34 replies to this topic

[Goose]

Guy: I'm sorry to call your kid `ugly,' but you mostly want to find a way to get your money back, then do some research on Tom's Hardware …

[Lord Letto]

Summon3r, on 23 April 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

try hitting up pcpartpicker.com and putting your exact system specs into a build, the filter there will show what PSU and what grfx card are compatible with your mobo/case

It's a OEM HP Off the Shelf Computer so his Case won't be on PcPartPicker, his Mobo might not even be on there also:
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16883147413

[ThatBum42]

Lord Letto, on 23 April 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

It's a OEM HP Off the Shelf Computer so his Case won't be on PcPartPicker, his Mobo might not even be on there

Yeah. The motherboards in these things are definitely nonstandard. The CPU socket is rotated 45 degrees relative to the rest of the board. It seems to be something akin to the BTX form factor, but not quite. Sheesh.

Here's HP's support page for it. It has some service manuals and stuff.

Edited by ThatBum42, 23 April 2014 - 04:24 PM.

[shellashock]

Ok, so judging from all the replies (thanks for all of them btw), I should probably pick up the R7 240. Bonus for the AMD bronze game coupon for free! Couple things I would like to ask first though.

What would happen if my 240W PSU is not sufficient to power the R7 240? Would it damage the card or would it just refuse to run?

At least 2 people on the Newegg Q&A section for the R7 240 claim that they can run the card on a 200-250W PSU and "are doing fine." Are they potentially damaging their card, or does this mean that (barring poor PSU quality) a 240W PSU is sufficient for the card?

[Summon3r]

ugh welp, stick a fork in it she's done...

[Golrar]

OP, here is the cold hard truth. I don't mean to sound negative or insensitive, but here it is:

There is a reason this is listed as a "business desktop". It is designed to be a plop in solution en mass for a small to medium sized business where everybody has standardized equipment. It has what the average Excel worksheet drone needs to do the job at hand, with no frills. Because of this, it simply is not going to work as a gaming rig. I can understand budget concerns, and free to very little means a lot in my eyes. However, there is a point where you just have to say it isn't worth the trouble. Those before have given some very helpful tips on small things that could be done or case mods that could be attempted, but the bottom line is this is not a PC to play modern games on. I'm sorry to be the bearer of harsh news, as I truly feel where you are coming from, but you will not like this game or really many other modern games with that system. And chances are it won't last the 5 year upgrade schedule you profess. That system is already 4 years old (http://www.hp.com/hp...3106005pro.html ). That processor was very good for its time, one of the best dual core Athlons to be had, really. However, it isn't worth trying to build a modern gaming rig around. Any "ultra-slim, energy efficient" (straight from HP's promo page) PC is the bane of PC gaming. You can get away with playing games from 2012 or story games maybe that don't require dedicated graphics, but that is about it. I would not even attempt to upgrade this PC. Saving for a few months is the best option. If you can get $400-500 saved by summer, you can build a decent rig that as stated before would net you medium performance. But there is a small silver lining - you can reuse the optical drive (Sorry for the poor attempt at humor).

[ThatBum42]

Running a power supply past its rating could cause it to fail. Catastrophically, in some circumstances. I've have one literally explode before, many years ago. The electrolyte in the filter capacitors boiled and burst their casing, making a loud bang and producing a lot of foul-smelling smoke.

It was in this computer and I believe it was a 400W. It was caused by replacing the 7300LE GPU with a 8500GT, after about a week of operating with it installed. Fortunately, the protections in the unit prevented anything else from getting damaged and I later replaced it with a 650W BFGTech model, but I've heard stories of failed PSUs taking everything else down with them from a power spike.

So be careful if you do decide to upgrade.

Edited by ThatBum42, 23 April 2014 - 05:53 PM.

[shellashock]

Golrar, on 23 April 2014 - 05:39 PM, said:

OP, here is the cold hard truth. I don't mean to sound negative or insensitive, but here it is:

There is a reason this is listed as a "business desktop". It is designed to be a plop in solution en mass for a small to medium sized business where everybody has standardized equipment. It has what the average Excel worksheet drone needs to do the job at hand, with no frills. Because of this, it simply is not going to work as a gaming rig. I can understand budget concerns, and free to very little means a lot in my eyes. However, there is a point where you just have to say it isn't worth the trouble. Those before have given some very helpful tips on small things that could be done or case mods that could be attempted, but the bottom line is this is not a PC to play modern games on. I'm sorry to be the bearer of harsh news, as I truly feel where you are coming from, but you will not like this game or really many other modern games with that system. And chances are it won't last the 5 year upgrade schedule you profess. That system is already 4 years old (http://www.hp.com/hp...3106005pro.html ). That processor was very good for its time, one of the best dual core Athlons to be had, really. However, it isn't worth trying to build a modern gaming rig around. Any "ultra-slim, energy efficient" (straight from HP's promo page) PC is the bane of PC gaming. You can get away with playing games from 2012 or story games maybe that don't require dedicated graphics, but that is about it. I would not even attempt to upgrade this PC. Saving for a few months is the best option. If you can get $400-500 saved by summer, you can build a decent rig that as stated before would net you medium performance. But there is a small silver lining - you can reuse the optical drive (Sorry for the poor attempt at humor).

I appreciate you telling me the truth without sugar coating it. I do understand what you are saying, but if I lasted for over a year on this game with 10 fps, then 10-15 fps for a few more years to come is not that bad for me. Besides, this is by far the most modern game I play. I am still playing old PC games from the Early 2000's.

If this desktop breaks before 5 years is up, well, I'll just go back to my Pentium 4 and stick to homework. I guess if no one else has anymore suggestions besides the R7 240, then I will try that sometime soon and report back if the card fits/runs/whatever.

ThatBum42, on 23 April 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Running a power supply past its rating could cause it to fail. Catastrophically, in some circumstances. I've have one literally explode before, many years ago. The electrolyte in the filter capacitors boiled and burst their casing, making a loud bang and producing a lot of foul-smelling smoke.

It was in this computer and I believe it was a 400W. It was caused by replacing the 7300LE GPU with a 8500GT, after about a week of operating with it installed. Fortunately, the protections in the unit prevented anything else from getting damaged and I later replaced it with a 650W BFGTech model, but I've heard stories of failed PSUs taking everything else down with them from a power spike.

So be careful if you do decide to upgrade.

Did it give any signs that is was going to fail before it did? Might be useful to know the symptoms of PSU failure before I get the card and use it.

[ThatBum42]

shellashock, on 23 April 2014 - 05:56 PM, said:

Did it give any signs that is was going to fail before it did? Might be useful to know the symptoms of PSU failure before I get the card and use it.

In my circumstance it failed without warning because I asked too much of it with that upgrade. I was younger and stupid at the time, and the PSU rating didn't occur to me.

If the PSU is slowly failing, symptoms might include:

• shutting down or restarting during high load
  
• occasional failing to start, BIOS beep codes may be heard
  
• memory corruption
  
• fans or hard disks not spinning due to lack of +12V
  
• USB devices operating intermittently
  
• increased sensitivity to AC line noise/voltage fluctuations, such as the machine shutting down when starting a large appliance in the house, eg. washing machine.

[Catamount]

That PSU is very, very, underpowered, however, the reason the R7 240 is noteworthy for cases like this is because it operates at a mere 30W, max. 30W will not be the difference between your PSU holding up and failing. Tolerances for power are just not that tight, even in prebuilds.

[Kilo 40]

Summon3r, on 21 April 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

yes it prefers nothing less then a quad core and favors Intel heavily. I'd expect nothing less from your system. I7 seem to really put up nice fps and the 760 is a good card

until a couple of weeks ago I was playing on an i3 with a gtx 650 with no problems.

on high settings.

[Summon3r]

Kilo 40, on 23 April 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

until a couple of weeks ago I was playing on an i3 with a gtx 650 with no problems.

on high settings.

that is extremely hard to believe. but if so thats awesome for you, overclocked heavily? what resolution? fps?

[Goose]

I could believe this: I've got a Pentium G620/ GTX650Ti HTPC that I'll take into the training grounds for Great Research. Tweak it a lot and set a framerate limit of 45, and it'll stay steadily that high.

Not that there's much capacity left in ether core, nor the card, but that's how I found the stuff I posted, above.

[Nick Rarang]

shellashock, on 23 April 2014 - 05:56 PM, said:

I appreciate you telling me the truth without sugar coating it. I do understand what you are saying, but if I lasted for over a year on this game with 10 fps, then 10-15 fps for a few more years to come is not that bad for me. Besides, this is by far the most modern game I play. I am still playing old PC games from the Early 2000's.

If this desktop breaks before 5 years is up, well, I'll just go back to my Pentium 4 and stick to homework. I guess if no one else has anymore suggestions besides the R7 240, then I will try that sometime soon and report back if the card fits/runs/whatever.
I hope it works out for you. I hope you get better fps with that investment. Let us know how it pans out.

Did it give any signs that is was going to fail before it did? Might be useful to know the symptoms of PSU failure before I get the card and use it.

[shellashock]

Well, got the R7 240 and I have to admit that I am impressed with how much of a difference a real graphics card makes.

Note: All games tested with Jenner F @ 150 km

Testing Grounds: ( no v sync)

If I am on my best map (caustic valley), I will be running @ 90 fps with everything on low except for textures (very high) with occasional dips into 60 with lots of action barring shader generation. On my worst map (river city night with night vision), I will be running 60 fps with dips into 30 if there is lots of action.

If everything is maxed, it will be 60 consistently with dips into 30 on the best maps and 45 to 30 on the worst maps.


Real Play: (no v sync)

Alpine: average of 30 fps with occasional dips into 25 on HEAVY fire and smoke and highs of 60 fps when against a wall.

Crimson Strait: average of 30 fps with occasional dips into 25 on HEAVY fire and smoke and highs of 60 fps in the water.

Frozen City: average of 30 fps with dips into 25 pretty much anytime I am near mechs and highs of 45 occasionally.


Conclusion:
I am very impressed with this card and I have been consistently getting at least 30 fps across almost every map barring Frozen city. Thank you to everyone who helped me and special thanks to "Catamount" and "Goose" for helping me identify what kind of card would fit my system best and how to tweak MW:O settings to get the maximum performance out of the card.

So far the card has been running on my computer for two days and I have had no issues that would indicate that my PSU is struggling to meet demands. Thanks to "ThatBum42" for telling me what to watch out for.

Thank you for your help and see you on the battlefield!