128 replies to this topic

[Enigmos]

Regarding your contention that the game is pay-to-win:
Hero mechs are reliably second-best variant in a chassis series. They won't usually be the worst of the variants, but they are never, that I recall, the best variant.

The only game element that your contention has a leg to stand on is in terms of consumables, like airstrike and arty.

[Fut]

Jherej, on 21 April 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

And I totally do not care how to move a lrm-boat in a city because I would never chose that mech there if I had the choice, same goes for the laser Jenner in terra therma, just to run around to survive a minute and scoring maybe 50-100 hit points... that's neither fun nor the game.

You're making yourself sound like an extremely lazy Mech Pilot.
"I only want to fight in ideal conditions, or in a Mech perfectly suited for certain locations"

Build a decent Mech with a varied load-out, and embrace the challenge that some maps offer. 50% of the battle is between yourself and the terrain in which the conflict is occurring.

[maniacos]

TechnoPeasant, on 21 April 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

As to choosing weapons and maps, how realistic is THAT?? Why not go the distance and allow each side to see the opposition's force composition?? Do you REALLY expect to always know where you will engage and be able to configure the mech to the specific confrontation?? Sounds like you need to get back to the First Person/Deathmatch shooters.

Hu?
Of course do I expect to know where I drop before I drop. I mean, in the BT-universe you would at least know the dropping site and its suroundings before you move in, not? Thats pretty much the normal way any strike force would clear first: What unit to use where. Or when you go on travel to greenland, would you pack in your bathing shorts or the Eskimo jacket? Of course you would get the weather report first and try to select your luggage according to it. Hello, we are in Battle tech, we can customize our weapons and we even have satellites scaning the area!

As for the team play, its not about losing. The other day I had a 1vs1 run Jenner vs Jenner. Laser vs Laser, I lost because the other was aiming better, but it was not frustrating at all because we had a good fight in the canyon network and everyone knew they did their best to win. However with the most teams, you lose 2:12 because no one on your team knows how to freaking play this game. And when this happens several times in a row, always the same, it starts to get frustrating. I mean, maybe some of you like to run against walls again and again, but I know better things to do with my time than winging idiots.

Edited by Jherej, 21 April 2014 - 08:11 AM.

[maniacos]

Fut, on 21 April 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

You're making yourself sound like an extremely lazy Mech Pilot.
"I only want to fight in ideal conditions, or in a Mech perfectly suited for certain locations"

Build a decent Mech with a varied load-out, and embrace the challenge that some maps offer. 50% of the battle is between yourself and the terrain in which the conflict is occurring.

"I live in a time where we are able to build huge battle mechs with lasers and PPC and shit and I demand being able to pick what suits best for a situation" yes.

[Durant Carlyle]

Jherej, on 21 April 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

"I live in a time where we are able to build huge battle mechs with lasers and PPC and shit and I demand being able to pick what suits best for a situation" yes.

But that's not what happened in-universe. You pilot the same 'Mech regardless of where you went.

Thankfully, we have customization, so you can make your 'Mech the way you want. What I'd suggest doing is making less of a one-trick pony and more of a jack-of-all-trades so you're not "disadvantaged" by the map.

[maniacos]

Durant Carlyle, on 21 April 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

But that's not what happened in-universe. You pilot the same 'Mech regardless of where you went.

Thankfully, we have customization, so you can make your 'Mech the way you want. What I'd suggest doing is making less of a one-trick pony and more of a jack-of-all-trades so you're not "disadvantaged" by the map.

I doubt that. I have 4 bays, so I had one for city, one for ice desert, one for hot desert and maybe one for low grav suroundings.

I dont want to make one jack-of-all-trades. Thats boring.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Jherej, on 21 April 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

That this game feels like a beta.

On THAT, we are in perfect agreement. It IS still a beta, even if we're no longer calling it a beta, and even if there's already been an official launch party. It's beta. VERY beta.

There are tons of functionality features that have not yet been implemented, and others that are being revised or even completely replaced. Call it a VERY OPEN BETA.

As for the P2W stuff, it may be that that was the one big issue in your OP that we mostly disagree with. Some agree with you--there are at least two other threads on page one of this forum that argue the same. Were human nature a more fair thing, though, there would be dozens more insisting that, at least MWO is NOT Pay-to-Win.

We agree that the game needs a lobby, so no one argued against that point.

We agree that it sucks not being able to bring the right build for the map, because you don't know what map you're getting until you get there. No one argued against that point.

And so on.

The one really controversial complaint you have there, the one that all but the whiniest of us find disputable, is that this game is P2W. That's why the overwhelming majority of arguments in this thread have addressed that one issue.

I'd recommend giving MWO a break. Come back in May some time, and see where it's at. In the meantime, there are other big (and not so big, but still pretty exciting) releases due out this year. Lots of folks are already playing Warframe. Star Citizen is ramping up. STALKER Lost Alpha will be here in a few more days. By Fall we'll have Borderlands the Pre-Sequel. And so on.

So, take a break from MWO. Play something else for a while. Holla back, girl.

[Fut]

Jherej, on 21 April 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

I doubt that. I have 4 bays, so I had one for city, one for ice desert, one for hot desert and maybe one for low grav suroundings.

I dont want to make one jack-of-all-trades. Thats boring.

Well here's part of your problem, you're trying to play the game differently than how it's intended.

Sure, it'd be great if you knew what map you were about to drop on - you'd be able to pick what you believe is the absolute best possible build for that location.

However, the game is not set up this way. You are seriously gimping yourself by building Mechs specific for only 1 location each.
You should highly consider a different approach to your Mech builds, at least for the time being. I'm certain you'll find more enjoyment with MWO.

[Harathan]

Jherej, on 21 April 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

"I live in a time where we are able to build huge battle mechs with lasers and PPC and shit and I demand being able to pick what suits best for a situation".

No you don't, you're living here and now playing a video game.

[Gas Guzzler]

You are a very demanding customer for someone who doesn't want to pay anything.... just pointing out that you are playing a FREE game and acting like it should cater to all of your desires. Personally, my "specialized" mechs still seem to turn out effective anywhere. I have energy boats that do fine in the desert (hottest map), just equip more heatsinks and it will help your sustained damage output in all maps. Yeah, LRM boats are tougher in the city, but honestly dropping in an LRM boat to any map is rolling the dice. There is always a chance some lights will show up and completely ruin your day. LRM boats are VERY specialized builds, so anytime you drop with one you are risking being caught with your pants down.

In the end of the day, teamwork is the key, and yes it can be hard sometimes but most of the time if you get on teamchat and say "group up" multiple times you can get your team to stick together. A little communication makes a big difference. A lot of communication is how to roll people. VOIP is needed in the game, but I have had a ton of fun playing the game, just solo dropping. Yeah you could end up getting rolled, but most of the time I have fun nonetheless. In a 2-12 stomp, its always good to be the guy with 2 kills

If you are a true MW fan as you say, then just stick with it, try to figure out the game, maybe chip in some $$ to support it. We all want this game to survive so we have a MechWarrior game to play. Fun stuff is around the corner. I think the launch module next week will let you pick a mech after knowing what map you are dropping into. They have to let you pick a mech to abide by the 3/3/3/3 rule. You will start seeing Clan mechs in June, community warfare at the end of the year... It's going to be fun.

[Atomic Funk]

Somebody neeed to go play Farmville, and find some peace for his Kharma.

Still do not understand where all the bitching comes from, if you dont understand, like or comprehend this stuff ....DONT PLAY.

[maniacos]

TheRAbbi, on 21 April 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

On THAT, we are in perfect agreement. It IS still a beta, even if we're no longer calling it a beta, and even if there's already been an official launch party. It's beta. VERY beta.

There are tons of functionality features that have not yet been implemented, and others that are being revised or even completely replaced. Call it a VERY OPEN BETA.

As for the P2W stuff, it may be that that was the one big issue in your OP that we mostly disagree with. Some agree with you--there are at least two other threads on page one of this forum that argue the same. Were human nature a more fair thing, though, there would be dozens more insisting that, at least MWO is NOT Pay-to-Win.

We agree that the game needs a lobby, so no one argued against that point.

We agree that it sucks not being able to bring the right build for the map, because you don't know what map you're getting until you get there. No one argued against that point.

And so on.

The one really controversial complaint you have there, the one that all but the whiniest of us find disputable, is that this game is P2W. That's why the overwhelming majority of arguments in this thread have addressed that one issue.

I'd recommend giving MWO a break. Come back in May some time, and see where it's at. In the meantime, there are other big (and not so big, but still pretty exciting) releases due out this year. Lots of folks are already playing Warframe. Star Citizen is ramping up. STALKER Lost Alpha will be here in a few more days. By Fall we'll have Borderlands the Pre-Sequel. And so on.

So, take a break from MWO. Play something else for a while. Holla back, girl.

You seem to miss, that I am here because of Mechwarrior not because I need a random game. I am not interested in Warframe, Star Citizen or what else crap.
I was waiting more than 10 years for a decent MW game, and got highly disapointed by this one.

And you repeating that a game where you can buy weapons or equipment for real money was not pay to win, it still doesnt make it true. As soon as you can buy something with ingame and real world money, you have pay to win. I already explained that by the example of PoE which is totally not for the money but made by people who love the genre of fantasy RPG and being disapointed by Diablo 3. And once you play it, you notice that fact pretty bold. It was in development for what 5 years or so and not released until the very basics been ready. This here is released half baked to generate money while they develop something useful into it.

Fut, on 21 April 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

Well here's part of your problem, you're trying to play the game differently than how it's intended.

Sure, it'd be great if you knew what map you were about to drop on - you'd be able to pick what you believe is the absolute best possible build for that location.

However, the game is not set up this way. You are seriously gimping yourself by building Mechs specific for only 1 location each.
You should highly consider a different approach to your Mech builds, at least for the time being. I'm certain you'll find more enjoyment with MWO.

Maybe I play it differently than it was intented. But that doesn't disprove my opinion, that it is a bad game. If it was intented this way then the intention was wrong to begin with.

Gas Guzzler, on 21 April 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

You are a very demanding customer for someone who doesn't want to pay anything....

If you had read my postings you would know that I pay when I like the game and when I see it's made by enthusiasts and not by business advocates. I paid for alot of free to play games, as soon as I had fun there. And if I just bought an useles cute cat that follows my path for no reason, I pay because I like it.

[Fut]

Jherej, on 21 April 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

As soon as you can buy something with ingame and real world money, you have pay to win.

You are absolutely, 100% wrong with your definition of "Pay to Win".
To continue to claim that you are not, is going to do nothing but further make yourself look like a fool.

Numerous people have already responded to your P2W accusations, numerous people with an accurate definition of what P2W actually is. Perhaps you should scroll back through and re-read some of the posts.

[maniacos]

Fut, on 21 April 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

You are absolutely, 100% wrong with your definition of "Pay to Win".
To continue to claim that you are not, is going to do nothing but further make yourself look like a fool.

Numerous people have already responded to your P2W accusations, numerous people with an accurate definition of what P2W actually is. Perhaps you should scroll back through and re-read some of the posts.

"You are wrong"
"No you"

That won't get no where. I explained in detail what it is pay to win. Even if pay "only" reduces grinding, its still pay to win because those that pay have benefits from what they pay for.

Edit: The problem here is probably more that I am discussing with fanboys. Reading comments on youtube forinstance draws a total different picture.

Edited by Jherej, 21 April 2014 - 09:30 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Jherej, on 21 April 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

"You are wrong"
"No you"

That won't get no where. I explained in detail what it is pay to win. Even if pay "only" reduces grinding, its still pay to win because those that pay have benefits from what they pay for.

Edit: The problem here is probably more that I am discussing with fanboys. Reading comments on youtube forinstance draws a total different picture.

Believe it or not, you don't get to define what a phrase means...it's not an interpretation. It literally doesn't mean what you think it does.

I'm going to re-label the word "Pineapple" as "representative of the 'here, let me google that for you' meme."

Go Pineapple pay-to-win.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 21 April 2014 - 09:33 AM.

[Rhaythe]

Jherej, on 21 April 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

"You are wrong"
"No you"

That won't get no where. I explained in detail what it is pay to win. Even if pay "only" reduces grinding, its still pay to win because those that pay have benefits from what they pay for.

Edit: The problem here is probably more that I am discussing with fanboys. Reading comments on youtube forinstance draws a total different picture.

Paying to eliminate convenience for rewards that do not affect the competitive impact is the very definition of "free to play". In fact, entire business models and practice theory are derived from that. "Pay to Win" implies you cannot maintain a competitive footing in a game without resorting to real-life currency.
Continuing to shout otherwise will only illustrate a lack of knowledge on the free-to-play market.
I'd recommend you go try "Star Trek: Trexels" or anything by Zynga if you want to understand what pay-to-win is about.

Edited by Rhaythe, 21 April 2014 - 09:35 AM.

[Fut]

Jherej, on 21 April 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

Maybe I play it differently than it was intented. But that doesn't disprove my opinion, that it is a bad game. If it was intented this way then the intention was wrong to begin with.

Actually, it kind of does disprove your opinion.
It's like saying soccer (football) is a bad game because they never let you use your hands.

Think a little bit before posting this shit on the forums, alright?

Jherej, on 21 April 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

"You are wrong"
"No you"

That won't get no where. I explained in detail what it is pay to win. Even if pay "only" reduces grinding, its still pay to win because those that pay have benefits from what they pay for.

Edit: The problem here is probably more that I am discussing with fanboys. Reading comments on youtube forinstance draws a total different picture.

Umm... Sorry, but this is a clear case of you being wrong.
Those "benefits" that these people are paying for with real world money, are the exact same "benefits" that you can get with in-game money.

Honestly though, you seem hellbent on only complaining/bitching/moaning about the game.
So how about you do us all a favour; shut the hell up, and go find a game that you think is more enjoyable.

[Gas Guzzler]

Jherej, on 21 April 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

If you had read my postings you would know that I pay when I like the game and when I see it's made by enthusiasts and not by business advocates. I paid for alot of free to play games, as soon as I had fun there. And if I just bought an useles cute cat that follows my path for no reason, I pay because I like it.

Honestly, I missed MechWarrior so much, it was impossible for me to not like this game. I have put money into this game, and I love it. Too much, in fact. If you claim to be a MechWarrior fan and can't get into this game, then frankly I just don't understand you. Yeah, its not perfect, but once you get the hang of this game, it is extremely rewarding and very fun.

[Rhaythe]

Jherej, on 21 April 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

I doubt that. I have 4 bays, so I had one for city, one for ice desert, one for hot desert and maybe one for low grav suroundings.

Ahha. Problem detected.

[Gas Guzzler]

Ghost Badger, on 21 April 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

Believe it or not, you don't get to define what a phrase means...it's not an interpretation. It literally doesn't mean what you think it does.

I'm going to re-label the word "Pineapple" as "representative of the 'here, let me google that for you' meme."

Go Pineapple pay-to-win.

Rhaythe, on 21 April 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

Paying to eliminate convenience for rewards that do not affect the competitive impact is the very definition of "free to play". In fact, entire business models and practice theory are derived from that. "Pay to Win" implies you cannot maintain a competitive footing in a game without resorting to real-life currency.
Continuing to shout otherwise will only illustrate a lack of knowledge on the free-to-play market.
I'd recommend you go try "Star Trek: Trexels" or anything by Zynga if you want to understand what pay-to-win is about.

Fut, on 21 April 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

Actually, it kind of does disprove your opinion.
It's like saying soccer (football) is a bad game because they never let you use your hands.

Think a little bit before posting this shit on the forums, alright?



Umm... Sorry, but this is a clear case of you being wrong.
Those "benefits" that these people are paying for with real world money, are the exact same "benefits" that you can get with in-game money.

Honestly though, you seem hellbent on only complaining/bitching/moaning about the game.
So how about you do us all a favour; shut the hell up, and go find a game that you think is more enjoyable.

All of these gents are right by the way. Your definition of pay-to-win is wrong. It sounds more like you just don't like pay-for-convenience.

They even have a Victor (arguably one of the best chassis in the game, maybe less so now that they nerfed its agility) trial mech with a big XL engine and 2 UAC/5s that you can play with no grind, no money, no effort, no nothing right now. That thing is easily worth a few 5-600 damage games.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 21 April 2014 - 09:41 AM.