64 replies to this topic

[Flaming oblivion]

I'd never play a light people say there the easiest thing to get out of trouble in probably true if you know the maps/ know what your doing.

Fact is in most battles everyone's going for the 12 kill win, in a light your the least armoured and have the least weapons on the board, stand still in the wrong place for more then a second every enemy on the field locks you , you die.

Lose a leg the only thing you have going for you disappears you die.

Try to kill a enemy almost everything is bigger or on the same footing as you means they usually need to hit you a lot less to kill you then you need to hit them.

This is just a few of my thoughts though , I just don't like lights all I personally see them as good for is ecm and getting locks. And honestly I suspect ecm will be largely toned down soon.

Edited by Flaming oblivion, 22 April 2014 - 09:13 AM.

[Unnatural Growth]

It's all covered. Jenners are great light mechs. Light mechs are very, very hard to start off with as a new player. I know, I was there. When I started MWO, my first owned mechs were Jenners. It was painful. But it was because I needed to learn how to play the game, and how to pilot Jenners. That's not the mech's fault. It was mine, for picking a "hard mode" mech to start off with.

And yes, troll much OP?

[Crotch RockIt]

I'm newish to the game (4 months) and am in the process of leveling the Jenners (1st light mech for me), and I really like them. I have the Oxide mastered and the D and F barely elited. Hovering around a 1.0 KDR in all three of them.

My only complaint about them is that the CT hitbox is HUGE. It makes running an XL engine a no-brainer, but I wish the side torsos were just a bit bigger to help spread some of the damage. Also, the head hitbox seems fairly large, too. I've been headshotted in my Jenners far more than any other of my mechs.

I prefer my Cicadas over my Jenners, but I do enjoy running both chassis. The Cicadas seem to take hits better, and I don't really mind the lack of jumpjets when I'm running at 140+ kph.

[Jonny Slam]

Mad Porthos, on 22 April 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

Hmmmm, Drop N F Bombs join date March 17th, 2012. Posts to date, 5. Number of posts available, only the one posted here starting this as OP. All others, removed/moderated. Troll? I leave you to decide.

I don't think it is a good idea to hassle people about join dates and numbers of posts, it is assumptive and the kind of passive aggressive cut downs that do nothing but drag down forums. I have seen it happen on other MMO forums and it should be nipped in the bud, it really really leads to toxic nonsense. Fact is many people read forum but don't post, and many join early, and many join late. None of that should matter. Finding reasons to dismiss a opinion you don't agree with sucks.

The OP put up his thread and it seems to hit a cord with the community and I am glad he made it. Not only have people disagreed with him, they have also provided so fantastic advice and input. That is a good thread, I know more about Jenners now then I did this morning.

[GunnyKintaro 01]

Koniving, on 21 April 2014 - 06:22 PM, said:

Anyway... There was this video in a trial Cataphract 4X. In it, with the help of some others I take on things like a 6 PPC Stalker and a Jenner that 5 or 6 against 1 takes out 2 or 3 guys.

Quite a pilot.

However that requires an XL 300 engine which is about 3 times more expensive than the mech itself, double heatsinks, endo-steel structure, ferro armor, a lot of heatsinks, good heat management, and good fire control and velocity variability.

Now, had I seen the OP's request for a starting mech I would've said Orion. More armor than a Cataphract, good speed, runs great on a standard engine, carries an Atlas-style assortment of weapons and damn cheap.

Agreed

[Koniving]

Mad Porthos, on 22 April 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

Hmmmm, Drop N F Bombs join date March 17th, 2012. Posts to date, 5. Number of posts available, only the one posted here starting this as OP. All others, removed/moderated. Troll? I leave you to decide.

His previous posts were in closed beta; all closed beta threads are locked and unable to be accessed by normal means.
There were a number of people who quit in closed beta as certain changes began to occur (or who struggled with the learning curve and non-existent tutorials).

The only available map being Forest Colony for a long while didn't help either.

[Koniving]

Crotch RockIt, on 22 April 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

My only complaint about them is that the CT hitbox is HUGE. It makes running an XL engine a no-brainer, but I wish the side torsos were just a bit bigger to help spread some of the damage. Also, the head hitbox seems fairly large, too. I've been headshotted in my Jenners far more than any other of my mechs.

The hitbox revamping needs to resume and soon.
Since Jenners are NOT listed under changes, this hitbox schematic is still generally true.


The rear section is just a square, and so long as you don't put your back toward anyone, channel your armor as I suggested. 2 rear, everything else front for the CT and STs.

This one is outdated by a bit, head hitbox significantly reduced, other tweaks (demonstrated lazily above), but also gives you something to compare it to.


You'll live through some amazing stuff. The entire backside with CT coloring counts as rear torso though at my last test (October 2013), the rear pelvis was counting as front CT for all tested projectile weapons (testing excluded LRMs and LB-10x for obvious reasons). (Laser weapons indicated rear pelvis as rear CT).

Edited by Koniving, 22 April 2014 - 12:23 PM.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Drop N F Bombs, on 21 April 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

When I was looking for a good first mech the Jenner was mentioned over and over. It is pure trash. It does no damage, over heats almost immediately, and cannot take a hit. I'm not sure why you guys are trying to chase new players away from the game with these lies but I'm pretty much on my way out. You win.

Wait...what.
Jenners (particularly the F and D versions) are great light mechs, it may simply be that lights do not suit your game play style. Try something heavier when you get enough credits to do so.

[Bilbo]

Since better light pilots than I have given you all the answers you really need, I'll just throw this out there. If I can do reasonably well in a Jenner, pretty much anybody can do reasonably well in a Jenner.

[Flaming oblivion]

I completely agree that the orion is a great mech and is quite heavily armoured and I'd absolutely recommend it, However don't let the armour fool you its far from a tank, And if you position it wrong you will die in a blaze of failure.

Edited by Flaming oblivion, 22 April 2014 - 12:20 PM.

[Koniving]

Indeed. You can make it into a tank though, at the cost of a huge weakness. (i.e. 99% or more armor to the front, almost none to none on the rear).

For a long time when Atlases were slow and mechs were 64.8 to 97 kph I did that. Took a beating from 3 rival Atlases and still had ~some~ armor left when I finished killing them.

But sometimes a light mech could stand behind me and kill me in 2 seconds or less.

Example "Orion "tank."
Compared to stereotypical Atlas balanced armor assortment.
(Sorry for so many quotes, was editing when the link was wrong.)

Also. "slow" Orion recovering from bad positioning.


Yes, a bad position can suffer for any assault mech, but as the Orion is a heavy it can still pull off escapes (a Victor in the same situation is ~Screwed~. For example people are a lot more aggressive toward them; no one lets a Victor escape or prioritizes something else above them.)

Edited by Koniving, 22 April 2014 - 01:02 PM.

[FireDog]

One additional comment..... You need a good computer and decent network if you plan on running light mechs. You will really need high frame rates to get a decent showing out of a fast light. Otherwise you will find yourself running into other mechs and map objects losing speed and dieing often. Also when shooting you will be aiming at lag shadows of where your slow PC thinks you and your target are as opposed to where the server knows they are.

Edited by FireDog, 22 April 2014 - 01:04 PM.

[Koniving]

^
Probably the most overlooked fact of all.

[Crotch RockIt]

Koniving, on 22 April 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

The hitbox revamping needs to resume and soon.
Since Jenners are NOT listed under changes, this hitbox schematic is still generally true.


The rear section is just a square, and so long as you don't put your back toward anyone, channel your armor as I suggested. 2 rear, everything else front for the CT and STs.

This one is outdated by a bit, head hitbox significantly reduced, other tweaks (demonstrated lazily above), but also gives you something to compare it to.


You'll live through some amazing stuff. The entire backside with CT coloring counts as rear torso though at my last test (October 2013), the rear pelvis was counting as front CT for all tested projectile weapons (testing excluded LRMs and LB-10x for obvious reasons). (Laser weapons indicated rear pelvis as rear CT).

After you made this post, I checked the Jenner hitboxes in the Training Grounds (Assuming it has the same hitboxes as the real game. Maybe it's outdated?). The head hitbox was the same as your bottom pic, with all of the glass and frame encompassing the head, not just the front window. This corroborates my in-game experience that the Jenner has a relatively big head.

Also, the rear pelvis was part of the rear CT, not the front. The rest of your top pic is accurate.

This test was done with a single medium laser hitting the Jenner's body parts at close range.

[Barkem Squirrel]

FireDog, on 22 April 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

One additional comment..... You need a good computer and decent network if you plan on running light mechs. You will really need high frame rates to get a decent showing out of a fast light. Otherwise you will find yourself running into other mechs and map objects losing speed and dieing often. Also when shooting you will be aiming at lag shadows of where your slow PC thinks you and your target are as opposed to where the server knows they are.

Just try running a raven at 6 fps, ouch. You can not hit the broad side of an awesome, run between buildings or make a turn, since you already past it.

It was not fun, now it is different I have a better frame rate.

[Koniving]

Crotch RockIt, on 22 April 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

Also, the rear pelvis was part of the rear CT, not the front. The rest of your top pic is accurate.

This test was done with a single medium laser hitting the Jenner's body parts at close range.

For the laser the rear pelvis is the rear CT. It counted as front for projectile weapons. Though, this original test was done before certain ballistic detection issues were fixed (i.e. you shoot someone front CT while they move toward you, it sometimes counts as rear CT).

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Koniving, on 22 April 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

For the laser the rear pelvis is the rear CT. It counted as front for projectile weapons. Though, this original test was done before certain ballistic detection issues were fixed (i.e. you shoot someone front CT while they move toward you, it sometimes counts as rear CT).

Related, do you think, to the supposed CryEngine explosion(s) issue, or not?

[Koniving]

TheRAbbi, on 22 April 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

Related, do you think, to the supposed CryEngine explosion(s) issue, or not?

Considering the fixes and single shot (CryEngine handles up to 18 explosions at the same milisecond, hence the lack of ghost heat for up to 3 SRM-6s rule), no I believe it's unrelated.

Edited by Koniving, 22 April 2014 - 03:53 PM.

[Pjwned]

I imagine what most people neglected to mention (or perhaps you failed to notice, which is more than understandable) is that you desperately need an XL engine, double heat sinks, endo steel structure, and ferro fibrous armor in order to have enough speed, heat efficiency, and tonnage respectively. Stock jenners are horrible, awful, bad mechs and are not representative of how powerful they can be with proper equipment, although of course as a light mech it is rather squishy so you have to know what you're doing a bit. Personally though, I found it to be an excellent starting mech because they're quite fast with a big enough XL engine and they can pack some respectable damage for a light mech, and as long as you're careful you can run away and escape most of the time when you need to.

The jenner is a solid mech, it's just that you crucially need to get it properly upgraded and unfortunately the game falls flat on its face trying to be a good experience for new players because, EXACTLY like you said OP, if you load up a stock mech (especially one as bad as the stock jenner) then you will be slow and overheat constantly with crappy weapons.

I have a lot of matches played in my JR7-D and I like it quite a bit, and the JR7-F is good too if you want more lasers in exchange for missiles although personally it's not my style as much.

[Jonny Slam]

FireDog, on 22 April 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

One additional comment..... You need a good computer and decent network if you plan on running light mechs. You will really need high frame rates to get a decent showing out of a fast light. Otherwise you will find yourself running into other mechs and map objects losing speed and dieing often. Also when shooting you will be aiming at lag shadows of where your slow PC thinks you and your target are as opposed to where the server knows they are.

FANTASTIC POINT!

I used to try and run spiders and it was so disappointing for this very reason. But by moving to different mechs and different roles I was able to find something that fit my computer and the given connection for that day, (I travel a bunch and it is always changing).

Edited by Jonny Slam, 22 April 2014 - 04:56 PM.