26 replies to this topic

[Chain Fire]

Long story short, maybe.

I have a stock HP p7-1240:

Win 7
A10-5700 cpu
ms-7778 jasmine v 1.0 motherboard
10 gigs of ram
300 watt ps

So along comes the GTX 750, no external power needed
only 55 watts and definitely a step up from the integrated gpu.
An ASUS fan I work with recommended ASUS so I ordered their 750.

Board arrived, I pop it in, boot it up, splash screen comes up and...
beeeeep.....nothin, no hard drive spin up just sits on the splash
screen, won't even let me into the bios at this point. Oh well....

Pull the card, fire the pc back up, works fine, wtf! Go online, toms hardware,
HP support, general interweb tech forums blah blah!

Options?
Power supply
Bios settings
Bios update
Dead board
Drivers

Ok, so I tweak the bios, load the card, no change (I did this multiple times)
Got me a new Corsair 500 watt ps, no change.
No bios update available.
My ASUS fan co-worker tried the card in his system and the card ran fine (dammit!!!)
I did not wipe my old drivers since I never even got into windows while the card was
in. I did assume the card would function in a limited way regardless of the driver.

Well at this point I have returned the Video card, but I thought I would throw this
out there as an exercise and maybe someone can tell me what I missed.....

I did only try the vga connection, but I was getting the splash screen so something
was working.

I wondered if the board was actually supplying enough power to the card, but had no
way to check that.

And I would have upgraded the motherboard but I got the impression Microsoft frowns
on that, and I didn't feel like buying a motherboard and a new OS license.

So any Ideas would be appreciated in case I decide to try another card.

[Odins Fist]

CPU is 3.4 ghz.. 4.0 ghz if turbo.

The GTX 750 or 750 ti

From what I know, an APU (your A-10 5700) should run fine with Video Card.
By default it should use the video Card and partially disable the on chip Video.

Also when you install a Video Card, you have to plug into the outputs on the video card itself, and NOT the video output form the motherboard (where you plugged in your monitor before the video card was bought)

Odins Fist, on 09 April 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

I don't want to sound mean, please don't take this as such...

I looked at the 750 ti, and I wouldn't recommend that GPU to anyone thinking of building a gaming rig, and I really wouldn't recommend it to anyone playing MWO.

It's a 60 watt card because it's powered by the motherboard, cannot be put into SLI.
Put simply it's a $160.00 budget video card that will perform like a $160.00 video card.

It also only has a 128 bit memory interface, and I can't stress enough just how bad that is.

I would recommend it for someone that does light gaming, or as a replacement for someone's onboard video that failed, I would even recommend it for someone building a HTPC (Home Theatre PC) since it has HDMI out, but that is it.

http://www.hwcompare...rce-gtx-750-ti/ <---- Click that and read

Looking at everything considering Memory Bandwith, Pixel Rate- Anti Aliasing, my old GTX 560 ti even passes the 750 ti by in more then one or two areas.

I'm not saying buy a GTX 560 ti, I'm saying do NOT buy a 750 ti, it's at best an HTPC card, it's a gamer with no legs for gaming.

Anyone that buys a 750 ti expecting an upgrade will be very unhappy with the results, unless they are coming from a 9800GTX+ or something like that.

To actually see someone's money well spent on an upgrade, I wouldn't recommend anything under a GTX 770 4gb card, especially if they want to SLI in the future and or run multiple monitors.

Two 770 4gb running 3 monitors would be nice, that's where the 4 gb of Vram comes in.
Trying to run multiple monitors on a 750 ti would be ok if you were running 2 for accounting software, or music production, that's about it.

Avoid the 650 ti, the 750 ti, and anything else with 128 bit interface when looking at a so called budget card.

If you have the cash and the PSU to run it, a GTX 770 4gb edition would do great, or even this 2gb version.
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814130921

Or the GTX 760, with a 500 watt PSU you should be able to handle it, depending on your system power requirements.

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814130932

Edited by Odins Fist, 11 April 2014 - 12:18 PM.

[Goose]

What was the monitor plugged into: Card or MoBo?

With the card out, can you check the BIOS for something along the lines of "Primary Video [PCIE16-1]"?

[Chain Fire]

Video was connected properly, I guarantee it.

The apu was designed to allow crossfire with a similar
amd gpu/card, but I have read that HP disabled this feature.

And according to HP the on chip video "automatically" disables
when you add in a video card. And I did try both vga outputs
when the card was plugged in and the only thing with any output
was the GTX 750, yet all I got was the splash screen.

I went over every option in the bios, tried everything HP recommended
and everything on the surface looked like it should work.
There were options to enable/disable individual slots among other things,
and everything was already enabled. I looked over the bios settings repeatedly
and didn't see anything that looked like it would have an effect on the video
card. I may have missed something but it is hard to know for sure.
And there was no update for the bios.

One odd thing is HP still uses the ms-7778 jasmine board only it is now a jasmine R
Conspiracies aside I wish I could determine if it was the board or not, I don't want to
waste any time and aggravation with another card. I would probably try a 660 ti next
since I got that Corsair ps. The 760 isn't out of the question but it is more expensive.

On a somewhat pertinent side note there's a website pc-specs that lists the GTX 750 as
compatible with my motherboard. Pegatron MSI MS-7778 (Jasmine). But it does not list the
motherboard as being compatible with the GTX 750. Weird!
http://www.pc-specs....S-7778_(Jasmine)/1381

(Link isn't working properly, but that is the site.)

I know the website could be wrong or not up to date, but I seem to be grasping at straws anyway.

Edited by Chain Fire, 11 April 2014 - 02:18 PM.

[StainlessSR]

After searching around here are some suggestions

1. See if the card works in your friends computer
2. See if his card will work in yours

After looking on the web I have found this thread that most closely resembles your problem.
He was able to get a card from a different manufacturer to work where the original would not (although the original would work in his friends comp).

So it seems that some card brands are not compatible with the hp motherboard


Edit: for clarity

Edited by StainlessSR, 11 April 2014 - 04:21 PM.

[Odins Fist]

I have never seen a motherboard be incompatible with a Video Card that is designed for a PCI-e slot.
I have run PCI-e 2.0 cards in a Pci-e 1.0 slot, and a PCI-e 3.0 in a Pci-e 2.0 slot with zero issues.

Has he tried another Video Card besides the GTX 750 in the slot..?? The GTX 750 is a 60 watt card that is powered by the Pci-e slot, could that have an effect.?? Is the slot defective..??

Time to start swapping out Known good into that Mobo to see... And by that I mean a different Video card, one that isn't powered by the Mobo, perhaps his friend would loan him a card..??

Or perhaps it was a simple Video setting..?? He did say he saw a splash screen correct and got into Bios..??
What size is the monitor..?? Is there an issue with resolution..?? I did see that a long time ago when switching out monitors on a Win Xp rig, and it wasn't a common resolution. That was an easy fix though.

Please let us know what you find so that it may help someone else in the future.

EDIT: I have a friend with a ATI 6990 that had a real similar issue, he completely unistalled his drivers for his video card, and then reinstalled the card and drivers after using his 6850 he had, and bingo.
Maybe it's that simple, I can't say ATM.

Edited by Odins Fist, 11 April 2014 - 03:15 PM.

[StainlessSR]

Odins Fist, on 11 April 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

I have never seen a motherboard be incompatible with a Video Card that is designed for a PCI-e slot.
****snip*****

This usually happens when newer hardware meets older hardware. Having been into computers when the old Dx4-100 Intel was the smoking hot cpu, I have seen this over and over. Hp uses custom designed MB, with no bios update to keep it updated to newer hardware it may not be compatible with the bios the card manufacturer used on the video card.

[Chain Fire]

I had one of those dx4-100's back in the day!

I agree at this point, there's just an incompatibility.
I just wanted to throw this situation out in case someone
else runs across it.

The more I search the net the more these types of issues
seem to be popping up and in a lot of cases there is no
resolution to the problem.

Like I said I returned the GTX 750 already, but still have
the new power supply, so I'll try again with another card
at a later date. I'll remember to cross my fingers this time.

Thanks for the help.

[Odins Fist]

StainlessSR, on 11 April 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

This usually happens when newer hardware meets older hardware. Having been into computers when the old Dx4-100 Intel was the smoking hot cpu, I have seen this over and over. Hp uses custom designed MB, with no bios update to keep it updated to newer hardware it may not be compatible with the bios the card manufacturer used on the video card.

http://www.pc-specs...._(Jasmine)/1982 <---- READ THIS ...!!!!! your Mobo

Master link http://www.pc-specs....le_Motherboards

Everything says it should have been able to run this card.
Only issue mentioned is that it wouldn't be able to fully use the graphics cards potential, and we ar only talking about 3% difference from 2.0 and 3.0 with that gtx 750 ti.


Well he isn't running Dx4... I haven't seen a Pci-e 3.0 Video card have issue with Pci-e 2.0 mobos yet, and I haven't seen an issue with a Pci-e 2.0 card run on a Pci-e 1.0 mobo either.
I have to tell you, most newer components (video cards) have few issues running on the direct previous standard, or the direct previous DirectX version either. ALSO, his hardware isn't old enough to warrant that kind of incompatibility with that card, not even close.

A Pci-e slot on a AMD APU Mobo should have zero issues with that card (unless it can't deliver enough power through the Pci-e slot to run the card since it is powered by the mobo), bios update you say, maybe, and if he was putting a new CPU that wasn't out when the mobo was shipped I can see, but a video card, highly unlikely.
I would put this down to a driver issue or something simple since the card works in another rig.

Has he tried a different card in that Pci-e slot..?? Is the slot bad..??
We don't know yet, i'm interested to see what the cause is.

Like I said my buddy with a ATI 6990 dual GPU card had a similar issue, it came down to uninstalling drivers, trying a new card, removing that, uninstalling those drivers and reinstalling the 6990 and it's drivers.. He thought his card was borked, but when he tried it out in another rig, bingo no issues..

http://www.tomshardw...adeon-7790.html
.
From Hp site-
"Either integrated graphics or the PCI Express x16 slot are usable at one time; they are not usable concurrently."
"Supports PCI Express x16 graphics cards."
http://h20565.www2.h...ette.cachetoken


.
Have you disabled onboard/chip graphics, there should be an Auto setting to detect a card in the expansion slot, if not you may have to disable it, or whatever new card you get.

If no card works with any config then you might have a dead PCi-e slot, or it couldn't deliver the 60 watts that were needed for that 750 you tried.

I'm betting the fix is real simple.

Edited by Odins Fist, 11 April 2014 - 06:58 PM.

[Barbaric Soul]

I have actually experienced something very similar to this when I purchased my GTX 780ti and installed it in my MSI Z68A GD80 (g3) board. I ended up having to do a BIOs update in order for the 780ti to work with my MSI board. The funny thing is my older Gigabyte P55 socket 1156 motherboard didn't have any issues with the 780ti. Here I my post about this on the MSI web site- https://forum-en.msi...?topic=175479.0

My issue ended up being that I needed ivy bridge based BIOS with ME8 to make the GTX 780ti work
in my MSI board

Edited by Barbaric Soul, 12 April 2014 - 02:56 AM.

[Matasata]

You have to disable the GPU on the AMD chip it wont work with a Nvidia GPU or at least it might be causing your problem. You defiantly cant crosfire two different brands together.

[Odins Fist]

Matasata, on 12 April 2014 - 04:17 AM, said:

You defiantly cant crosfire two different brands together.

That goes without saying...
Also I recommended he disable or check the Bios for Auto detect settings for something in the PCI-e slot.

Barbaric Soul, on 12 April 2014 - 02:53 AM, said:

I ended up having to do a BIOs update in order for the 780ti to work with my MSI board. The funny thing is my older

Please explain EXACTLY why you needed the BIOS update to run a video card...
Why you ask..?? I have NEVER ran into a Mobo that needed to run a BIOS update to run a Video Card, I have seen a need for a bios update for a newer series CPU that wasn't out when the Mobo was released, but NEVER a video card..

NEVERMIND... I read why...
MSI has had a lot of issues in the last 4 years.
I no longer recommend ANY MSI product, either AMD or INTEL mobos..
And absolutely NO ASRock AMD mobos, their Intel Mobos aren't so bad, but they just can't do the high end stuff worth a TUURRDDD, especially the high end AMD mobos, they overclock like a potato.

Edited by Odins Fist, 12 April 2014 - 07:58 PM.

[Smokeyjedi]

Odins Fist, on 12 April 2014 - 07:47 PM, said:

That goes without saying...
Also I recommended he disable or check the Bios for Auto detect settings for something in the PCI-e slot.



Please explain EXACTLY why you needed the BIOS update to run a video card...
Why you ask..?? I have NEVER ran into a Mobo that needed to run a BIOS update to run a Video Card, I have seen a need for a bios update for a newer series CPU that wasn't out when the Mobo was released, but NEVER a video card..

NEVERMIND... I read why...
MSI has had a lot of issues in the last 4 years.
I no longer recommend ANY MSI product, either AMD or INTEL mobos..
And absolutely NO ASRock AMD mobos, their Intel Mobos aren't so bad, but they just can't do the high end stuff worth a TUURRDDD, especially the high end AMD mobos, they overclock like a potato.

Ah the years and experience shine through with these wise, wise, words.

[Catamount]

My Asrock board (Z77 Extreme 4) is definitely somewhat quirky. I don't do the sort of extreme overclocks that would expose differences there (bumped my 3570k from 3.6 to 4.2 turbo at stock voltage, I'm happy with it), but on balance, I would definitely have spent the small extra difference for an Asus board had I thought about it more, and realized the issues more. I'd recommend an Asrock board in a second for an entry-level system on a budget, for a user without the knowledge for OCing or more than basic OCing, but that's about where I'd draw the line. They're definitely not performance boards.

Interestingly enough, my board actually could fail to POST correctly with a discrete GPU installed. It gave a SCSI error, of all things. Like I said, the board is quirky. That issue was also resolved with a BIOS update.


So yeah, this issue isn't out of the realm of possibilities. I've had strange behavior from MSI boards as well. My parents AM3 board, for instance, thinks the stock clock for the installed CPU is like 30% higher than it really is, which was crashing the machine until I manually underclocked it. I'll definitely never recommend an MSI board again until such issues get resolved, and they either build up a good track record again over a few years, or offer the kind of pricing that would warrant going for a board with fewer guarantees. MSI has unreliable products priced like reliable products with solid track records. That simply should not fly with motherboards (never had a problem with their GPUs, but other vendors are better).

Edited by Catamount, 13 April 2014 - 10:21 AM.

[Chain Fire]

The adventure continues.....

Purchased a EVGA GTX 760 yesterday 4/12.
I wanted a 660 but they were out and they dropped
the price to match Newegg on the 760.

Read the new card manual, disabled the onboard graphics,
uninstalled the old drivers, powered down and installed
the new card.

Fired it up and.....stuck on the post/splash screen. Oh well...
Pulled the card, poked around in the bios some more, re-inserted
the card, same result.

Pulled the card again, checked online again to see if anything new
pops up, check for a motherboard bios update (there isn't one btw),
come across a post by an HP expert that says you need to update the
bios on the video card? EVGA says you need to update the bios on
the motherboard?.?.?. Nice runaround they got there.

I came across another post on toms hardware where a guy claims HP
locks the bios on some pc's for warranty reasons. This seems plausible
to me, but I would bet HP just doesn't want to spend the resources to keep
their products up to date and future proof for the few people that would
go to the trouble of updating their systems.

Well the 760 is going back. I might try a 660 in a day or two if I still
feel like it.

And yes I made sure everything was seated properly. The only difference was
I did not get the long beep at post this time.

[Catamount]

OP, just hold on a minute. Look, if a 700 series card doens't work, a 600 series card isn't going to. The former is little more than a rebrand of the latter anyways insofar as the cards you're buying, with a minor tweak here or there that has no bearing on whether or not the computer will post and output basic video through the card.

To be frank, your motherboard sucks. If you want a new card, that's the problem you're going to have to address. You have an A10-5700, fine. Get a Socket FM2 board, stick the CPU in there, and put it into the case. For something basic and reliable, you shouldn't need to spend more than $50, maybe $60. You could even get something decent, like this, pair it with a cheap aftermarket cooler (Hyper 212?), do a bit of OCing, and make better use of the the new GPU's potential by not having a severe CPU bottleneck.

I assume your case is micro-ATX, or at least I hope so. I'm not really up on if HP might have proprietary mobo mounting, but somehow I doubt they do.

You've already spent the money on a new power supply, might as well replace the final part keeping you from upgrading. Call MS when you're done, they'll transfer the license without a hassle (at least they always have with me), and you'll be all set.

Edited by Catamount, 13 April 2014 - 10:34 AM.

[Odins Fist]

There is no reason stated by HP themselves or MSI why that Video Card shouldn't have worked, and any manufacturer saying that you will need a BIOS flash/Update to use a PCI-e expansion slot is a complete joke.

Are there any updated DRIVERS for your Motherboard from MSI's website..??

If all else fails, and NO card EVER works with that Mobo, then either it's complete trash, or the PCI-e slot may be borked.

BIOS flash needed for Video card to be used in a PCI-e expansion slot... That's just precious, you know since a PCI-e expansion slot is on a Mobo to run PCI-e expansion cards of all kinds. Too funny, this isn't 1998.

Edited by Odins Fist, 13 April 2014 - 11:03 AM.

[Chain Fire]

There were no "updated" drivers for my pc at the HP site
only the original drivers are available.

The reasoning on getting a 660 was that it being an older
card might allow it to work on my system. But I still don't
know that the slot isn't bad somehow.

According to what I've read putting a new non-oem motherboard
into an oem setup like I have violates the eula. And would require
a new windows license. And the whole point of getting the GTX 750
in the first place was to give my system some legs on the cheep.
Buying the power supply wasn't too big a deal, but if I need to buy
a new motherboard and a new windows license and a video card I will hold
off for now and build a new system this summer.

Your help is appreciated, but the more I look the more stories I find about
this particular HP being a real problem child. Maybe it's the board maybe
it's HP pretty sure it's not me (well hopefully).

[Evildude42]

Are you running the aux power to the card? The only time I've had similar was trying to run it under mobo power only. Low wattage will also get you. I now run a 950 watt PS, so I don't have such issues. Also the new cards are PCI 3. They might work on a pci 2 Mboard, but probably won't.

[Chain Fire]

Yeah, card required 6 & 8 pin aux connectors. Everything was definitely seated.
Gotta assume mobo slot is bad.