206 replies to this topic

[Black Arachne]

I've only been playing a few months now - but I'm hardly ever logging in for a game these days and ghost heat is driving force that is keeping my friends and I away. I had to learn the hard wary about this mechanic, grinding away to buy an Awesome to find out that firing my ppcs causes my mech to implode. Ghost heat needs to be removed entirely or it has to be increased to allow for more energy weapons. PPC's and ERPPC's changed to 3 so that the Awesome can do what it was MADE to do and all Large Laser variants increased to 4 and should not be linked from each other. However, if you want to keep me playing and spending money on the game - ghost heat has to go and the heat system needs to reworked to low heat - high dissipation (and use the tt values for heat penalties).

Edited by Black Arachne, 20 April 2014 - 10:17 AM.

[Davers]

Statius, on 20 April 2014 - 08:36 AM, said:

As noted above, the real solution is fixing the heat scale and implementing real heat penalties. And in the case of non ammo-bearing mechs, a risk of an overload of energy weapons on the heat scale could be implemented.

I heard they couldn't do movement penalties without totally screwing up HSR. Same reason they had to remove convergence.

[DONTOR]

Viges, on 20 April 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

Who you gonna call?

Spoiler

well done, well done.

[Mystere]

I'll just quote myself:

Quote

Frankly, I just explain it to myself as follows:

Firing too many weapons creates a temporary runaway nuclear reaction that generates more heat than normal. This extra heat is called "Ghost Heat".

As long as I know exactly what "too many" is, I'll manage.

[Mahnmut]

Davers, on 20 April 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:

I heard they couldn't do movement penalties without totally screwing up HSR. Same reason they had to remove convergence.

That doesn't make sense. What difference would it make if a mech is moving slower due to penalties vs moving slower by throttling down or hitting terrain? Sounds like an excuse or just plain laziness.

[Turist0AT]

Ghost Heat limits the gameplay and specialist builds. Missile, energy and balistic boats was scary, yes. But allso situational. If you got your ass hurt from a splatcat or PPC boat, then you are bad and need to start applying tactics.

But ppl think tactics is to hard for them. SO LETS DUMB THE GAME DOWN FOR EVERYONE! Yay!


Go play Call of Battlefield if this game is to hard for you.

But i guess whiners allready won. Never mind ill go and play something different then.

We have thread about nerfing Machine Guns FFS, do i need to say more.

Edited by Turist0AT, 21 April 2014 - 03:37 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Daekar, on 18 April 2014 - 08:54 PM, said:

Ghost heat did exactly what they designed it to do, and changed the game for the better almost overnight. I sincerely hope they don't get rid of it without totally rebalancing the entire weapons balance.

EDIT: I use 3 Large Lasers and alpha them all the time. That's the last heat issue I would complain about. How about the heat level of medium pulses?

Ghost Heat has not greatly impacted my Using 2 AC20. El has it right. Ghost Heat really didn't do much of anything. And Limiting a weapon like the Large laser to 2 is sorta dumb as for me I score more like 5-6 damage per hit average.

[Santos Villalobos]

I have not played in months and GH is what has pushed me away. Specifically, one of my favorite builds - a 4 LL CTF-1X - was gimped, and that was just too much for me after enduring months of punishment at the hands of AC/40s and 3+ PPCs boats and awaiting a fix for them. The large laser's damage capacity does not warrant a 2 max alpha limit. It is easily a 3-4 max alpha weapon.

[Praehotec8]

Since it tells you in the mechbay if your mech has weapons equipped to cause ghost heat, is it still really "ghost" heat? Just sayin....

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Zolaz, on 19 April 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

It is a shame that Paul loves reinventing the wheel. All heat problems could be taken care of by just using the table top heat table.

All problems? Hmmm... How is a movement penalty going to cripple a PPC Stalker sniper boat, exactly? They barely have to move to be effective on places like Tourmaline.

Also, I don't really support going to 3 Large lasers, all things considered. Stalkers are already proliferating all over the battlefield the last week - we don't need to make their hill humping job any easier than it already is.

Before the PPC Stalker scourge was the LL Stalker scourge which was nearly as bad.

If Stalkers were nerfed in some way to mitigate all their strengths, then I might support these ideas.

.

Edited by 5th Fedcom Rat, 22 April 2014 - 09:02 PM.

[EgoSlayer]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 22 April 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

All problems? Hmmm... How is a movement penalty going to cripple a PPC Stalker sniper boat, exactly? They barely have to move to be effective on places like Tourmaline.

Also, I don't really support going to 3 Large lasers, all things considered. Stalkers are already proliferating all over the battlefield the last week - we don't need to make their hill humping job any easier than it already is.

Before the PPC Stalker scourge was the LL Stalker scourge which was nearly as bad.

If Stalkers were nerfed in some way to mitigate all their strengths, then I might support these ideas.

.

You might want to look at that heat scale again, the cap is 30. How many PPC's can you fire before you shut down due to overheat with a 30 heat cap? I'll wait... And then how soon can you fire again w/o imploding your mech from a gross overheat?

The current system (ghost heat or no) has the quad PPC stalker with a heat threshold of >65.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 22 April 2014 - 09:09 PM.

[Tombstoner]

EgoSlayer, on 22 April 2014 - 09:09 PM, said:

You might want to look at that heat scale again, the cap is 30. How many PPC's can you fire before you shut down due to overheat with a 30 heat cap? I'll wait... And then how soon can you fire again w/o imploding your mech from a gross overheat?

The current system (ghost heat or no) has the quad PPC stalker with a heat threshold of >65.

I can fire about 45 ppc's in a single alpha as long as i have the tonnage and space to fit in 421 heat sinks or 211 clan double. Under the original battledroids mech design rules weight limits where set at 400 ton's.

Now assuming that configuration is legal.... it's not. the answer to when you can fire again is 10 seconds or one TT turn. if how ever you wanted to use real time. then its would be the time to dissipate 29 heat with 421 heat sinks.

so 421 heat in 10 seconds = 42.1 heat a second. 29/42.1 = .69 seconds.

So i can alpha and cool off and be ready to fire again in 10.69 seconds. with a heat threshold of 30 using TT heat rules. for MWO it get more complicated since rate of fire was decoupled from heat dissipation and PGI is not using the laws of thermodynamics.

Over all PGI deliberately broke TT to square peg a round whole, because they don't want heat neutral mechs like the 2x gause cat or MG spider....

The end point i'd like to make is very few people actually understand that heat chart since it uses the averaged undissipated heat over a 10 second interval. instantaneous heat spikes are irrelevant. This is the part PGI completely missed...

Edited by Tombstoner, 05 May 2014 - 03:29 PM.

[SharpTooth Steiner]

ghost heat was my idea. believe it or not

[Lyoto Machida]

Daekar, on 18 April 2014 - 08:54 PM, said:

Ghost heat did exactly what they designed it to do, and changed the game for the better almost overnight. I sincerely hope they don't get rid of it without totally rebalancing the entire weapons balance.

EDIT: I use 3 Large Lasers and alpha them all the time. That's the last heat issue I would complain about. How about the heat level of medium pulses?

Hans Von Lohman, on 18 April 2014 - 09:27 PM, said:

Oh, no, no, no, no.

No.

We're not returning to the 6 PPC stalker meta. How soon people forget.

Ghost heat is not what I would have done (I would have prefered scattering shots if you fire off an alpha strike), but I can argue that it did indeed start making people use other builds that were not as broken. Since then the PPC/AC-5 combo has become really popular, but it isn't nearly as bad as it was before Ghost Heat was a thing.

Sorry, you have your preference, but don't assume we all agree with it.

Tezcatli, on 18 April 2014 - 09:43 PM, said:

It works well enough. And I really doubt they're going to waste the time removing it.

Ghost heat fixed things like the 6 PPC Stalker?



I never even drove a 6 PPC Stalker. A 6 LL 3F but that was about it.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Said it before and ill say it again.

1. There need to be consequences to constantly overheating your mech.

2. The heat capacity is too dam high. It needs to be halved.

Check the first link in my sig. Beautiful idea for the heat system, and other borked weapons, if you can read past the Satire directed towards Paul.

[xXBagheeraXx]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 22 April 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

All problems? Hmmm... How is a movement penalty going to cripple a PPC Stalker sniper boat, exactly? They barely have to move to be effective on places like Tourmaline.

Also, I don't really support going to 3 Large lasers, all things considered. Stalkers are already proliferating all over the battlefield the last week - we don't need to make their hill humping job any easier than it already is.

Before the PPC Stalker scourge was the LL Stalker scourge which was nearly as bad.

If Stalkers were nerfed in some way to mitigate all their strengths, then I might support these ideas.

.

Large laser scourge? Where? Since when were large laser boats considered op? I grinded out nearly the entirety of my Awesome 8Q with 6 large lasers before the ghost heat nerf, and never once felt OP.

[El Bandito]

Yeah, never heard of LL boating considered OP.

[NextGame]

ghost heat is one of a number of reasons that I hardly play this game any more (and have stopped spending any money on it). I would be hard pressed to come up with a more convoluted, restrictive, arbitary and garbage set of mechanics to inflict upon the game.

Theres no good reason for the LLas cap to be 2 rather than something sensible like unlimited. Or at least 3

[Zolaz]

Just killing time till Arena Commander. You cant say anything about PGI that hasnt been said already. It would be different if PGI cared, but their actions show that they care about money and little else.

[Blood Rose]

SuckyJack, on 18 April 2014 - 10:11 PM, said:

*snip*
the 6 MG Spider,

Guilty, that Bogeyman was created by yours truly. In a way Im proud to see it is still going.

But back on topic, Ghost Heat is doing nothing for game balance. As has been pointed out, the threats where already dead from other tweaks. The modern threats - the DakkaPhract/DakkaJaeger are still prevailant and far more teriffying due to the massive screenshake that they produce, essentially removing the ability to fight back efficiently. They doi not suffer the GH. The PPC+AC Meta suffers not the GH.
GH adds nothing to the experience. It should be removed.

And I agree with the OP, LL's need a GH buff.

BloodRose