32 replies to this topic

[Anvil ZA]

Hi all. I don't know what classifies as a new player, but I'm new to heavies and in particular catapults. I have a K2 and recently bought a Jester during the sale as my first hero. My problem is, no matter how hard I try, and no matter how I play it, I just can't get any decent damage or score at all. I'll try give some info on what I have tried:

The K2 is okay but nothing spectacular. I run twin LBX and 4 ML, which is surprisingly vicious up close, but I find it just doesn't have the staying power of some other mechs. The Jester however, seems to be made of cardboard (to me anyway), even though I have it up to 400 armor and it's setup the same as the K2. I'm running twin PPC and 4 ML, which seems to be a pretty common build. My issue is that I get minced before I can do any good.

Which is point number 2. All my mechs so far have been assaults (Victor, Atlas, Stalker), and I do pretty well with them. I actually enjoyed mastering them all, but the pult just feels like grinding. I also don't have just 1 particular playstyle. STK is for support, Vic is for flanking and medium punishing, and Atlas is for brawling in the middle of big fights.

So how can I improve my skills with the Catapults? What play-style should I look at using? Attack or support? Maybe a different loadout?

Thanks in advance as always!
Anvil

[Amsro]

For the Jester I use its speed to dictate my engagement range. As well I use 4 Large Lasers to give me more distance again from my target.

All Catapults suffer from a GIANT center torso, in this way they make terrible brawlers. Try not to be the first one on the scene, shoot the targets the assaults are shooting at. Support is the best role for the "pult"!

I use my K2 similar to yours.

I would reccomend getting a 3rd catapult and eliteing them all. Speed tweak helps immensely. Keep at it, these mechs can be VERY deadly, this is another reason you are being shredded, once you are seen everyone shoots the torso.

[Mad Porthos]

About that Jester, it can be a pain to do well in, but I found embracing the laser was the way to go. It's true that the CATAPULT is cursed with a huge CT and even still, a rather easy to hit cockpit. As such, ANY catapult you use should be able to quickly acquire it's target, dump it's load and twist away. This is necessary to have ANY durabilty, spreading incoming damage onto those side torsos and even arms.

Oddly, since LRMS take a while in which you must be directly pointing at your opponent, they are the weapon group that puts you in some of the greatest danger using in direct engagements - because you are looking at the enemy to get the lock, then looking at them to maintain the lock for the ENTIRE FLIGHT. Since you are "locked in" you can't spread damage in the way you need to at all. In theory, for the Jester those PPCs should be great - however, what generally is needed in a mech that needs to constantly twist, turn and bob to survive is a weapon that can be a bit forgiving and that's where the lasers come in for both the K2 and the Jester. Too often a PPC snap shot, though instant, is just too unforgiving and is off target as you are moving, turning and jumping at the same time. Rather, a mix of pulse and standard/er lasers really can work well as long as you have good heat discipline and have a sense of when an alpha is worthwhile or not. The pulse are great for snap shots as you are swivelling your torso from right to left and pass over your enemy. They are also great for mid air shots, if you have a decent angle when jumping with your Jester. For range, ER Large I recommend in both, on the arms.

Precisely because the CT is so easy to hit up close, you want to keep most engagements at range where your pivoting is spreading the damage effectively. Hill humping is out of the question. Move always at diagonals if you can, fanning the Jester's JJ occasionally for little hops. If you DO end up in close, use the JJ alot. This spreads the shots down onto your mech's legs as well.

For the K2, I do very well with 2xac5 and 2 er LL (arms). It's the same theory as above. The pivoting you can do and you fire the ballistics in a brief flurry as your swivelling torso moves over your target. UAC5 can work well for this too. The ER Large lasers on the K2 arms are great for taking great slashes at your opponents legs and for ranged work the complements the Ac5 range.

Lastly, for both the Jester and the C1 (I think), there is the combat cat. It used to be fairly popular with some of the devs and it was simply a Catapult moving as fast as possible, in close, with JJ and medium pulses. In use it would never let anyone focus it's huge CT and cockpit because it was jumping, circling and swivelling always in a way to spread all fire everywhere, yet very precisely using 4 medium pulse lasers and 2 streaks (C1) to great effect. The Jester could do this too, now only with 6 medium pulse lasers and MORE speed. Worth looking into.

As for the c4 and a1... they are pretty doomed up close. The old streakcat just doesn't hold water anymore, what with ecm, bap and the like running wild. The c4 with it's 2 energy and 4 missile...again, needs it's locks. If you must run them, I'd say go with chain fired SRMs. These you can fire in an instant still when in close and even dump in a huge volley if you don't mind the huge ghost heat. They can still do some work and may get better if the devs are right about removing explosion throttling being a major cure/improvement to SRMs soon. The thing to remember though is ALWAYS OPEN your bay doors. The delay with missiles on these mechs is more time you have to be exposing your CT and cockpit to return fire, rather than swivelling your CT/body to spread damage.

[Redshift2k5]

I would definitely want to be at further range in a K2 or a Jester, used to run my K2 as my main mech and I ran it with four large lasers. Good range, decent heat (fire in pairs, not all four and you'll be fine) along with a big XL and lots of heatsinks.

This is not a mech that wants other ballistic+PPC mechs staring down at you, so you need to be aware of your big CT. Torso turn when neccesary, stay a bit further back (ditch those LBX for pair of Ultra/5s or AC10!), and go "hull down" so your arm weapons can shoot over cover while the rest of your mech is behind a ridge or other sort of low cover.

[ThatBum42]

DakkaPult - works well for me, similar to your K2 but with AC/10s. Devastating street fighter. KDR of 3.6 with this thing. <3

[Koniving]

By Catapult...
C4, support.
A1, support.
C1, offense.
K2, offense.
Jester, Flanker

I highly recommend an XL 315 engine as soon as possible, and a weapon assortment like 2 LPL and 4 ML or SPL for your Jester. No more than 11 points of armor for the rear torsos. Everything else front torso and head.

[p4r4g0n]

I can only speak for the C4 which I use as a LRM skirmisher using 2XLRM-A10, 2XLRM-A5 (due to better accuracy compared to LRM-A15), 1XTAG, 1XML (so I'm not completely helpless against someone up close and has helped land a couple of kill shots a time or two).

Equipment: BAP, Target Decay Module, Advanced Range Module & usually Advanced Zoom (used for landing missiles on ECM'd mech or just better visuals)

9 tons of ammo, 2XJump Jets and the largest XL engine I can pack in it to give me 82+kph with Speed Tweak.

Best used between 400-600m with LOS and firing in a single salvo (edit: bay doors need to be open otherwise, the 5's fire first followed by the 10's). Since the LRM-A10 and LRM-A5 have different cool down durations, care needs to be taken in timing the shots. Stick with team mates where possible and move constantly. The speed and jump jets are sufficient to allow me to range from one end to another of team's firing line in most maps.

This moving around also gives a better picture of the overall battle which can be communicated to team mates by using TAG or firing the ML laser as pointers or missiles if target is locked. Sometimes it will be necessary to get in front of team mates for this to work and once they see shots to the side or behind, they usually realize pretty quickly that the team is getting flanked.

Edited by p4r4g0n, 18 April 2014 - 10:01 PM.

[McQueen]

Mad Porthos, on 18 April 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

As for the c4 and a1... they are pretty doomed up close. The old streakcat just doesn't hold water anymore, what with ecm, bap and the like running wild. The c4 with it's 2 energy and 4 missile...again, needs it's locks. If you must run them, I'd say go with chain fired SRMs. These you can fire in an instant still when in close and even dump in a huge volley if you don't mind the huge ghost heat. They can still do some work and may get better if the devs are right about removing explosion throttling being a major cure/improvement to SRMs soon. The thing to remember though is ALWAYS OPEN your bay doors. The delay with missiles on these mechs is more time you have to be exposing your CT and cockpit to return fire, rather than swivelling your CT/body to spread damage.

I agree with everything you said except the bit about the bay doors. If you are running a 4 x SRM6 on the C4 having the doors closed acts like a quick version of chain fire. those horrid looking tacked on launchers outside the box fire and then the launchers under the doors fire. You have to face the enemy a little longer, but not as long as being shut down from overheating or using actual chain fire.

[Jettrik Ryflix]

I enjoy running the extremely fragile double-gauss rifle configuration on the K2. Fragile because an XL engine is required for any speed, and gauss rifles are weak. When the gauss rifle goes, it blows your whole side torso... game over.
It can be a lot of fun to play with, as long as you can find good sniping spots, and don't brawl. It's pretty efficient at picking up kills!

[Anvil ZA]

Thanks to all for the input. Looking at all the above and giving it a few more test runs last night I think I may have found my problems... Me being a bus driver (aka assault pilot) I just threw in an old XL 280 I had spare in favour of more armour and defense in the form of twin AMS and 2 t ammo. Don't think that fully utilises the cats maneuverability and JJs. Definately going to look at using my stalker grind mech and maybe even some premium time so I can get a 315 or 310. Redshift and ThatBum, I do have a pair of AC10s that I originally had on the K2, but me being in South Africa, my ping is about as good as the sign language interpreter at Nelson Mandela's funeral service (google it if you don't know what I'm talking about), in other words it sucks on the best of days. It worked to an extent, but to land hits consistently was almost impossible, hence the LBX. But will give it another shot once I tweak the speed. I also like the twin UAC5 idea.

Well, I'm off to the battlefield to go test all these ideas and grind for a new engine. Will let you all know how it goes.
Thanks again, it's appreciated as always. A community like this is what keeps MW alive.
Anvil

PS, a big thanks to Koniving, who always posts good advice on any and all threads where someone needs help. My hat off to you sir.

Edited by Anvil ZA, 18 April 2014 - 11:34 PM.

[Amsro]

Anvil ZA, on 18 April 2014 - 10:08 PM, said:

Thanks to all for the input. Looking at all the above and giving it a few more test runs last night I think I may have found my problems... Me being a bus driver (aka assault pilot) I just threw in an old XL 280 I had spare in favour of more armour and defense in the form of twin AMS and 2 t ammo. Don't think that fully utilises the cats maneuverability and JJs. Definately going to look at using my stalker grind mech and maybe even some premium time so I can get a 315 or 310. Redshift and ThatBum, I do have a pair of AC10s that I originally had on the K2, but me being in South Africa, my ping is about as good as the sign language interpreter at Nelson Mandela's funeral service (google it if you don't know what I'm talking about), in other words it sucks on the best of days. It worked to an extent, but to land hits consistently was almost impossible, hence the LBX. But will give it another shot once I tweak the speed. I also like the twin UAC5 idea.

Well, I'm off to the battlefield to go test all these ideas and grind for a new engine. Will let you all know how it goes.
Thanks again, it's appreciated as always. A community like this is what keeps MW alive.
Anvil

PS, a big thanks to Koniving, who always posts good advice on any and all threads where someone needs help. My hat off to you sir.

I can reccomend getting an XL300, that gives you lots of flexiblity for almost all Catapult builds. Useful on other mechs too!

Good Luck!

Koniving is a Honorable Forum Warrior to be sure! Always helping.

[BP Raven]

If you have good situational awareness then go 1pt rear CT armour and the rest to the front, with similar distrubution on the sides. Gives you a bit more survability in a stand up fight. Also, the head hitbox of the cat has been massively reduced, so you can fairly safely shave a few points off there if you need the tonnage.

[Anvil ZA]

Thanks again all. Had a pretty busy day with the Jester today. Put the XL 310 with 2 ERLL and 4 ML, shunted almost all armor to front of torsos, and ditched a ton of AMS ammo. What a difference! It's now agile enough that I rarely worry about the rear as it can move quick enough to get the front toward the enemy before any major damage happens, and the full laser-boat loadout makes it very forgiving if you shoot while running and twisting all over the place. I still have a long way to go before I consider myself good with it, but the results are promising. Can't wait to elite it so i can get the lvl 2 tweaks and 2x multiplier.

[Modo44]

XL310 sounds weird. You can get the mech up to XL350 with Endo Steel -- same weapons, very similar cooling -- like this.

[Jonny Slam]

The performance kick you get after mastering the Catapult is incredible, I noticed it much more clearly then any other build I ground out. After they were all unlocked the difference in engagement style became huge as well.

[Anvil ZA]

Modo, I went for the 310 because I kept all 4 JJs. I think it was 2 patches ago (I stand under correction) I read that the whole 1 JJ gives just as good performance thing was squashed. In any case, those 4 jets have helped me big time to dodge and weave, and also to get up to hard to reach "overwatch" spots. I also put a few more points of armour on the legs for when the inevitible happens and my legs get shot up while jumping. Please correct me if my logic is flawed! No help goes un-appreciated!

[Modo44]

I think we are talking different mechs. The Jester can only take 2 jets. For 4 JJ configs, you would take the C1 -- which also has a lower engine cap, and makes much more sense with XL310.

[Anvil ZA]

My apologies Modo, was thinking of the C1 (just bought one of those too yesterday). Been looking at the build you suggested side-by-side to my own, and they are pretty much identical in heat and firepower apart from one JJ. Mine has 2 extra sinks in the torsos to make up for 2 less in the engine. I have to agree that in the long run your suggestion will be a much better build. However, there is method (poor-man method) to my madness. I got the 310 because I felt I could make the most builds out of it in most of the pults, aaaaand also because I already had one in my Stalker 3F, so it was really the only engine I could test with in-game, and I felt it was adequate (only other available to me were std 300 and std 340). Yup, my love of dropping c-bills left and right on mechs that inevitably don't work for me (I call it research) means I now have 8 mechs and only 4 engines...

Anvil

Edited by Anvil ZA, 20 April 2014 - 10:12 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Nothing wrong with that, recycling is friendly for the environment! And so much cheaper.

[Turist0AT]

XL355 with tweak is super dandy