34 replies to this topic

[shellashock]

Hello all. I have recently gotten a computer that has a Radeon HD 4200 integrated in the motherboard. The full specs are here:http://www.techloops...b24-5004gb.html

Only difference is it has a 64 bit OS instead of 32 bit OS and it has an upgraded hard drive (it's refurbished).

Obviously the integrated graphics is massively bottle-necking my system and I trying to find a replacement card. I am looking for a graphics card (no preference for either Nvidia or AMD), that will be more or less the same power as my system. I will not be upgrading my system for many years to come, so I do not need to worry about upgrading potential.

I have done some research on the internet and have come up with varying opinions for systems that are more or less the same as mine. I have currently found recommendations for the Radeon 6770, the GTX 650(TI), the GTX 750 TI, and the Radeon 7770.

Because I will also have to get a PSU for my system to support the new graphics card, I would prefer a cheaper card to a more expensive one. I also would prefer getting a card that doesn't require an expensive PSU to run properly.

Thanks in advance.

Edited by shellashock, 22 April 2014 - 06:06 AM.

[ValkerieFire]

If I were you I would get the GTX 750Ti, I has the lowest power requirements of all the GPUs you listed, and it is the most powerful. It doesn't need a PCI-E power connector, since it gets all it's power from the PCI slot itself. Great little card, although it is the most expensive of the ones you listed.

Edited by ValkerieFire, 21 April 2014 - 01:01 PM.

[Goose]

shellashock, on 21 April 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

Obviously the integrated graphics is massively bottle-necking …

Er: We know this?

Get a copy of FRAPS and HWiNFO64 and make a log of a few sessions, first in the Training Grounds, and if you get though that, real games.

There's a thread or two on tweaking dual-cores you should look into, before spending money on a new card.

I don't think anybody has a good feel for what's the proper "ratio" of CPU to GPU; If you want to avoid waisting money, you'll have to take it one step at a time, with testing …

[ThatBum42]

I wouldn't trust that HP machine. I've taken a few of that chassis apart before and everything in it is proprietary. The only cards that fit in there are low-profile, and even then the power supply lacks supplemental PCI connectors so you can't use a high power card. Want to use a different PSU? Too bad, the PSU has this...weird, stupid, skinny rectangular shape with connectors that only work with HP equipment, and I doubt that they are manufactured with any kind of respectable rating for gaming components.

So good luck with that. Sorry.

As for an actual recommendation, the 660 Ti is good, specifically the ASUS variant because the cooler is good and it overclocks well.

The 700 series is basically a rebadged 600 series, they're both on Kepler architecture cards with the 700 series having minor engineering tweaks. So if you see a 600 card priced significantly lower than the 700, consider the 600.

[TrentTheWanderer]

shellashock, on 21 April 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

Only difference is it has a 63 bit OS instead of 32 bit OS and it has an upgraded hard drive (it's refurbished).

It sounds like you might be a bit short, there.

[ThatBum42]

TrentTheWanderer, on 21 April 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

It sounds like you might be a bit short, there.

The best thing about Boolean values is that even if you're wrong, you're only off by a bit.

[Summon3r]

That hp machine is going to be a headache ... Anyway if your looking for an upgrade do not go any less then a gtx 760 or equivalent amd card. That being said if u don't care about high settings then the 750ti would do for budget reasons only.

That link u have shows a dual core cpu is this correct? If so the best gpu in the world isn't going to help you mwo is just to nasty to amd in general and dual core cpu's aswell.

Edited by Summon3r, 21 April 2014 - 06:38 PM.

[Diznitch]

When you say MWO is nasty on dual core, you mean that it plays better on a quad-core?

As a benchmark, I have an i7/960 @ 3.3Ghz with a GTX760 and I can play MWO at max settings, 60fps @ 144x1200 (24" IPS display).

[Summon3r]

Diznitch, on 21 April 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

When you say MWO is nasty on dual core, you mean that it plays better on a quad-core?

As a benchmark, I have an i7/960 @ 3.3Ghz with a GTX760 and I can play MWO at max settings, 60fps @ 144x1200 (24" IPS display).

yes it prefers nothing less then a quad core and favors Intel heavily. I'd expect nothing less from your system. I7 seem to really put up nice fps and the 760 is a good card

[shellashock]

Goose, on 21 April 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

Get a copy of FRAPS and HWiNFO64 and make a log of a few sessions, first in the Training Grounds, and if you get though that, real games.

There's a thread or two on tweaking dual-cores you should look into, before spending money on a new card.

My average in testing grounds is 10 fps and is around 8 fps in live matches. My CPU cores never go above 20% in a match except for when I am loading a match.

I have looked into some of those threads about tweaking dual cores and AFAIK they are mostly centered around DX11 and a decent GPU. Hope this data is sufficient.

TrentTheWanderer, on 21 April 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

It sounds like you might be a bit short, there.

Fixed. Thanks for catching that.

Summon3r, on 21 April 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

That hp machine is going to be a headache ... Anyway if your looking for an upgrade do not go any less then a gtx 760 or equivalent amd card. That being said if u don't care about high settings then the 750ti would do for budget reasons only.

That link u have shows a dual core cpu is this correct? If so the best gpu in the world isn't going to help you mwo is just to nasty to amd in general and dual core cpu's aswell.

Yes, it is a dual core and no, I do not care about high performance or high settings. 15 fps is playable for me and is my target. Anything above that is gravy. Also, I do not need to have any high powered cards because I will not be upgrading my computer for another 5 years minimum.

[shellashock]

ThatBum42, on 21 April 2014 - 05:27 PM, said:

I wouldn't trust that HP machine. I've taken a few of that chassis apart before and everything in it is proprietary. The only cards that fit in there are low-profile, and even then the power supply lacks supplemental PCI connectors so you can't use a high power card. Want to use a different PSU? Too bad, the PSU has this...weird, stupid, skinny rectangular shape with connectors that only work with HP equipment, and I doubt that they are manufactured with any kind of respectable rating for gaming components.

So good luck with that. Sorry.

As for an actual recommendation, the 660 Ti is good, specifically the ASUS variant because the cooler is good and it overclocks well.

The 700 series is basically a rebadged 600 series, they're both on Kepler architecture cards with the 700 series having minor engineering tweaks. So if you see a 600 card priced significantly lower than the 700, consider the 600.

Would it help if I took pictures of the inside of the computer so you could determine whether or not it is possible to add a graphics card to it? From what I gathered from your post, my computer is very likely to be impossible to upgrade unless I buy a graphics card that was designed to run on an HP desktop. In addition, I would need to buy a PSU that was designed by HP to fit into their chassis.

Could this be circumvented by removing the casing so the PSU would fit or is it a case of the couplings not matching or something?

[Summon3r]

shellashock, on 22 April 2014 - 06:18 AM, said:

My average in testing grounds is 10 fps and is around 8 fps in live matches. My CPU cores never go above 20% in a match except for when I am loading a match.

I have looked into some of those threads about tweaking dual cores and AFAIK they are mostly centered around DX11 and a decent GPU. Hope this data is sufficient.


Fixed. Thanks for catching that.


Yes, it is a dual core and no, I do not care about high performance or high settings. 15 fps is playable for me and is my target. Anything above that is gravy. Also, I do not need to have any high powered cards because I will not be upgrading my computer for another 5 years minimum.

well i wish you luck my friend if 15 fps is playable thats one more player on the mwo roster and every single one of us is needed!... may be worth trying to overclock that cpu a bit aswell, might get you another 5-10 fps along with whatever your new vid card gets you

either way let us know how you make out.

[Lord Letto]

for a Cheap Budget Low Power GPU, the people at TomsHardware Recommended the AMD/ATI 7750 or the R7 240 (GDDR5 Versions) as a entry level Video card for my brother to upgrade from his old Intel Integrated graphics for WoW: http://www.tomshardw...l#xtor=EPR-8809

Even if he picks up a Low Power GPU Though, He would Still have to upgrade his PSU likely, someone recommended a minimum of a 450W PSU for the 7750 or R7 240 for his system.

Edited by Lord Letto, 22 April 2014 - 08:36 AM.

[Goose]

Right; So: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3260477

Then add

ca_thread = 0
r_MultiThreaded = 1
e_ParticlesThread = 0
 
sys_job_system_enable = 1
sys_job_system_max_worker = 0
s_NumLoadingThreadsToUse = 2
e_AutoPrecacheCgfMaxTasks = 2
e_hw_occlusion_culling_objects = 1
e_hw_occulsion_culling_water = 1
r_beams = 2
r_ShadersAsyncMaxThreads = 2
sys_spec_Water = 1
r_TexturesStreaming = 2
 
ca_thread0Affinity = 0
ca_thread1Affinity = 0
r_WaterUpdateThread = 0
sys_main_CPU = 0
sys_physics_CPU = 0
sys_streaming_CPU = 0
sys_TaskThread0_CPU = 0
sys_TaskThread1_CPU = 0
sys_TaskThread2_CPU = 0
sys_TaskThread3_CPU = 0
sys_TaskThread4_CPU = 0
sys_TaskThread5_CPU = 0
 
es_MaxPhysDistInvisible = 1
e_ObjectLayersActivationPhysics = 1
e_OnDemandPhysics = 0
p_cull_distance = 1
p_num_threads = 2
sys_limit_phys_thread_count = 0
 
e_particles = 1
e_ParticlesCullAgainstViewFrustum = 1
e_ParticlesGI = 0
e_ParticlesLights = 0
e_ParticlesPoolSize = 0
e_ParticlesPreload = 1
e_ParticlesShadows = 0
r_UseGSParticles = 1
r_UseParticlesGlow = 0
r_UseSoftParticles = 0
 
q_ShaderWater = 0
r_fogShadowsWater = 0

You might also want to look into

sys_budget_streamingthroughput = Y

where Y is 1024 time the number you get from typing

winsat mem

into a Command Prompt.

Maybe

r_MultiThreaded = 0

would work better?

You're just gon'a haf'ta test …

Edited by Goose, 22 April 2014 - 11:26 AM.

[Goose]

https://www.google.c...005+Pro+VS853UT

So the NewEgg listing says "1 low-profile PCIe x16" which would make you quest that much harder.

[ThatBum42]

shellashock, on 22 April 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

Could this be circumvented by removing the casing so the PSU would fit or is it a case of the couplings not matching or something?

I wouldn't know, to be honest. I haven't worked on pre-built machines since before 2000. I build all my own computers for this very reason.

My main build, for reference.

Goose, on 22 April 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

So the NewEgg listing says "1 low-profile PCIe x16" which would make you quest that much harder.

This. As I originally suspected.

Edited by ThatBum42, 22 April 2014 - 12:41 PM.

[Nick Rarang]

I'm sorry to say this but you are better off buying a new gaming machine that was intended to run this game that is extremely cpu bound. I'd suggest a Intel 4670K, 8gb mem, and Nvidia GTX760.

[shellashock]

So, because my motherboard/ chipset/ whatever uses a low profile PCI slot, does that mean that I need to find a graphics card that will fit a low profile PCI slot or a PSU that will fit a low profile PCI slot? Sorry for the newbie questions, but I don't know squat about upgrading computers.

Oh, the stock motherboard/CPU is locked, so no overclocking potential.

[Summon3r]

shellashock, on 23 April 2014 - 05:06 AM, said:

So, because my motherboard/ chipset/ whatever uses a low profile PCI slot, does that mean that I need to find a graphics card that will fit a low profile PCI slot or a PSU that will fit a low profile PCI slot? Sorry for the newbie questions, but I don't know squat about upgrading computers.

Oh, the stock motherboard/CPU is locked, so no overclocking potential.

try hitting up pcpartpicker.com and putting your exact system specs into a build, the filter there will show what PSU and what grfx card are compatible with your mobo/case

[Catamount]

OP, I have a lot of experience with your specific CPU (it's on my parents spare computer, which I've upgraded to be a real basic budget gaming machine when I'm there), and it's going to bottleneck any real GPU massively. Being a prebuilt, you can't even OC that chip (they'll hit like 3.6-4 easily, depending on whether you want to change voltage or not). Forget replacing the PSU. If HP even makes a higher capacity PSU, and they may well not (no real reason for them to go through the trouble for the 0.1% of the market who might buy it), it would be exorbitantly expensive.

A 7750 or GT 240, or maybe a GT630 or 640 on the gree side (you can find the 630 in low profile) is the highest end you want to go, and with that you might, MIGHT, hit 15fps. CPU bottlenecks cannot be detected merely by measuring CPU load, and that Athlon II X2 is going to struggle to even achieve that framerate, but it might. You'll have to stay in the power envelope and space requirements of a low profile machine

so I'd get something like this: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814121799

With a TDP of 30w, you can probably just about afford it, power/heat wise and it should physically fit. It will allow MWO to run on mediumish settings, probably dead medium at the best framerates your CPU is going to manage. If you were willing to consider a new CPU, your options might get better. Even pairing that GPU will a better CPU, and Athlon II X4, or a Phenom II X4, would keep you at mediumish, but your framerate would go into the 30s instead of the teens. Pair it with a low-profile cooler, and you have more robust option, with a warning that that HP PSU is never going to stop being problematic, no matter what upgrade path you choose. It's probably struggling to power the machine as-is, as I've seen HP PSUs die in stock setups many times after a few years.

You could also get a new case and a normal PSU to dump the HP guts into, but at that point, you might as well save for a new computer, which is honestly the best option, IMO. I don't know what your financial situation is like, but if you spent the few bucks on the R7 240, then just started socking money away, you could have a pretty decent machine on like $600, maybe even $500. This is the option I would recommend.


If you didn't care how it looked and you didn't move the machine much, you could also mod your case to take a full-sized card (5 minutes and a dremmel tool) and get a standard PSU that just sits outside the case, then get a Phenom II X4 965 and something like an R9 270 or equivalent (including Nvidia cards, or older cards from either company that might run cheaper on the used market, like a 5870). You'd have to run the machine open-panel, which isn't ideal for cooling, but it would work well enough for modest power stock parts. It it not the option I would go with, but it is the DIY option that would give the biggest bang for your buck. You could probably entirely overhaul your machine into something decent for like $200.

Edited by Catamount, 23 April 2014 - 07:00 AM.