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Frustration With The Unbalanced Game


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#1 Daggan

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 06:04 AM

I just wanted to express how new player unfriendly this game is.

6 matches played this morning. 6 losses.

All I can say it this pay to win game is not going to get any of my money.

#2 SnagaDance

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 06:09 AM

It's actually not pay to win. In fact I think the makers have done a remarkable job on the front of not making this game pay to win.

Grind to win may be a whole different thing but that's a thing that's almost universal in these types of games, after all it's one of the pillars where the money comes from. Using actual money to lessen the grind. The other pillar being goodies the players want.

Most especially this game has a very steep learning curve. Any mad skills from say, any FPS, is rather useless in MWO. Look for playing advise, spectate other players after you're dead to learn from them and of course ask questions here on the board, we're happy to help!

#3 thecrimsonchin8

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 06:11 AM

I hope you're just trolling. No, this is not the easiest game to get used to if you're new to the Mechwarrior genre, and yes, PGI hasn't done a great job of easing new players in. However, 0 for 6 is not unheard of, even for veteran players, especially when PUGging.

BUT. This is in no way a pay to win game. Many of the Hero 'Mechs (those that are only available for real-world money) are considered at best equal to their f2p counterparts. In fact, several of them are considered outright inferior to their free versions.

My point is this: if you want to talk about balance issues, gameplay problems or openly discuss your ideas for the game, then welcome to the forums. If you're only here to make unfounded claims in the new player forum, in a way that is out of context and will be immediately taken negatively, I have to ask that you whine elsewhere. You're not helping anyone and I sincerely hope that no new or potential players take any of what you've said seriously.

#4 Mike McSullivan

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 06:16 AM

Guess what, Daggan even i, as a paying customer, have loosing streaks! This game has minor balanceproblems and you can call it what you like. but pay2win? not in any means...You get nearly everything by playing, except Heromechs and mechbays(well even those are sometimes for free, like today).


btw how is this Thread "New Players Help"?

#5 Bulletsponge0

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 06:24 AM

View PostDaggan, on 18 April 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

I just wanted to express how new player unfriendly this game is.

6 matches played this morning. 6 losses.

All I can say it this pay to win game is not going to get any of my money.


I'm a new player (less than 2 months) and I can say the learning curve is very steep. Stick around and you'll notice a significant improvement in your abilities. I had a 0.14 kill/death ratio for my first 200 or so matches, but since then I've been able to do much much better (experience helps greatly, as does finding a mech and build that suits your playstyle......and grind that mech and its variants to get it to the elite level, that makes a huge difference with the speed tweak and the improved torso twist and twist speed)

tl/dr Stick with it, you'll get better

#6 Gtbuck

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 06:24 AM

This game is far far far from pay to win, most of the hero mechs are not as good as their standard c-bill variants, but I would also say to new players that have never touched a Mech Warrior game it has an extremely steep learning curve, for that matter it's a little steep for players with MW experience. I've been playing for about a year and a half and still have long loosing streaks, I still find myself getting out of position when I get too aggressive.

Don't let the mechs fool you, they look tough and armored up but even the biggest mech (Atlas) will get cored quickly if the enemy is focusing their fire on it.

Be patient, stay close to cover and watch your team to see how they react. Read the forums, there are lots of tips and tricks here, and give it some time, give the game a few weeks, it will likely take longer than the 25 matches to really 'get' the game. Finally use the trial mechs and see what you like, I would suggest you keep using them until you have enough for a medium or heavy mech, light and assault mechs can be tough on new players.
Good luck and keep asking questions.

#7 Werewolf486 ScorpS

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 06:27 AM

View PostDaggan, on 18 April 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

I just wanted to express how new player unfriendly this game is.

6 matches played this morning. 6 losses.

All I can say it this pay to win game is not going to get any of my money.

Sorry to tell you this, but it's not pay to win. Every money item in the game is pretty much the same as non-money items. The only difference is that you can buy stuff faster with real money then you can with C-bills. As for it being newb friendly you got them on that one. This game is horridly made when it comes to even playing as a vet let alone as a newb. Grinding endlessly for chassis and parts is not my idea of fun. Thankfully I made my money early before they nerfed making money! I suggest you either get with it and start spending countless months grinding away and learn to enjoy it, or you find another game.

Good luck!

#8 Redshift2k5

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 06:37 AM

MWO is not pay to win. Pay to in requires that cash-only items are inherantly better than non-cash items, and that is not the case. Getting the same content faster is never pay to win.

I suspect that your issues have nothing to do with "game balance" and are all related to the lack of support for the new player experience.

MWO is actually fairly balanced; unbalanced would mean that mech X is inherently better than mech Y. Mech balance, weapon balance, etc is actually pretty good. That is not not say you can bring a mch with 6 flamers and 2 SRM2s and win, but you can build a very wide range of effective mechs across all weight classes and across all weapon types.

MWO "new player experience", however, is steep and dangerous. You have a suite of free "trial mechs" which are not as good as mechs other people have earned and constructed; that would be fine if your enemies were also trial mechs, but your only option is to queue with other players in PVP grind it out. As a simulator-like game, MWO is intentionally more complicated than a typical run-and-gun W+M1 type of shooter; this will requir you to learn, read, and ask questions.

you will earn significant c-bills during your first 25 matches, and by using that bonus you will earn the money to buy your very own mech fairly quickly! Think if your first few dozen matches as practice; observe what is going on, ask questions, follow the other guys, and don't make yourself a target.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 18 April 2014 - 06:38 AM.


#9 JonahGrimm

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 06:55 AM

Six matches... I'm not surprised you haven't won.

As others have said, the new player experience isn't easy - heck, as a veteran (and, I hope, as one of the more dangerous light pilots to see on the enemy team), I still had a game last night where I got far, far too aggressive and let a Commando drag me - multiple times - up and down the enemy firing line.

At least I got the commando before the Entire Other Team stomped the squirrel with a vengeance.

Like any other good simulator, there is just... a /ton/ to learn. For instace - did you know that '/' opens firing doors on mechs with armored covers for their missile launchers? This shaves a little bit of time on pulling the trigger, at the cost of some protection for those systems.

Did you know that '.' turns off your cockpit lights? Great for night missions, as it reduces cockpit glare and makes you considerably less visible to mechs running normal vision.

... heck, I went a dozen games before I figured out how to turn on thermal and night vision, early on!

But no, this game is not pay to win. Claiming that here is usually really a statement of how badly you're playing and a lack of understanding as to why.

My advice? When you die, don't leave the match! Spectate! Watch what people do, and try to sort out 'why'. For instance - when targeted by LRMs in the open in my Jenner by a single mech, I usually charge them. Why? Inside of ~170m, LRMs /do no damage/. This is often a fantastic tactic against LRM 'boats', as their secondary armament can't usually keep up with my ability in close.

(LRMs arm at 180m - of their flight distance. Practically, this means that enemies running away from you can be shot sometimes at 150m of iinear distance when the rockets are launched, while enemies running toward you may not be hit at 190m, depending on the angles. Inside of that distance however, LRMs do NO DAMAGE.))

Understanding how to counter specific mechanics - and, more, making those counters instinctive, takes time.

#10 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 06:58 AM

I suck at this game. Let's just have me on record saying that.

I got killed close to ten times before I scored my own first kill, when I was brand-new to the closed beta (~October 2012).

Even then, I didn't LOSE all ten matches. Sometimes, my team went on to stomp the opponent without me. IIRC, this was before Conquest mode, and so all there was, was Assault (without turrets), and only 8-on-8. No Mordor, no Crimson, etc.

Six losses in a row is bad luck, but it isn't unheard-of.


As for the accusation of P2W, I disagree. What are the REALLY meta mechs right now? That is, what mechs are raking in the damage and kills? CTF-3D, for instance. Not a Hero or a Champion mech. You can buy it in C-Bills, which don't cost IRL money. You can buy every last component and upgrade in C-Bills, without any IRL money. If you're new, the Cadet bonus will help you significantly toward this end.

Let's talk about ANOTHER big meta mech. The SHD chassis. Shadow Hawks WERE pay-only for a few weeks. If you paid IRL money for the Project Phoenix deal, at any but the bottom-most tier, you got the Shadow Hawk before it was available for MC or C-Bills. So, for a month or two, yeah. It was P2W. But today, it's available for C-Bills. Has been for months. Anyone with a Cadet bonus burning a hole in his pocket can go trick out a SHD without spending a single Yen, Ruble, Pound, Dollar, or Dollar, in real money.

What have been the successful light builds? JR7-D/F, RVN-3L (vote's still out on FS9 chassis', but they seem to be doing really well). The JR7-D has a IRL-money-only variant, the JR7-D(S) "Sarah's Jenner". Funny, you can buy a plain JR7-D and equip it EXACTLY THE SAME EXCEPT FOR THE PAINT JOB. It was a fairly common build, with 4xML and 2xSSRM2. The pay thing was a fund raiser for a GOOD CAUSE, and not at all a money-maker for PGI or IGP. If you don't wanna pay-up, build the mechanically- and functionally-identical JR7-D for C-Bills. JR7-F Champion mech? Not the BEST F build Jenner, but pretty solid. Still, you can build that exact mech (minus the 10% C-Bills boost) for C-bills only. The RVN-3L has never had a Champion build, and the current RVN hero mech is a rare sight in game.

Also, ask yourself this: How many Hero variants do I see in game? I don't see many. The FS9-EMBER is about the only one I regularly see nowadays, and even then, the FS9-K seems a more common variant. Champion mechs? Some, but not many. And again, it's pay-to-earn-a-little-extra-cash, not pay-to-win, because the same build is possible for C-Bills only.

If by "win", you mean "earn a little more C-Bill in game", then yeah. In that case, there's P2W in MWO. If by "win", you mean "win", then no. There are some players out there with KDRs in the 4.0+ range in mechs built exclusively with C-Bills. Tell THEM that they're paying to win, y'know, when you're trolling them from spectator mode, whilst they roll to another 5 kill match with 1000+ damage and stunning victory. G'head. We'll be here.


There have been a few informed debates of just how P2W this game is. But it ain't. Most of the Hero mechs are inferior to at least one of the common variants of their chassis, and in significant ways. (Huginn with no energy hardpoints, for instance.)

If PGI runs a money-grab for something, like the Clan collections or Project Phoenix, I'm alright with it. I might pay (Phoenix), and I might not (Clan). I still wish I'd gotten in on the Founders deal--I'd have paid in kidneys for that. But they run a Free-to-Play online multiplayer game, which requires $$$. And it's quite possible for a player to play this game for a year or two without ever putting a single penny into it, and to excel while doing so. That, my friends, is rare. They've got bills to pay. And they've got to be financially capable of supporting whatever next project comes along, too, and they've got their own employees to pay.

So yeah, I bought some MC the other day. I got a new JESTER with it, and I'm getting an Ilya Muromets when that sale day comes around. I might even buy some paint colors, or maybe some premium time. Who knows?

But if I win a single match, it'll be free. FREE.

NOT P2W.

#11 SleekHusky

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:06 AM

The game is far from P2W which is probably one of the few redeeming factors it has. Now for being newbie friendly, very very far from it.

Even I had a losing streak yesterday of near similar length yesterday.

My best suggestion is like everyone else said, after dying watch spectator mode and learn. I still do that now. Also once you find a good mech + build you can start using that to grind2win. My first mech was a Catapult K2 which I eventually somehow found the build most players use on my own. Also nowadays using the forums is a good way to find those builds with less trial and error.

#12 CG Chicken Kn

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:12 AM

I would also like to point out that the "grind" in MWO is nothing compared to other games, especially WoT.

You can be a completely free to play person in MWO, and have a fully elited, mastered, and kitted out mech in something like 1/20th to 1/50th of the time it would take to grind a tier ten tank as free to play, Perhaps more like 1/100th as long..

If you don't believe me, go start a new f2p WoT acct. and let us know when you get a tier ten on that account...:unsure:

New player learning curve is steep, and it NEEDS to be. Otherwise this would just be another mindless twitch shooter.

If you like mechs but find MWO very difficult, try Hawken. I am not being insulting, just pointing out that it is a MUCH simpler game.

The depth (difficulty) of MWO is what makes it and the preceding Mech games great and separate them from the rest.
MWO is to shooters as Eve is to say, Minecraft. Good games all, but some are a long road of learning curve above the rest.

Do any of your friends play MWO? Being on TS or other voice comms helps a lot, and there are public TS servers you can join to play MWO with other people, many of which will be more than happy to speed up the process of understanding, and succeeding at the game.

Is it worth the effort? Oh my, yes.

If twitch shooters are more your thing and MWO doesn't do it for you after giving it an honest try, that's fine too. They make different games because there are different gamers. But at least you can play MWO and get mechs just as good as every single other person, while never paying a penny. Heck, they even give you free mechbays and mechs!!!!!!

#13 Shatterpoint

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 09:30 AM

Pay2Win...no
Play setup A,B or C or be less than optimal/victim...usually

One of those games you either play A,B,C for easy kills or work your azz off to be one of the decent pilots of the less than optimal builds.

#14 PieRat

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 09:45 AM

Hmmm according to the OP's logic then... 12 people on red team must all be in pay to win mechs and with pay to win boosters of some kind, and his group are all in freebie stuff???


Sorry but game is far from pay to win.

Dude...this is not your typical FPS type 1 shot kill streak spazmatic game. Keep trying eventually you will get wins.

#15 Koniving

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 09:59 AM

View PostDaggan, on 18 April 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

I just wanted to express how new player unfriendly this game is.

6 matches played this morning. 6 losses.

All I can say it this pay to win game is not going to get any of my money.


This game is many things including unbalanced, but it's not pay to win. If anything in a lot of cases it's pay to lose (as some of the hero mechs are worse than the actual 'free' variants) or pay to skip a grind. But that's about it. There are a few purchases that I do indeed regret. Having spent an excess of 800 dollars over the last few years, owned most of the hero mechs, etc., the only thing remotely pay to win is the X-5 hero-mech, because it simply outclasses its other Cicada variants. Except that 'pay to win' thing dies in a single shot and is the only mech in the entire game that can't equip an anti-missile system. So, it's pretty far from pay to win even then.

However, when you first start the game drops you in with both experienced and inexperienced players to see how you do. If you do poorly, the game eases you to the left against not so skilled players. If you do well, the game jerks you forward against more skilled players and then 'ease' you back until you're doing about 50/50.

Remember that at any given time, there are usually 2 to 4 people in voice communication minimum on each team.
At least 6 players on each time will be more experienced than yourself when you're new. The other 5 on your team will be on equal experience or slightly above or below and the final six on the enemy team will just be going with the flow.

Ballistic weapons are overpowered. Use the heck out of them. PGI's begun a series of nerfs on them. You can get those weapons for free by grinding for cbills pretty easily.

Or, as a light, avoid the entire gaggle and run the edges of the map and take potshots whenever possible. But run back to the gaggle if you're being chased. Works pretty often and good cash.

The main issue is that your team winning or losing depends on your team as much as yourself.

Please, also see this post on this thread from someone who had a 26 loss streak. Since he asked for some help, I gave him some based on his situation with the whack-a-mole gaggleduck problems. It includes some video examples.

Edited by Koniving, 18 April 2014 - 10:12 AM.


#16 Jonny Slam

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 11:13 AM

To the OP, Sorry your having a bad streak mate but I have to disagree with you here. Experienced Mechwarrior players have a hard time at the beginning just like anyone new to the game universe as well.

And here are just two reason why it is not Pay to win:

1- cadet bonus, the Devs actually built in a bonus to your first 25 games to encourage people to play, and it is amazing, also they DID NOT limit that to only one per IP address, meaning you can try to start over several times so you can learn and get in game cash.

2- NO GOLDEN AMMO, MEANING NO SPECIAL AMMO/WEAPONS unlike several other games, no matter how much you pay you cannot buy more powerful weapons or better hitting ammo. Sure the Golden mechs may look silly and seems to be a bad misstep by the Devs into twinky town but even then the golden mechs don't hit any harder or more accurately. Several games out there do let you buy better hits.

The game is hard, and the learning curve is absolutely brutal for sure, but it is not P2W and it is totally worth the effort.

I really hope that doesn't come off as too harsh, I make effort to be as upbeat as possible when I post, yet I feel like you are having a bad run and are blaming something that is not there.

Don't give up, I lost my first 14 matches and 20 of my first 25. (ooooh my poor team mates!)

#17 Koniving

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 11:50 AM

Today alone I've had lost 6 out of 9 matches.

2 losses in trial mechs, 3 in hero mechs and one in my own Hunchback 4P. My wins were in my Hunchback 4P (2) and one in a Banshee with 6 medium lasers and a flamer. (Died horribly but had two kills and the team won.)

In the first Hunchback victory, I scored less than my failed match in the trial Hunch.
In my second, I came out with 5 kills; I changed my fast XL engine 3 PPC Sniperback into a 2 PPC Hunchback with 6 ML and a tag with a standard 200 engine with stock armor (basically a huge downgrade in speed, armor, etc.) and just did better. A lot better.

#18 Shatterpoint

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 01:45 PM

Paying attention to the info people are feeding you can counter any amount of fancy hero mechs and expensive guns, just got out of a match..our team destroyed by a group of largely trial mechs.

Latest example:
Gave everyone maybe 2mins warning that we were being flanked by a large number of enemy mechs, no response, no movement to defend/attack..2mins after that most of our team was dead on the same hilltop they were sat on watching the other side of the map.

#19 MuFasa

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 03:33 PM

View PostDaggan, on 18 April 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

I just wanted to express how new player unfriendly this game is.

6 matches played this morning. 6 losses.

All I can say it this pay to win game is not going to get any of my money.


Let me be one of many that says, don't get discouraged. The learning curve here is a bit steeper than some other games. A simple mistake here can have you setting on the sidelines spectating faster than many other games can. Just take it a bit slower than you would some other games. Accept the fact that you are going to get beaten up some. The developers have, in fact they have included an earnings bonus for your first 25 matches.

If I had a few hints to offer you they would be these; 1 Make the decision to have fun. Enjoy the game for what it is win or lose to start. The competitive part can come as you progress. 2 Slow down at the start of the match see where your team is going and try and figure out where you can best help them. 3 Play all the trial mechs and don't spend any of the c bills you earn till you have a good idea of what chassis class and weapons types you like. You will never know if you like Mediums with ballistics if you don't play any of them. Make use of your time spectating. Might as well you will do plenty of it but watch what others are doing and see both the good and bad that they do.

The last thing I would tell you about is group play. Playing in a group makes this game 10 times better than it is playing alone. Find one that has people in it that you enjoy and play there. It really does make a difference. There are TONS of good, fun, people playing this game and there are a lot of groups. Look around find one that interests you and hang out with them for a bit.

Good Luck! Keep your head up, and remember that everyone here... has been right were you are.

#20 ThatBum42

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 05:01 PM

I don't think the grind is that bad at all. Been playing since about the middle of March and I have 3 mediums and a heavy, fully kitted out, in addition to two free mechbays from the events. I even squandered my cadet bonus like an idiot, and the system was still forgiving. Seems about perfect to me.

Actually paying for things is probably for the very impatient, and, once again, is not pay-to-win, because the things that you pay for are exactly the same things the free players can get (excluding hero mechs, but those are far from overpowered).

Personally I love this game, but no one listens to be because I don't shout loud enough. :L





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