mechs have. Depending on how PGI creates the hitboxes, the clan mechs are going to get CT cored pretty easily.

Or maybe they'll play more like the Stalker. Just make sure to face straight at enemies and twist only slightly to spread damage. I guess this will make for easier aiming.

[DONTOR]

PaintedWolf, on 05 April 2014 - 12:40 AM, said:

These are dead on arrival cause they go 10 kph slower? I doubt it. As an Atlas pilot, a back hit from any of these could any my career in one alpha. No wonder PGI had to mix Clan and IS mechs.

They will be more like 50-70KPH slower.. not 10KPH. Yes they will both have great alpha potential, and good weaponry. This is going to make them sit back and shoot the enemy rather than scout or capture objectives as ights are supposed to do. If a 100 KPH light tries to capture objectives in todays game it is obliterated by fast lights and mediums alike.

And your Atlas will be fine from an alpha from one of these, just dont let it get in multiple.

[FupDup]

Both of the Clan lights are going to be objectively inferior to the Stormcrow, because the SC has identical speed, more armor, and more pod space. Using either Clan light is literally gimping yourself, and any competent Jenner/Firestarter pilot will annihilate you because their lights are actually built the way lights are supposed to be built.

The light class has literally only 1 advantage over the other classes: speed. That is all. Trying to build one that is slow and boating guns is pure lunacy. You should be driving a medium in that case, not a light. It's sort of like the opposite of assault pilots who try to shoehorn in an XL400, when they should just be in a damn heavy or even a medium instead of sacrificing their firepower for a tiny bit of speed.

Edited by FupDup, 08 April 2014 - 07:35 AM.

[Gyrok]

FupDup, on 08 April 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

Both of the Clan lights are going to be objectively inferior to the Stormcrow, because the SC has identical speed, more armor, and more pod space. Using either Clan light is literally gimping yourself, and any competent Jenner/Firestarter pilot will annihilate you because their lights are actually built the way lights are supposed to be built.

The light class has literally only 1 advantage over the other classes: speed. That is all. Trying to build one that is slow and boating guns is pure lunacy. You should be driving a medium in that case, not a light. It's sort of like the opposite of assault pilots who try to shoehorn in an XL400, when they should just be in a damn heavy or even a medium instead of sacrificing their firepower for a tiny bit of speed.

A Battlemaster with an XL400 goes 84 kph...84!!! It can also hold 4 MLs, 1 LBX and 1 ERPPC/PPC/LPL. With the stock 340 I had the same loadout and same heat efficiency...I was just 13 kph slower.

As for clan lights...the lights that are included in this package are less recon and more harasser mechs. They were designed to go against IS mediums and be faster than those while packing similar loadouts.

The lights you speak of would be like the Fire Moth and others. Additionally, there are clan mediums like the 45T Ice Ferret which pack medium mech loadouts while going 130 kph.

The Adder and Kit Fox are iconic lights, however, and I suspect that the adder will fill the role many lights are right now as sniper/harasser mechs very well. The Kit Fox will also be a great light/medium deterrent in a support role for Assaults. THESE are the roles that lights originally fielded when not doing their REAL job, which is to engage infantry/armor and have a tactical advantage.

Currently lights are FAR too overpowered. In the REAL BT universe, a Jenner would never dream of taking on an assault mech unless he had a death wish. In this farcical world, that occurrence is a daily reality. Oh how far has the IP fallen that a locust no longer trembles in fear when an Atlas is called out in a grid coordinate?! An Atlas should be able to pick up and CRUSH any of the lights in this game...but that ship sailed a LONG time ago.

So as for your "lights are only fast" BS...no...they are not...and PGI broke that portion of this game, because if the way the mechs were originally intended to be played was still in force, clan lights would not even be questioned as superior because they would be in their proper place. One of but many things PGI has managed to bork while making this game.

/rant

@OP: No clan mechs will not be DOA...neither was the Victor...which was heralded as DOA for the hard points on the mech.

Edited by Gyrok, 08 April 2014 - 07:58 AM.

[Bront]

Marack Drock, on 08 April 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

EVERYTHING NEEDS TO STAY CLOSE TO CANON AS POSSIBLE! NO FAKE BALANCING!

EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE IN CAPS! NO MORE LOWER CASE!!!!!!111!1!

Seriously, TT balances differently than a real time FPS game. The sooner PGI is willing to admit that and break with a few other BT staples, the better the game will be. The Clan Balancing is a good step in the right direction, but that's assuming it's done well.

[KuroNyra]

Marack Drock, on 08 April 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

EVERYTHING NEEDS TO STAY CLOSE TO CANON AS POSSIBLE! NO FAKE BALANCING!

Bront, on 08 April 2014 - 07:57 AM, said:

EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE IN CAPS! NO MORE LOWER CASE!!!!!!111!1!

Seriously, TT balances differently than a real time FPS game. The sooner PGI is willing to admit that and break with a few other BT staples, the better the game will be. The Clan Balancing is a good step in the right direction, but that's assuming it's done well.

^^
this

[GrinNfool]

Eh I am expecting clans to feel slightly UP shortly after their release. Initially people will think they are ok, and then over the first month or 2 that will shift to them feeling UP. The reason is forcing static items onto an "omni mech" like the engine, and they said they have toyed with total armor. While simultaneously double nerfing clans through nerfing their weapons pretty hard. The end result I think will be a somewhat gimpy mech in most cases. My guess is after 3 months of them being out you will see some clan buffs. Only clan mech I see being fine on arrival is the stormcrow, and possibly the dire wolf (daishi) though I am not thrilled with being forced into an XL with an assault mech.

[Khobai]

Its simple really:

1) omnimechs SHOULD be allowed to change engine rating (i.e. change from a 280XL to a 300XL)
2) omnimechs SHOULD NOT be allowed to change engine type (i.e. cant change from XL to STD or vice versa)

[Fang01]

Gyrok, on 08 April 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

A Battlemaster with an XL400 goes 84 kph...84!!! It can also hold 4 MLs, 1 LBX and 1 ERPPC/PPC/LPL. With the stock 340 I had the same loadout and same heat efficiency...I was just 13 kph slower.

As for clan lights...the lights that are included in this package are less recon and more harasser mechs. They were designed to go against IS mediums and be faster than those while packing similar loadouts.

The lights you speak of would be like the Fire Moth and others. Additionally, there are clan mediums like the 45T Ice Ferret which pack medium mech loadouts while going 130 kph.

The Adder and Kit Fox are iconic lights, however, and I suspect that the adder will fill the role many lights are right now as sniper/harasser mechs very well. The Kit Fox will also be a great light/medium deterrent in a support role for Assaults. THESE are the roles that lights originally fielded when not doing their REAL job, which is to engage infantry/armor and have a tactical advantage.

Currently lights are FAR too overpowered. In the REAL BT universe, a Jenner would never dream of taking on an assault mech unless he had a death wish. In this farcical world, that occurrence is a daily reality. Oh how far has the IP fallen that a locust no longer trembles in fear when an Atlas is called out in a grid coordinate?! An Atlas should be able to pick up and CRUSH any of the lights in this game...but that ship sailed a LONG time ago.

So as for your "lights are only fast" BS...no...they are not...and PGI broke that portion of this game, because if the way the mechs were originally intended to be played was still in force, clan lights would not even be questioned as superior because they would be in their proper place. One of but many things PGI has managed to bork while making this game.

/rant

@OP: No clan mechs will not be DOA...neither was the Victor...which was heralded as DOA for the hard points on the mech.

Gee maybe thats because aimed fire doesnt require a complete stop and a die roll? That we can pinpoint target specific components whilst moving full speed? Stop trying to apply turn based board game mechanics to a real time sim.

Lights arent broken, your perceptions of them are

And dear god sir, just look at the Ryoken. Either the CT is going to be L shaped and engageable from anywhere or the STs will meet above the cockpit and be the natural aiming point. I don't even want to imagine what massed LRM fire will do to these things

Edited by Khajja nar Jatargk, 08 April 2014 - 09:11 AM.

[FupDup]

Gyrok, on 08 April 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

A Battlemaster with an XL400 goes 84 kph...84!!! It can also hold 4 MLs, 1 LBX and 1 ERPPC/PPC/LPL. With the stock 340 I had the same loadout and same heat efficiency...I was just 13 kph slower.

Reduce the engine size and you can upgrade that LBX to an AC/10, which is flat-out superior because it doesn't spread damage. Or you can even go with 2 AC/5, which has the same advantage as an AC/10 plus a lot more range and a faster rate of fire. And you can probably pack in some more DHS.

Gyrok, on 08 April 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

As for clan lights...the lights that are included in this package are less recon and more harasser mechs. They were designed to go against IS mediums and be faster than those while packing similar loadouts.

My Shadow Hawk will probably be able to take on two Kit Foxes simultaneously and kill at least one of them. They are too slow to evade my shots, and too lightly armored to take many hits.

Gyrok, on 08 April 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

The Adder and Kit Fox are iconic lights, however, and I suspect that the adder will fill the role many lights are right now as sniper/harasser mechs very well. The Kit Fox will also be a great light/medium deterrent in a support role for Assaults. THESE are the roles that lights originally fielded when not doing their REAL job, which is to engage infantry/armor and have a tactical advantage.

A role which the Stormcrow will be objectively superior at. The Stormcrow moves at EQUAL speed as the Kit Fox and Adder, has a lot more armor, and quite a bit more pod space. Using either Clan light in place of a Stormcrow is lunacy.

Gyrok, on 08 April 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

So as for your "lights are only fast" BS...no...they are not...and PGI broke that portion of this game, because if the way the mechs were originally intended to be played was still in force, clan lights would not even be questioned as superior because they would be in their proper place. One of but many things PGI has managed to bork while making this game.

Slow lights are poorly designed lights. It's that simple. Yes, you technically can build a light to be slow, but it's a bad idea to do so. You should play to your weight class's STRENGTHS. The light class has the strength of speed, and weaknesses of armor and firepower. If you don't take advantage of your one and only positive attribute as a light mech, you are literally better off playing a medium. It's basically the polar opposite of an over-engined assault mech like the Charger.

Gyrok, on 08 April 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

@OP: No clan mechs will not be DOA...neither was the Victor...which was heralded as DOA for the hard points on the mech.

The Victor was heralded as gamebreaking at first because a lot of people were expecting a variant with a ballistic hardpoint in each side torso (moved up from the legs because MWO can't handle leg weapons). People were expecting it to carry 2 PPCs + 2 Gauss.

Edited by FupDup, 08 April 2014 - 09:18 AM.

[Gyrok]

I am happy with the LBX build...I use the other weapons that do 30 damage to strip armor and the LBX to crit internals...it suits my needs just fine, and in the battlemaster, I will keep the speed and better torso twist rate.

Your shadow hawk would be eaten alive by 2 Kit Foxes packing 2xSSRM6s with nothing else on them...*yawn*

Storm Crow is a good mech, not disputing that...but why use something like that for a non-skirmisher build when it would be far better at it, and the lights are perfectly suited for ranged hit and run tactcs. These lights are not meant to be anti-light, they are, in fact, for hunting bigger mechs in packs and using speed to their advantage. Which they are perfectly well suited for...

*The issue is the Strength of the light chassis in this game is exaggerated to the point that they are absurd and unbalanced...but guess what...all the PGI guys play light chassis, what should you expect? Why do you think it took so long to "fix" the broken hit boxes on the spider? Because they were lazy? (possibly) Because they played it while it was OP too? (likely)

When they announced there would NOT be ballistic ST hard points it was quickly heralded as DOA. Lest you forget...

*I pilot lights, by the way, I am not some disgruntled Atlas pilot. I play heavies and mediums and assaults too, but I own quite a few lights...

Edited by Gyrok, 08 April 2014 - 09:21 AM.