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Tag/narc Should Be Limited To Certain Mechs


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#1 Rex Budman

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 01:36 AM

Such as ECM, TAG and NARC should be limited to certain mechs.

One thing I'm seeing these days which is a new and popular build are fast light/medium mechs equipping LRM/Artemis + TAG/NARC.

Basically, they can create the minimum 180m range quickly, tag you for locks, run behind cover and JJ, lock and fire.

Needless to say this is annoying. But above being annoying and a challenge, I find it unbalanced.

This is like a beefed up version of the Streak SRM with increased range and accuracy. At least with streaks its an up close and personal fight, but with this style of LRM build, you can kite at very long ranges, with more than a decent amount of damage.

Or hey, why not let all Mechs or open up the range of mechs to allow ECM?

So, yeah... How about some limitations, Devs?

Edited by Rex Budman, 14 April 2014 - 01:38 AM.


#2 Thorqemada

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 01:44 AM

A TAG signature fades away pretty fast when breaking LOS and Artemis cancels NARC out if they did not change it so Artemis-LRM would not receive any NARC Bonus ever.

While NARC could give some Mechs a specific Role though TAG is such a mundane Piece of Equipment it should remain unrestricted.

#3 Rex Budman

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:05 AM

View PostThorqemada, on 14 April 2014 - 01:44 AM, said:

A TAG signature fades away pretty fast when breaking LOS and Artemis cancels NARC out if they did not change it so Artemis-LRM would not receive any NARC Bonus ever.

While NARC could give some Mechs a specific Role though TAG is such a mundane Piece of Equipment it should remain unrestricted.


It fades quicker though still active for a longer period of time. It really should be limited to only a few chassis.

The game is turning into a camp fest. The only scout lights that are worth a penny are lights that tag. Other than that most light mechs just hang back with everyone else behind their cover.

#4 Zerberoff

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:05 AM

Or, we could take all Mechs, remove 2,5t of the avaible tonnage, remove 3 free slots and fix-install AMS for everyone.

#5 Rex Budman

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:16 AM

View PostZerberoff, on 14 April 2014 - 02:05 AM, said:

Or, we could take all Mechs, remove 2,5t of the avaible tonnage, remove 3 free slots and fix-install AMS for everyone.


Well at the moment AMS is needed across the board but it does not really do much unless the entire team carries it. If the entire team carries it it will render LRM absolutely useless, then they call for an LRM buff or AMS nerf.

Fact is LRMs are problematic...

#6 El Bandito

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:18 AM

View PostRex Budman, on 14 April 2014 - 01:36 AM, said:

Such as ECM, TAG and NARC should be limited to certain mechs. One thing I'm seeing these days which is a new and popular build are fast light/medium mechs equipping LRM/Artemis + TAG/NARC. Basically, they can create the minimum 180m range quickly, tag you for locks, run behind cover and JJ, lock and fire. Needless to say this is annoying. But above being annoying and a challenge, I find it unbalanced. This is like a beefed up version of the Streak SRM with increased range and accuracy. At least with streaks its an up close and personal fight, but with this style of LRM build, you can kite at very long ranges, with more than a decent amount of damage. Or hey, why not let all Mechs or open up the range of mechs to allow ECM? So, yeah... How about some limitations, Devs?


Mediums becoming a threat is a good thing. All thanks to LRMs becoming something other than garbage.


View PostRex Budman, on 14 April 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

Well at the moment AMS is needed across the board but it does not really do much unless the entire team carries it. If the entire team carries it it will render LRM absolutely useless, then they call for an LRM buff or AMS nerf. Fact is LRMs are problematic...


If pilots don't bring AMS then its their problem, not LRMs. After all, all mechs except one, can field AMS.

This is a team game, as such one should have team mentality. If not, then PGI failed to make a team game.

Current LRMs are too "hit or miss" thanks to Paul's faulty implementation of ECM. Still, it beats "all miss" from pre-LRM speed buff.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 April 2014 - 02:23 AM.


#7 Rex Budman

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:22 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 14 April 2014 - 02:18 AM, said:


Mediums becoming a threat is a good thing. All thanks to LRMs becoming something other than garbage.




If pilots don't bring AMS then its their problem, not LRMs. After all, all mechs except one, can field AMS.

This is a team game, as such one should have team mentality. If not, then PGI failed to make a team game.


Yes but why should a mech have all this capability? It's silly. It does not even need LOS to be effective it only needs it momentarily.

AMS is one thing but not ALL mechs should have to carry it. If they do, then ALL mechs should be able to carry ECM.

#8 El Bandito

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:26 AM

View PostRex Budman, on 14 April 2014 - 02:22 AM, said:

Yes but why should a mech have all this capability? It's silly. It does not even need LOS to be effective it only needs it momentarily. AMS is one thing but not ALL mechs should have to carry it. If they do, then ALL mechs should be able to carry ECM.


I am tired of schooling LRM haters for months so I'll make it brief.

1. Current ECM will make LRM and SSRM (both canon BT weapons) completely useless, if all mechs can carry it. Are you dumb enough to suggest PGI to trash a whole weapon system for the sake of those who do not know the basic of MWO?

2. Without indirect fire, there is no reason EVER to bring LRMs. ACs and PPCs will do the LOS fire job much better. A competitive game should keep competitive level standards, and LRMs are almost never used in competitive level play.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 April 2014 - 02:29 AM.


#9 Thorqemada

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:29 AM

I took out AMS of my Hunchback bcs all it does is running dry while staying in good cover and surrender in the open to overwhelming odds - i had a good use for the 1.5 tons.

#10 Rex Budman

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:29 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 14 April 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:


I am tired of schooling LRM haters for months so I'll make it brief.

1. Current ECM will make LRM and SSRM (both canon BT weapons) completely useless, if all mechs can carry it. Are you dumb enough to suggest PGI to trash a whole weapon system for the sake of those who do not know the basic of MWO?

2. Without indirect fire, there is no reason EVER to bring LRMs. ACs and PPCs will do the LOS fire job much better.


It's your second point, because in a way I agree with your first; the thread is purely to limit Tag and Narc to certain mechs such as ECM is limited to certain mechs. The mediums carry it around, speed in, Tag you, LRM you and allow the rest of the team to spam you. Not only that, they use it as a brawling weapon with increased accuracy. They can increase the distance on slower mechs over 180m very quickly, get behind cover, JJ TAG LOCK FIRE, even when you lost LOS. It's over powered when used like this, that's my point.

LRMs are problematic at the moment. They are being spammed heavily and have HUGE mobility. Their limitations are only small. Face it, they are completely unbalanced if allowed to be stocked in a medium with TAG/NARC doing 90+kph.

Edited by Rex Budman, 14 April 2014 - 02:31 AM.


#11 Lord Perversor

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:30 AM

Imho i would be happy if my Mech may warn me when i'm have a narc on.

Even if it's just some blimp in a screen or something.

#12 El Bandito

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:32 AM

View PostRex Budman, on 14 April 2014 - 02:29 AM, said:


It's your second point, because in a way I agree with your first; the thread is purely to limit Tag and Narc to certain mechs such as ECM is limited to certain mechs. The mediums carry it around, speed in, Tag you, LRM you and allow the rest of the team to spam you.

LRMs are problematic at the moment. They are being spammed heavily and have HUGE mobility. Their limitations are only small. Face it, they are completely unbalanced if allowed to be stocked in a medium with TAG/NARC doing 90+kph.



That is still better than Mediums being completely useless for two full years thanks to PGI's incompetence. You were not there when there was buttloads of "Why pilot Mediums?" threads. Now that finally Mediums are seeing some spotlight, one should not try to curb it.

Also, Mediums cannot field more than 20-40 LRM racks at most. Otherwise, they will have paper thin armor and slow ass speed, and no back-up weapons.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 April 2014 - 02:34 AM.


#13 Rex Budman

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:33 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 14 April 2014 - 02:32 AM, said:



That is still better than Mediums being completely useless for two full years thanks to PGI's incompetence. YOu were not there when there was buttloads of "Why pilot Mediums?" threads. Now that finally Mediums are seeing some spotlight, one should not try to curb it.


So in order to make it viable it should be completely unbalanced and a hinderance on everyone elses game play?

BTW see the Veteran Founder tag?

#14 Lord Perversor

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:34 AM

View PostRex Budman, on 14 April 2014 - 02:29 AM, said:


It's your second point, because in a way I agree with your first; the thread is purely to limit Tag and Narc to certain mechs such as ECM is limited to certain mechs. The mediums carry it around, speed in, Tag you, LRM you and allow the rest of the team to spam you. Not only that, they use it as a brawling weapon with increased accuracy. They can increase the distance on slower mechs over 180m very quickly, get behind cover, JJ TAG LOCK FIRE, even when you lost LOS. It's over powered when used like this, that's my point.

LRMs are problematic at the moment. They are being spammed heavily and have HUGE mobility. Their limitations are only small. Face it, they are completely unbalanced if allowed to be stocked in a medium with TAG/NARC doing 90+kph.


Yeah right because LurmTaros are the bane of this game right?

Seriously the 6x LRM 5 Catapult or 5x LRM 6 Kintaro are annoying but nothing 2-3 Ams can't handle, thus with a mere 5 to 7'5 tons you can nullify 55-65 tons of mech but hey AMS it's overrated and it's a mistake to need to bring it.


This is like complain about the energy builds being too hot when playing on TT or that they run too cool while on Alpine..
MW:O it's a team and somewhat tactics game so you must be rdy to face some eventuality and be able to fight without being granted always the best weapon for the ocassion.

#15 Zerberoff

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:35 AM

View PostRex Budman, on 14 April 2014 - 02:22 AM, said:


Yes but why should a mech have all this capability? It's silly. It does not even need LOS to be effective it only needs it momentarily.

AMS is one thing but not ALL mechs should have to carry it. If they do, then ALL mechs should be able to carry ECM.


When its all needed, why do 80% of all mechs i jump into aint carrying one?

View PostThorqemada, on 14 April 2014 - 02:29 AM, said:

I took out AMS of my Hunchback bcs all it does is running dry while staying in good cover and surrender in the open to overwhelming odds - i had a good use for the 1.5 tons.


Good for you to always find a good cover... sad for the people what stand right behind you trying to join you into that spot but fail because you blocking it this time. Of course AMS runing dry and if you have a good cover it helps you like nothing... but maybe it would have helped your mate inside the Atlas that cant reach the right cover in time.
Teamplay anyone?

#16 El Bandito

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:35 AM

View PostRex Budman, on 14 April 2014 - 02:33 AM, said:

So in order to make it viable it should be completely unbalanced and a hinderance on everyone elses game play? BTW see the Veteran Founder tag?


Does not matter if you got the tag, I have not seen you being active in the forums during that time.

Finally, aside from you only, no one is currently complaining about LRM Mediums. That should say something.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 April 2014 - 02:37 AM.


#17 Rex Budman

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:37 AM

View PostLord Perversor, on 14 April 2014 - 02:34 AM, said:


Yeah right because LurmTaros are the bane of this game right?

Seriously the 6x LRM 5 Catapult or 5x LRM 6 Kintaro are annoying but nothing 2-3 Ams can't handle, thus with a mere 5 to 7'5 tons you can nullify 55-65 tons of mech but hey AMS it's overrated and it's a mistake to need to bring it.


This is like complain about the energy builds being too hot when playing on TT or that they run too cool while on Alpine..
MW:O it's a team and somewhat tactics game so you must be rdy to face some eventuality and be able to fight without being granted always the best weapon for the ocassion.


AMS is absolutely useless and as a PUG you have to reply on the luck of the draw for others to carry it. Not only that, I see in most matches a few AMS mechs, and they do f-all. It's just not a viable counter against the spam.

View PostZerberoff, on 14 April 2014 - 02:35 AM, said:


When its all needed, why do 80% of all mechs i jump into aint carrying one?



Good for you to always find a good cover... sad for the people what stand right behind you trying to join you into that spot but fail because you blocking it this time. Of course AMS runing dry and if you have a good cover it helps you like nothing... but maybe it would have helped your mate inside the Atlas that cant reach the right cover in time.
Teamplay anyone?



This thread is NOT about LRM countering this thread is about Medium mechs using LRM's with TAG as a brawling weapon. They key word here is LONG... LONG range missile.

#18 DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:38 AM

I'd like to just say, I agree. TAG is OP and this is just adding to the many, many posts on how OP TAG is. My great grandmother agrees that my opinion should be appreciated more than others because I am a Founder. I like the idea of the OP but I truly recommend and back TAG being nuffed from the game (no more TAG). This would immediately end the use of ECM in games.

#19 Rex Budman

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:41 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 14 April 2014 - 02:35 AM, said:


Does not matter if you got the tag, I have not seen you being active in the forums during that time.

Finally, aside from you only, no one is currently complaining about LRM Mediums. That should say something.


So there is no vocality thus there is no issue?

#20 Karl Streiger

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:41 AM

When they are able to keep the 180m off - and you arn't able to close or kill them because you have a LOS you deserve that.

Hey - i have a stalker an i have LRMs...and TAG...and you know what - i fire them mostly at ranges below 300m with LOS.
I ran a Wolverine with LRM...same here....

Yes i use them as medium range brawling weapons.... while i admit that they can destroy a target really fast with LOS at this range....(but hey - that is necessary to compete with PPC, and ACs.... and sry its not no skill because i have that TAG on you . at this range every other weapon would hit eighter.





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