136 replies to this topic

[Strum Wealh]

CyclonerM, on 16 April 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

Yes, the 'Mech clearly bends it's knees when it runs.

The current argument seems to be two fold.

1.) A number of people are kvetching about the fact that the inside angle of the legs while the 'Mech is standing still is greater than or equal to 90 degrees, despite the point that several other RJ-legged 'Mechs also have their legs having inside angles greater than or equal to 90 degrees.











As such, the "Mad Cat stands too upright" crowd is simply wrong.

2.) As noted in the thread title, some people apparently took issue with the perspective of the original image, which gave the appearance of the Mad Cat having disproportionately large legs.



However, the Mad Cat is only 5 tons heavier than the Cataphract (and is ~25% heavier than a modern MBT) while also being 25% faster than said Cataphract (base top speed of 81 kph for the Mad Cat, vs 64.8 kph for the (stock) CTF-3D); it's not going to have the "Raven legs with cankles" design that some are apparently hoping for, because (probably, among other things) it simply doesn't make sense from the standpoint of the aesthetic considerations established for the MWO world.
Beside: the later pictures, with better perspective, show that the legs are not actually so disproportionate as the original picture seemed to indicate.

[CyclonerM]

Strum Wealh, on 16 April 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

However, the Mad Cat is only 5 tons heavier than the Cataphract (and is ~25% heavier than a modern MBT) while also being 25% faster than said Cataphract (base top speed of 81 kph for the Mad Cat, vs 64.8 kph for the (stock) CTF-3D); it's not going to have the "Raven legs with cankles" design that some are apparently hoping for, because (probably, among other things) it simply doesn't make sense from the standpoint of the aesthetic considerations established for the MWO world.
Beside: the later pictures, with better perspective, show that the legs are not actually so disproportionate as the original picture seemed to indicate.

Aside from the fact that the engine makes the speed, not the legs (though a higher speed must be tolerated by them) they would be much better if Alex had kept the classic legs. He said they would have given it an odd gait but i really doubt it would have been a bad thing..

Probably it is the "fanboy" 's problem, but i always feel that they manage to disappoint me a bit even when they do a good thing..

[Mordin Ashe]

Really great Mech, and the legs won't be a problem for me.
I will still try out Dire Wolf first though.

[_Comrade_]

In some ways it's good that PGI creates their own designs to get away from the "Flash Gordon 1990's retro sci fi" look

I mean just look at the Kintaro on Sarna, with it's pimp walk it looks like it's going to the club not a battle!!

[Sky Ferrix]

Tetryon88, on 11 April 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

All they need to do is shrink the upper half of the legs and it'd be fine. I can deal with the thicker arms no problem. Just reduce the thickness of the upper half of those thunder thighs and it'd look pretty much perfect.

I second this. I'm a huge fan of the classic version as well, but I gotta admit, they could've done waaaaay worse.

[pbiggz]

I don't believe it needs changes, it fits in with the art style of this game and IMO its one of the best renditions i've ever seen, and iv seen some awesome renditions. Of course just like in politics, there are ultra conservatives and they like to ruin everything. If you wanted pipe cleaner arms, you should have known this would disappoint you.

[CCC Dober]

It is baffling how the Timberwolf got chunky legs and arms in the first place. The whole idea of Clan Mechs as I understand it, was that they were technologically advanced, looked and behaved a whole lot different. The Timberwolf is iconic because it represents all that.

Fine, the legs and arms are pretty thin in the original TROs, that's something that can be beefed up a bit. But what we are seeing here is the application of IS Mech proportions to Clan Omni Mechs. Not even the joints that make it special are there. You have to understand, if you don't know already, that IS tech and constructions are mostly antiquated compared to Clan Mechs at this stage and it shows in all aspects, even proportions. We are dealing with an Omni Mech here, a slim one, not a second-liner.

So please, even if you like chunky arms and legs, the Timberwolf is not the Mech to project your desires on. Try a Kodiak or Stone Rhino when they become available, I'm pretty sure you will fall in love with them instantly. Please don't spoil it for the Timberwolf fans, who like them sexy. PGI really needs to know where this design needs more polish to make those people happy that actually want to play this Mech. Thanks in advance.

[pbiggz]

CCC Dober, on 26 April 2014 - 11:37 AM, said:

It is baffling how the Timberwolf got chunky legs and arms in the first place. The whole idea of Clan Mechs as I understand it, was that they were technologically advanced, looked and behaved a whole lot different. The Timberwolf is iconic because it represents all that.

Fine, the legs and arms are pretty thin in the original TROs, that's something that can be beefed up a bit. But what we are seeing here is the application of IS Mech proportions to Clan Omni Mechs. Not even the joints that make it special are there. You have to understand, if you don't know already, that IS tech and constructions are mostly antiquated compared to Clan Mechs at this stage and it shows in all aspects, even proportions. We are dealing with an Omni Mech here, a slim one, not a second-liner.

So please, even if you like chunky arms and legs, the Timberwolf is not the Mech to project your desires on. Try a Kodiak or Stone Rhino when they become available, I'm pretty sure you will fall in love with them instantly. Please don't spoil it for the Timberwolf fans, who like them sexy. PGI really needs to know where this design needs more polish to make those people happy that actually want to play this Mech. Thanks in advance.

I will remind the nominee that the pipecleaner arms and curvy balloon legs are the result of clan mechs being mostly 1980s robots. I love the CBT clan line art, but im not going to demand that the MWO designs look identical, I think they captured the timberwolf's essence in a very new way and that is good.

[CCC Dober]

pbiggz, on 26 April 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

I will remind the nominee that the pipecleaner arms and curvy balloon legs are the result of clan mechs being mostly 1980s robots. I love the CBT clan line art, but im not going to demand that the MWO designs look identical, I think they captured the timberwolf's essence in a very new way and that is good.

Let's keep in mind that the Marauder had 'pipe' arms as well (which shares design principles with the Timberwolf) and that did nothing to stop it from being acceptable either. Or at least I never heard people bash it for that like the Timberwolf. People have seen Timberwolfs before and those were never 'chunky' as far as I can tell. PGI went off the beaten path here, but not for the better.

[Daneiel]

As i look at the Timber Wolf more and more start look to me as gather parts from IS mechs . The legs are like taken from the Catapult , the arms looks suspiciously close to the right arm of the Cataphract .Someone was very lazy in his work and just copy paste already existing parts of other mechs and even didn't manage to manage to make the attempt to make the proportions of the legs properly .

Edited by Daneiel, 26 April 2014 - 02:18 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Daneiel, on 26 April 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

As i look at the Timber Wolf more and more start look to me as gather parts from IS mechs . The legs are like taken from the Catapult , the arms looks suspiciously close to the right arm of the Cataphract .Someone was very lazy in his work and just copy paste already existing parts of other mechs and even didn't manage to manage to make the attempt to make the proportions of the legs properly .

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!. yea, that is what i first thought. I still do think they just recycled the parts.

[Strum Wealh]

BLOOD WOLF, on 26 April 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!. yea, that is what i first thought. I still do think they just recycled the parts.

Recall that the Mad Cat is supposed to look enough like a "b*****d child of a Marauder and a Catapult" FrankenMech to fool the targeting system of Phelan Kell's Wolfhound.

Recall, also, that the Cataphract is an actual FrankenMech made of parts from the Marauder (specifically, the legs & the Right Arm), Phoenix Hawk, and Shadow Hawk.

Yeah, the legs and arms of the MWO Mad Cat heavily resemble those of the MWO Cataphract (to the point where they probably were recycled from the latter for the former - which, in the case of the legs, is a point I had made previously )... which arguably should be the case, as both of them are essentially Marauder knock-offs anyway.

[CyclonerM]

pbiggz, on 26 April 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

I will remind the nominee that the pipecleaner arms and curvy balloon legs are the result of clan mechs being mostly 1980s robots. I love the CBT clan line art, but im not going to demand that the MWO designs look identical, I think they captured the timberwolf's essence in a very new way and that is good.

Glad for you, i and quite a few others in my unit have not found back the Timberwolf's feeling we had with the previous renders..

[Daneiel]

Strum Wealh, on 26 April 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

Recall that the Mad Cat is supposed to look enough like a "b*****d child of a Marauder and a Catapult" FrankenMech to fool the targeting system of Phelan Kell's Wolfhound.

Recall, also, that the Cataphract is an actual FrankenMech made of parts from the Marauder (specifically, the legs & the Right Arm), Phoenix Hawk, and Shadow Hawk.

Yeah, the legs and arms of the MWO Mad Cat heavily resemble those of the MWO Cataphract (to the point where they probably were recycled from the latter for the former - which, in the case of the legs, is a point I had made previously )... which arguably should be the case, as both of them are essentially Marauder knock-offs anyway.

The key word here is LIKE , but not exactly , it has familiar look to them but its completely new design made by the Wolf clan , so the lazy work remain lazy work .

[DjPush]

Stop living in the 80's and deal with the new design. I like it. Go PGI!!

[FireSlade]

CyclonerM, on 26 April 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

Glad for you, i and quite a few others in my unit have not found back the Timberwolf's feeling we had with the previous renders..

I wish that they used the concept art to size their renders accordingly. PGI has a bad habit of reusing objects and then sizing them wrong to match the new mech; which looks like they did with the Catapult/Cataphract to make the Timber Wolf taller but blow it out of proportion.

[GalaxyBluestar]

DjPush, on 26 April 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

Stop living in the 80's and deal with the new design. I like it. Go PGI!!

you better shout that loud and clear to many entertainment studios and producers cause all i've seen making it big is milk the 80-90's goodness. TMNT, Ateam, transformers, startcitzen {wingcommander} dragon ball, evangelion the list of rehash goes on. and you wouldn't be playing this game if it wasn't for that success which is being relived and cashed in today. 2010-2020 the decade where nothings new we just had a replay. simply the 80's rule again!

meanwhile...

[CyclonerM]

DjPush, on 26 April 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

Stop living in the 80's and deal with the new design. I like it. Go PGI!!

Does this look coming from the 80's, quineg?


I was not even born in the 80's but i would choose this design every time over the MWO one

I mean, it is not bad but from Alex i expected something more.. Iconic.

Edited by CyclonerM, 27 April 2014 - 01:26 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

CyclonerM, on 27 April 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

MWO one

I mean, it is not bad but from Alex i expected something more.. Iconic.

And that is where you fail. When you have an iconic image in your head, unless it is exactly like the image it will never live up to it. The very act of translating the mech into a game destroys any chance of it being the iconic mech you propped up in your mind's eye. Reality is he needed to change it. Not just for MWO's particular art style, but because a carbon copy of someone else's work is no bueno.

Could the legs be altered a little? Sure. Will it happen? No. We are less than 2 months from clan launch with 8 Clan mechs plus 8 unique clan geometry designs to make. Resizing the legs, or the arms, or the cockpit, or whatever means stopping everything, redoing the legs of the model work, making another model that is not seen to be used to populate the new model for hit detection, running it through whoever does the animation of the mech, and running who knows how many quality assurance checks to check for bugs or unintended issues with the implementation of the mech design.

Simply put, it will not happen, and it should not. It is simply too much to ask for. It is not like changing a simple XML value. This is a lot of (leg)work just to change a model, regardless of how small a change is made visually.

Edit: In the future it might be nice if they went back and did a pass, but right now there is a crunch, and more mechs need doing before they should waste resources on altering the current model.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 27 April 2014 - 01:44 PM.

[Dredhawk]

I have found in this World people ***** about everything...It's impossible to please everyone why bother trying I don't....