126 replies to this topic

[Armored Yokai]

I remember all the way back in closed beta there was this really cool feature called knockdown,
you could knock down an enemy or yourself, based on the speed of your mech or the size and the weight of it. You or the enemy mech would be left vulnerable on the ground from such an impact and Knockdown has also had its issues i.e bumping into a friendly, Lagging into another person... but with that out of the way (excluding the bumping into a friendly) i think the re-implementation of knockdown will make you feel like you are in a battlemech.
feel free to post your ideas on this!

Edited by Armored Yokai, 21 April 2014 - 01:47 PM.

[Adiuvo]

With how crowded the maps are now due to 12v12, no. Removing player control is rarely a good game mechanic to begin with, but I shouldn't be punished because other people can't pilot correctly.

[Armored Yokai]

Adiuvo, on 21 April 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

With how crowded the maps are now due to 12v12, no. Removing player control is rarely a good game mechanic to begin with, but I shouldn't be punished because other people can't pilot correctly.

i know there will be those annoying situations with a friendly mech just being a jerk by ramming friendlies...but at the same time i hardly ever deal with a griefer or teamkiller so the situation wouldn't be too bad

[Screech]

The should make it an option in private matches. I know I would pay out a few bucks to play some matches with collision again. Also private matches you could police 90% of the reasons why they were pulled from public matches in the first place.

Hmmmm...... Make money while providing the public what they want? It will never work.

[xCico]

God no, i saw few vids on youtube how dragon was ramming every mech lol

NOPE NOPE NOPE

[Fomorian]

I would love to be able to steamroll a light again. Little biters circle strafing then BAM on the ground.

[Mcgral18]

Almighty Cico, on 21 April 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

God no, i saw few vids on youtube how dragon was ramming every mech lol

NOPE NOPE NOPE

It was awesome.

My favourite tactic against the Gausskitties was to tackle them in a jumping Jenner. Fun times.

[Foxfire]

I agree that knockdown needs to be re-added to the game but it needs to be much more refined that it was originally.

[Aym]

I assume this is on the backburner, right behind group play, behind CW, 90 days after launch.

[101011]

The amount of hate for knockdown is surprising. Personally, from playing in CB, it was a fun mechanic (I never experience griefing with it) which desperately needed refinement.

[Hillslam]

add collision back

I think an added bonus will be that people won't bunch up as much after they learn it puts them on their arse.

hopefully then no more clueless butt-humpin jagers shooting my back or arm off.


also I would pay real money to see PvE collision implemented - watching a 172kph Spider do a faceplant after clipping a building wall at full run would be priceless.

right now this game is kiddie mode with everyone driving bumper cars.

yawn.

Edited by Hillslam, 21 April 2014 - 03:20 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

The devs just have to fine a way to prevent abuse is some manner, but I do like the idea of having collision damage and the possibility of pushing mechs around (not necessarily having them falling over though) right now we quickly lose momentum and then there can be some rubberbanding currently when we do collide.

[Prezimonto]

101011, on 21 April 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

The amount of hate for knockdown is surprising. Personally, from playing in CB, it was a fun mechanic (I never experience griefing with it) which desperately needed refinement.

I can't agree more, for a second time today.

It was a mechanic that was actually unique and fun in this game. You had to cover your fields of view to keep from being knocked over, but often you could get out of the way if you weren't a dunce. If you worked with a few friends you could easily turn the tables on the people looking to ram you.

I needs a more physics based damage and knockdown model that what we had before. Lighter mechs should have to travel very quickly to have a chance to knock over a heavier mech. They should also fall over, and they should be subject to greater damage from the collision.

Additionally, I'd love to see more fine control of your mech. Knocked over, but still have a shot? Take it. Hit the move key and your mech moves to a kneeling position, ready to fire in that direction, hit it again (or hold down a movement key) and your mech gets up and starts traveling in that direction.

In this fashion players would not be out of complete control of their mechs for longer periods, and they could choose when and how to get up, move, fire if knocked over.

Hillslam, on 21 April 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

also I would pay real money to see PvE collision implemented - watching a 172kph Spider do a faceplant after clipping a building wall at full run would be priceless.

And some of this would be a great bonus to an improved physics damage model. As well as melee weapons. As well as weapon recoil.

Oh good sweet mech gods on high, please give us real weapon recoil. I want to see AC20 and PPC toting mechs fall over while firing sometimes if their mech isn't designed to carry a MASSIVE weapon with HUGE recoil.

Edited by Prezimonto, 21 April 2014 - 03:38 PM.

[FupDup]

Having increased collision damage and having some cockpit shake and/or other effects (i.e. stopping both mechs, without anyone falling over) is fine. But having actual knockdowns can be...problematic. The problems are as follows, in no particular order of significance:


1. Adds even more fuel to the arm's race, because KDs are/were based primarily on tonnage -- bigger mechs got to stay standing after ramming into smaller mechs. There are too damn many people in heavies and assaults as it is. Let's not exasperate the issue.

2. Reduces the weaknesses in close quarters that long-range builds are supposed to have. For example, right now I have to try to take people out before they get within the min range of the PPCs on my Victor. If they get in there, my life gets a lot harder. But with knockdowns, I no longer have to fear people that get close to my meta Victor. I can slam into them at full speed and since I'm heavier than most mechs I'd remain standing. The other guy, however, would be an easy kill for me and would probably be dead before he gets up or at least crippled. He would almost certainly lose the fight.

3. Artillery strikes and airstrikes would be utterly ridiculous because you can just push someone over and then drop a 'strike on their face, and they would have zero hope of escaping. Best case scenario for your victim is that they would be heavily damaged. Worst case scenario would be the victim being instantly killed with pretty much no skill required on your part whatsoever.

4. Bad teammates would make life a pain in the ass while trying to maneuver around. For example, let's say I'm trying to poke around a corner to shoot the enemy, and a friendly Atlas or whatever thinks I'm sexy and begins to dryhump me furiously. I would fall over and probably get killed by enemy fire, due to my teammate's mistake. I should not be punished for his lack of skill.

5. Further degrades the balance of chassis within the light and medium classes. Namely, the smaller lights like Lolcusts and Commandos can't really outrun the "good" lights like Jenners or Firestarters by a very large margin. They would be even more helpless than they are now. The same applies for the 55 ton mediums compared to the rest, but to a lesser extent than the light class. Slow lights would also be even more helpless against fast lights, because they have absolutely no way to kill another light before they close in for the tackle (unless the target is heavily damaged ahead of time).

6. Honestly, seeing gigantic armored war machines try to ram into each other at any possible opportunity just seems...awkward. There's a reason why modern militaries have decided to forgo swords in exchange for firearms.

7. I can't think of any more off the top of my head, but I'll be sure to edit more in if I do think of any.

Edited by FupDup, 21 April 2014 - 04:00 PM.

[White Bear 84]

Before it is ever even considered to come back into game, the mech collisions need to be sorted out; Imagine the kind of experience you will have when you run into another mech, warp out of the map several times (during which time your doll is probably still appearing at the same spot for everyone to shoot) before finally coming back to the map and finding your mech destroyed...

[101011]

The thing is though, you certainly would not see facehugging anymore. It was not that common in TT, and it should not be this common now. You do not wish to get knocked on your ass? Then do not charge that Atlas! Common sense, quiaff?

[CrashieJ]

give it back.

it actually forced players to think and the dragon is basically crap without it (why the hell do you think it's 90% engine, 5% armor and 1% hardpoints?)

Knockdowns were badly implemented, yes, but they just needed refinement. Also the fact that new players don't want to learn how to combat the fact that "hey knocking down hurts, lets try to avoid it"

but alas, situational awareness is not something people want to have.

I miss Jenner football

[Dan Nashe]

101011, on 21 April 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

The thing is though, you certainly would not see facehugging anymore. It was not that common in TT, and it should not be this common now. You do not wish to get knocked on your ass? Then do not charge that Atlas! Common sense, quiaff?

Actually, it was very common in 3025.
Conga Line of Death was very common.
Due to heat problems, kicks were the best weapon in the game, with a base to hit # of 3 on an average pilot.
Then you stand slightly behind and to the side of an enemy, and you are on the SIDE chart. So you always hit the leg on that side. In other words, the weak leg. Then everyone on both teams did that in order of initiative.

Bam! Conga Line of Death.

There are also three separate mechanics at issue:
(1) Collisions with hard bodies that stop mechs. E.g., a jenner runs into an atlas, it stops or has some effect on their velocities. I'd like to see this but it is a major major technical problem in this game: See: SRM hit detection. The question is, how much more content to sacrifice for it? Some, certainly, but not this year . . . :-(

(2) Physical Combat: A Punch or a Kick. I would like to see it in the game. But again: technical issues. Similarly, collisions dealing damage and Death from above dealing damage (when not bugged).

(3) Knockdown: I'd rather not see it. It's just a little too much. And there's limited ways to make it a player skill mechanic instead of random luck or based purely on size. Not to mention deciding who falls down can be arbitrary. I could live with no knockdown in the game.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

FupDup, on 21 April 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

6. Honestly, seeing gigantic armored war machines try to ram into each other at any possible opportunity just seems...awkward. There's a reason why humanity decided to forgo swords in exchange for firearms.

.

If you know anything about Battletech lore you would know that charging, melee, melee weapons incuding maces, swords and axes are a huge part of this lore. And is a lot of fun.

[Clit Beastwood]

Adiuvo, on 21 April 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

With how crowded the maps are now due to 12v12, no. Removing player control is rarely a good game mechanic to begin with, but I shouldn't be punished because other people can't pilot correctly.

I see endless entertainment in the idea of flying around at top speed and hitting enemy mechs in the chest.