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Map Position Not Accurate While Spectating

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#1 Troutmonkey

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 05:07 AM

When spectating a mech, the minimap will always show them as being in the centre of the map, regardless of where they are. When they move again the map updates with the correct position. This is an issue because it makes it difficult to tell enemies where AFK/Disconnected team mates are, and thus end the game quicker. It's also a bug, which should be fixed on principle as it's been in the game for at least a couple of months (since before UI 2.0). My guess is there there's an "UpdateMiniMap()" function which is only called when the players position changes. Should really be a 30 second job to fix - low hanging fruit and all.

As you can clearly see in this image, this stalker is not standing in the middle of Terra Therma.
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Edited by Troutmonkey, 20 April 2014 - 04:54 PM.


#2 TinFoilHat

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 05:13 AM

See this constantly with disconnected mechs. Been present for a number of patches as well

#3 Troutmonkey

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 07:34 AM

View PostZelthar the mecha wizard, on 20 April 2014 - 05:37 AM, said:

The inaccurate map position during spectating is intentional(if memory serves me right). It was implemented to prevent trolls from giving away positions of their teammates to the enemy team after being killed. That said; a simple "Last Mech Standing", "LMS" Waypoint would fix this issue. Or, have the DC'd player be considered killed by the game. I know from playing since Open Beta that there was a time in which that WAS the case.

Actually that's not correct. As stated, as soon as the spectated mech moves the map correctly updates. If you toggle to another player, their map will also not update until they move, and the same thing happens if you go back to the first player.
Most of the time I really want to use it is because I'm trying to provide intel to other players after I've died, to give my team a better chance of winning.
Aslo Last Man Standing sign is a terrible idea really, because a skilled pilot, even alone, can sometimes manage to take out several enemy pilots if they don't know where he is.

#4 Mad Porthos

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 08:01 AM

Not a bug. They deliberately changed it this way because people were spectating on thier own hiding (and yes, afk) team mechs and bird dogging the enemy to them. As mentioned, it may update if the spectated person is moving, but to ensure their hiding REALLY lets them hide, the mini map is supposed to be "centered" for a spectator. If anything the bug is that it updates now.

I can literally think of dozens of times I have not been afk, have been ready to fight to the end and was even able to possibly win, by killing a few mechs that were heavily damaged, while I was NOT, but I was hiding because they were GROUPED. Thier lights I could handle one on one, but I was waiting for the opportunity to peel them off by firing on the injured, making them go for cover, while the bold would turn and seek out the fight.

I never get that opportunity when another bird dogs me to the enemy. All I get is accusations that I am somehow sheperding my KDR, let us get on to the next game, etc. Well, go then I say, yet everyone seems to feel the need to hang around and make sure that even thier last surviving team mate is killed, like they were. It's like those films that show a fish market in central america, where they have crabs in open topped wicker baskets, but they don't have to keep them covered. Any time a crab nearly pulls it's way out of the basket, the other crabs just instictively pull it back down. Weird but true.

On the occasion that I have been able to be last man, against 3-4, even 6 enemy mechs once... I have won. A rare event, mind you, but as the clock counts down, enemy teams can get impatient, over confident and flat out careless. IF they are not informed that the sole survivor is AFK, maybe they remain wary... but very often after awhile they assume afk or shutdown and thier formation gets wider, more exploitable. Very often the most damaged will move on to the cap, assuming that thier lights will range far afield and find the last enemy. So hiding by the last base has often let me slide in and kill that heavily damaged assault who parked there to finish the game with a CAP. Then as another one or two of the slower searchers arrive, I could deal with them. Finally, it would usually come down to a light battle as thier lights made it back from their searching. Quite often this is where I die and they win anyways, but still it's a better showing then all dying but one, then having to deal with my own team saying... he's by epsilon in the high rocks, shutdown... no, now he's powered up and running in towards theta... now he's at x , y, z coordinate...

Edited by Mad Porthos, 20 April 2014 - 08:01 AM.


#5 whitelightshadow

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 08:03 AM

View PostZelthar the mecha wizard, on 20 April 2014 - 05:37 AM, said:

The inaccurate map position during spectating is intentional(if memory serves me right). It was implemented to prevent trolls from giving away positions of their teammates to the enemy team after being killed. That said; a simple "Last Mech Standing", "LMS" Waypoint would fix this issue. Or, have the DC'd player be considered killed by the game. I know from playing since Open Beta that there was a time in which that WAS the case.


Yes this was a big problem that is why the maps are as they are. Because the early pilots could evade other teams for the lenght of the whole games, some trolls did not want to wait. All they wanted was that their Mech must be released from the game so they could start another. Not everybody will go suicide when they are the last man, some like to fight to the bitter end on their terms.

#6 whitelightshadow

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 08:07 AM

View PostMad Porthos, on 20 April 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

Not a bug. They deliberately changed it this way because people were spectating on thier own hiding (and yes, afk) team mechs and bird dogging the enemy to them. As mentioned, it may update if the spectated person is moving, but to ensure their hiding REALLY lets them hide, the mini map is supposed to be "centered" for a spectator. If anything the bug is that it updates now.

I can literally think of dozens of times I have not been afk, have been ready to fight to the end and was even able to possibly win, by killing a few mechs that were heavily damaged, while I was NOT, but I was hiding because they were GROUPED. Thier lights I could handle one on one, but I was waiting for the opportunity to peel them off by firing on the injured, making them go for cover, while the bold would turn and seek out the fight.

I never get that opportunity when another bird dogs me to the enemy. All I get is accusations that I am somehow sheperding my KDR, let us get on to the next game, etc. Well, go then I say, yet everyone seems to feel the need to hang around and make sure that even thier last surviving team mate is killed, like they were. It's like those films that show a fish market in central america, where they have crabs in open topped wicker baskets, but they don't have to keep them covered. Any time a crab nearly pulls it's way out of the basket, the other crabs just instictively pull it back down. Weird but true.

On the occasion that I have been able to be last man, against 3-4, even 6 enemy mechs once... I have won. A rare event, mind you, but as the clock counts down, enemy teams can get impatient, over confident and flat out careless. IF they are not informed that the sole survivor is AFK, maybe they remain wary... but very often after awhile they assume afk or shutdown and thier formation gets wider, more exploitable. Very often the most damaged will move on to the cap, assuming that thier lights will range far afield and find the last enemy. So hiding by the last base has often let me slide in and kill that heavily damaged assault who parked there to finish the game with a CAP. Then as another one or two of the slower searchers arrive, I could deal with them. Finally, it would usually come down to a light battle as thier lights made it back from their searching. Quite often this is where I die and they win anyways, but still it's a better showing then all dying but one, then having to deal with my own team saying... he's by epsilon in the high rocks, shutdown... no, now he's powered up and running in towards theta... now he's at x , y, z coordinate...


Been there felt it....

#7 Troutmonkey

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 04:55 PM

View PostMad Porthos, on 20 April 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:

Not a bug.

Most definitely a bug. Why would the intended behaviour be to protect your position, but only while not moving?
If you power down the map is not visible to spectators - that is intended behaviour. If your position was meant to be hidden to team mates at other time they would have done that.
Instead, we have a map that sometimes work for spectators - but only after they move, making it difficult to assist teammates.

#8 Deathlike

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 05:09 PM

I hate to tell you that Specing with F9 counters whatever notion of "hiding".

It's most helpful with spotting AFK/DCed mechs, just to get the match over with. It has an indirect effect of "broadcasting hiding mechs" who don't intend to engage due to either health or actual trolling.

So, not fixing it doesn't really solve the the problem in which people are trying to associate with. F9 would still give them away.

Edited by Deathlike, 20 April 2014 - 05:11 PM.


#9 Troutmonkey

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:08 AM

Here's a video which accurate shows exactly what I'm describing.



Notice how the map is inaccurate until he moves, at which point it updates correctly. Swapping to another mech that's not moving does the same thing.

#10 Durant Carlyle

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:50 AM

F9 coordinates are accurate no matter what.

Therefore, a non-updating minimap is a minor concern, whether it's a bug "feature" or an intentional feature.

#11 Mad Porthos

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 08:59 AM

View PostTroutmonkey, on 20 April 2014 - 04:55 PM, said:

Most definitely a bug. Why would the intended behaviour be to protect your position, but only while not moving?
If you power down the map is not visible to spectators - that is intended behaviour. If your position was meant to be hidden to team mates at other time they would have done that.
Instead, we have a map that sometimes work for spectators - but only after they move, making it difficult to assist teammates.


Really not a bug, Troutmonkey. As in, they deliberately added it. One used to be able to get an accurate read on a mech from the mini map, while spectating. When they de-synced it, when spectating, people actually started complaining and saying the mini map was BUGGED AGAIN. They said AGAIN because we used to have other mini map bugs where it didn't work when YOU personally were using it NOT spectating... it would center on the map, or simply not show the map at all, just displaying a "cone of view" with no background and no enemy or friendly markers... or sometimes, SHOW all the markers of friends and enemies, but just glommed right on top of your mech's location on the mini map. To spectators, the centered mini map was believed to be an error where the main problem had been fixed (mini map in play) but somehow PGI had missed fixing it in some other place/display mode (spectating), or worse had re-broken it.

Having sorted the original mini map bugs out, PGI said they did/it was fixed, but then when people saw that the map was centered while they were spectating, there were clear cries of..."PGI you so WRONG!!! It's still bugged!", to which PGI and a moderator or two said it was an intentional feature. This is a long ways back now, so no... I don't have the posts, never thought it would be particularly a point of contention - especially, as mentioned also in this thread, you just have to hit F9 and you still can get the X, Y, Z coordinates of the location you are spectating (along with FPS), and thus report the AFK mechs that you really want the enemy to kill (as well as those hiders you want to die, out of general spite). As to why the implemented feature does not work perfectly, hiding location when the spectated mech is moving too... you can't take that as proof of anything other than it's implementation is not ideal.

As PGI has clearly stated, hiding is not against the rules, or code of conduct. Non participation is. When the immediate problem was being ratted out by spectators "BIRD DOGGING" you... and an additional problem also was that sometimes failed sync drops would have a guy on your team in THEIR teamspeak lobby, any little change to make it a little harder for the enemy team to mop up the last two lights surving in an 8v8 match was appreciated. Sometimes it meant we as lights could actually pull a win, because even the guy from thier team who was bird dogging us would usually be killed by his buddies at the end, just as a matter of course if he couldn't find us, he was at least more points and would stand still allowing himself to be picked to pieces. I suppose people miss those good ol' days, no?

Edited by Mad Porthos, 22 April 2014 - 09:12 AM.


#12 A banana in the tailpipe

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 09:36 AM

I honestly thought this was a feature. It only becomes an issue when you're helping the winning team find your AFK/disconnects at the end of a match. Sadly.. there's 2-4 AFK/disconnects per match due to a buggy engine PGI hasn't fixed, and players who simply dislike the map They've dropped on.

Both of these issues PGI can fix if they want to..... Both of these issues have been around for 6+ months...

Edited by lockwoodx, 22 April 2014 - 09:36 AM.


#13 Troutmonkey

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 04:12 AM

View PostMad Porthos, on 22 April 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:


Really not a bug,


Please, just watch the damned video. You're getting too caught up in the non existent debate over whether it's okay to call out hiding team mates. It's not a feature, it's a bug. If the minimap was meant to be hidden while spectating, it would be hidden. As you can clearly see the map doesn't work until the spectated mech moves, at which point it works perfectly.

Either it's a bug because it updates when it shouldn't (if you are to be believed), or it's a bug because it doesn't update when it should.

https://www.youtube....d&v=FkulGt7yMQg

Edited by Troutmonkey, 23 April 2014 - 04:14 AM.






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