7 replies to this topic

[Featherwood]

Well, it could be any customizable color actually, but I want my TAG to have green beam. Ready to pay cash for it. It's easy to implement and will not take many time and resources from more important things, generally it's ready to sell idea. Moreover, it could be a cool tournament or event reward as well. I see it as special TAG unit different from regular TAG (just not to mix them), so it could be installed in any 'Mech to show the status of its owner or whatsoever.
What do you say?

[MilesTeg1982]

Voted No,

actually I don't care wether it would be boring or not. As of now people can identify the TAG by its color and thus know some enemie is tagging them. If the colour can be chosen people might chose colours which can not be recognized as good as the default red - for example green (on a green background).

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

From the Lore on TAG, the beam itself can not be seen unless another Pilot switch's to "thermal" vision.

- Normally the beam is invisible to the eye and on the actual target.

- The intensity would be enough to "paint" the target or location for the receiving munitions to identify.

- The munitions would be "tuned" to locate that specific wavelength frequency.

The reason for the apparent Red coloured beam is it is nearest to the infrared wavelength.
- The colour Red is at 700nm wavelength, in the visible spectrum.
- With infrared falling into the 700nm ~ 1mm range. (not visible)

What we get in the game is a red line from the "trying to hide" Mech to the target that everyone can see. Displaying a line directly back to the spotter. (like "tracers", they work both ways.)

Ref:
How Laser Target Designators work
An intensely focused beam of light is shone at a target. This is known as 'painting the target'. A sensor on the missile detects the laser beam as it bounces off the painted target. The laser-guided munitions follows this aim point, effectively homing in on the beam's reflection. The laser beam is 'coded' which means it shines in specific patterns of pulses. This coding enables the air assets to ensure they are being guided by the correct designator.

The military will normally use a Laser Rangefinder and Designator device for Painting the target for precise munitions. And it normally operates in the Infrared range. With the newest devices eye safe.

PGI doesn't seem to be able to produce a TAG beam that is visible to the operator but invisible to all others, might I suggest that the operator needs to shift to a different visible channel to use the TAG, making this "ray-trace" line invisible to all others.

Just info on why Red for a TAG,

Side-note here:
All those pilots that currently have there TAG locked "ON" will soon need to find a different method to use this devise. When we get the Arrow IV missile system it is designed to home in on a TAG or NARC location, whether it is a Mech or a spot on the ground. If your Mech is waving the TAG beam all over the place the Arrow missile will be guided to that location. And waist perfectly good munitions.

9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 17 April 2014 - 07:54 AM.

[MilesTeg1982]

9erRed, on 17 April 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

PGI doesn't seem to be able to produce a TAG beam that is visible to the operator but invisible to all others, might I suggest that the operator needs to shift to a different visible channel to use the TAG, making this "ray-trace" line invisible to all others.

Making the Tag invisible to other players would make LRMs too powerfull - just imaging a ECM-Spider/Raven painted in a dark colour hiding somewhere in the back of an enemie team tagging them - there is pretty much no way to counter that. Of course some Lights could go searching the ECM-Spider/Raven, but that would take a while - in the meantime the team does not have any protection against LRMs.

Its vital for the game that for every tactic there is a way to counter this tactic

[Mechteric]

Maybe just make the Clan TAG be green.... but I don't see a reason for monetizing that.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Reference "Its vital for the game that for every tactic there is a way to counter this tactic"

As I noted, for an invisible TAG beam, all an Enemy pilot would need to do to locate the "spotter" is shift to "thermal mode" to see the TAG beam as bright as it is in-game now. (or even brighter in thermal)


- Note for the development team at PGI, we need a method of "turning down/up" the intensity/contrast of the alternate vision modes. On some maps the thermal vision is "burned out" from the saturation of ambient heat.
- PGI, your "one mode fits all" on thermal or night vision mode does not work on every map. We need to be able to tune the mode for the environment.

- In a Real life unit there are dials to change the hot mode from "black/white", and decrease/increase the light/contrast level. (even an auto mode that corrects itself, just like a camera does.)
[that's only 3 buttons in-game required to tune that mode, and only needs to be done once for that map.]

Sample of a real unit, but many more controls than we would need in MWO:


So yes, the counter would be to pop on thermal and see the intense bright beam from the TAG.

This is what a real TAG looks like at night:
(the two story building it's aimed at is about 1200mtrs away.)



9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 17 April 2014 - 01:04 PM.

[MilesTeg1982]

9erRed, on 17 April 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

Greetings all,

Reference "Its vital for the game that for every tactic there is a way to counter this tactic"

As I noted, for an invisible TAG beam, all an Enemy pilot would need to do to locate the "spotter" is shift to "thermal mode" to see the TAG beam as bright as it is in-game now. (or even brighter in thermal)


- Note for the development team at PGI, we need a method of "turning down/up" the intensity/contrast of the alternate vision modes. On some maps the thermal vision is "burned out" from the saturation of ambient heat.
- PGI, your "one mode fits all" on thermal or night vision mode does not work on every map. We need to be able to tune the mode for the environment.

- In a Real life unit there are dials to change the hot mode from "black/white", and decrease/increase the light/contrast level. (even an auto mode that corrects itself, just like a camera does.)
[that's only 3 buttons in-game required to tune that mode, and only needs to be done once for that map.]

So yes, the counter would be to pop on thermal and see the intense bright beam from the TAG.

This would not help:

1. A player would need to play in thermal mode all the time - otherwise the first warning would be incoming missles (which could mean its allready too late).

2. A player would need to KNOW that the beam can be seen in thermal mode - that might work for experienced players but it won't work for the typical newbie in a pug who does not even know that he can swith to first person view. (guess I will never understand why 3rd-person was made default)

3. this is a Game - its supposed to be Fun! Invisible tags would spoil that fun completly - no matter how laser-tags work in real life.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

I disagree with "this would not help", this game was originally posted as MWO a "Thinking Mans Shooter", and should require knowledge and skill to accomplish your tactics and win the match.

- The learning curve is not that complicated,
~ learn to drive the Mech
~ learn to move and aim in different directions
~ learn to manage your weapons and heat
~ understand where and how to use your weapons
~ learn how the Mech Lab can and is used

@Miles,
1. Right now, the first warning you are being tagged is the "missile warning".
(and the "how the crap can they see me", leads to you actually looking for that Tagging element)
- This is one of the reasons I suggested (in another thread) an audible warning of a "receiving laser TAG" sound for the Pilot, similar to what fighter pilots and Tanks hear when they are being Lazed or "locked on". That beep, beep, beep.

2. This is something that quite a few new players lack unless they are coming into the game from an organized unit. Knowledge of the controls and functions within the game. How many times have we all seen (in spectator mode) pilots that never lock a target "R", or have all there weapons still set to 1, shoot, overheat, shut down, rinse and repeat. Can't drive and shoot at the same time.
PGI have stated and are working on a Pilots training program, that all new pilots must pass before they are allowed into combat. Sound familiar? Just like in the older MechWarrior games, pass the trials, get your Mech and allowed into the game.
- Known as "First Time User Experience" including "the UI" and "Scripted Training Missions"
(all found in "The Plan v1.0")

3. Speaking of invisible, have you never been hit with long range AC weapons in this game? The shooter was, as far as I was concerned invisible till I was hit. If your company has been flanked by someone or a few Mech's, and you or all the rest of the company failed to notice or had no flank security, tactics are failing. Another great reason for the "command wheel" an instant text comms to the team. ("light spotted,left") Having TAG be invisible doesn't spoil the fun, I'm sure the Mech using the TAG is having all kinds of fun.

Just my opinions,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 19 April 2014 - 03:28 PM.