54 replies to this topic

[Fiaura The Tank Girl]

Should players who run out of bounds, run off and shutdown to hide at the end of a match because it's a loss, or overheat deliberately to kill themselves receive heavy punishment? Yes I think so.

If you are doing this just to protect your own KDR and punish the rest of us because you are greedy and do not wish to at least be a good sport and grant the enemy the chance to kill you and to be honest you the chance to rack up some easy finishing blows, then you should be punished quite harshly.

System:
Overheating and killing yourself results in counting at a team kill with a:
10,000 C-Bill Penalty
100 XP point penalty
No kills earned this match count towards your Kills
Your death counts towards your death

Can result in actual loss of XP and C-Bills.
This is so really new players or actual accidents are punished but not to the point of crippling gameplay.

Running out of Bounds:
50,000 C-Bill Penalty
500 XP Point Penalty
No Kills earned this match count towards your kills
This counts as a deaths on your part

This is because there is almost no excuse for running out of bounds for a solid 10 seconds and not getting back. Also this will prevent 12 man drops from going, "We didn't get our drop sinc so we're gonna deny yall a fight."

Hiding at the End of Match:
If you are disengaged from the enemy for more than 1:30 minutes and do not reengage the enemy and the match counts as a loss, the following penalty should be applied:

0 C-Bills gained for the Match
0 XP gained for the match
No Kills Earned Count towards your Kills
This counts as a death on your part

This is because you should be willing to fight since there is no retreat option or surrender. Furthermore, you are punishing the entirety of your team by making them wait up to 10 minutes on average for their mechs to be unlocked so they can continue to use them in another match. This is clearly bad sportmanship and should be shown to be such as much as possible.


Side Note:
I am also a fan of a significantly higher penalty for killing allies and those allies receiving your penalty as their make up for being killed by friendly fire because friendly fire never is.

[CocoaJin]

What we need is a retreat mechanic. Running out of bounds(perhaps at certain locations only) should be one method in the running for a retreat mechanic.

Retreating should halt any additional match rewards, so being the last mech and then retreating shouldn't hurt the lone survivor. The winning team can be given some points for forcing the retreat. Early retreaters wouldn't be able to farm match rewards, but private match players couldn't farm points by having friend throw the match by retreating.

Perhaps the winning team can be rewarded for forcing a retreat by getting some percentage of the reward points the retreater earned during the match. This way, it's better for the winners to force the retreat of active players on the other side. The guy who retreats early helps or hurts no one, not even themselves.

[Leopardao]

While I agree that it can be annoying your suggestion does feel a bit like over kill Natalia.

But I like CocoaJins idea, especially if they decide to put back in repair costs.

Just to expand on CocoaJins idea of half rewards, also have it that a retreated mech treats the match as a loss regardless of the final outcome of the match and you don't collect rewards from the point you retreat. (example any assists that would have normally been awarded to you after you retreated are instead canceled)

Also to stop griefing with the retreat mechanic I also agree that the winning team would receive a c-bill&XP bonus for each retreated mech. This does mean you still need to win the match to claim those retreat bonus's.

As for the hiding enemy, why don't we also add a c-bill&XP bonus for each surrendered enemy, AKA each enemy still alive and on the battlefield when the match ends. This also would work well in promoting protecting ones base in Assault since now a winning team who captures the base would also get the surrendered enemy bonus for each surviving enemy.

[Garandos]

Simply put: No.

Longe Explanation:

I from time to time find myself going to die anyway, so i hit that override and deal as much damage as i can within the short timeframe that i have left to fight anyway.

Getting PUNISHED for desperate measures? NO.

[xeromynd]

Garandos, on 15 September 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

Simply put: No.

Longe Explanation:

I from time to time find myself going to die anyway, so i hit that override and deal as much damage as i can within the short timeframe that i have left to fight anyway.

Getting PUNISHED for desperate measures? NO.

^^ This.

I agree with the out-of-bounds suiciding bit, but overheating and killing yourself is not something in need of punishment. New players that Alpha their NVA-Prime for the first time and lose CB and XP? Not a great thing. And seconding the post I quoted above. When I have a whole team closing down on me and death is all but certain, you better believe I am going to Alpha every weapon I have left and try to take out an enemy.

[VixNix]

I say no.

I have seen mechs with Jump jets suicide
I have seen them run out of bounds
I have seen them hide and shut down

All of these have robbed me of kills but I still say no.

The reason is that while some people are doing it on purpose, there is no way to 100% tell that is the case, did they make a mistake or not... so no.

[Danghen Woolf]

As someone who has been the last guy alive in a mach, grossly out gunned and nearly crippled, I wish there was a surrender mechanic. However, the kill-hungry would probably just grief kill you anyway. There is little honor with the current rewards where kills are king.

[Flapdrol]

I think overheat suiciders should be rewarded, ends the match as quickly as possible when the matchmaker has failed.

[Telmasa]

I think that they simply ought to allow us to use Ctrl+Z again.

[Kalimaster]

If anyone here has ever played in a match that I have been in, I have offered the chance for a player to surrender. So far only one has taken up the offer and I did not fire upon him/her. Now as far as punishing a player. How do you know he or she has not gone sniper. To confront a numerically superior force is stupid. When confronting mass opponents, guerrilla tactics work. That is perhaps something you never thought about. Run, hide, snipe, run like (expletive deleted).

[bar10jim]

Simply No.

I would prefer an eject option (as has been mentioned for CW, even if it is not available until something like 7 minutes into the match to prevent farming). Barring that, if you don't like anyone using the shutdown/hide technique, don't play Skirmish. The other game modes have alternate ways to end the game.

Problem solved.

Edited by bar10jim, 10 November 2014 - 04:23 PM.

[The Massive]

Yes but not if you're engaged. Being the last man standing, knowing your dead, hitting the override shutdown so you can go down firing should be allowed.

If they last guy is run-hide-sniping then he's doing damage and will count as engaged. Therefore won't be penalised by what the op's suggesting.

[Cementi]

I voted somewhat because I agree something needs to be done.

However I say no to overheating and killing yourself. There is simply too much of a chance of this happening accidentally ie you have taken heavy internal damage and underestimate your heat generation on terra therma......should a player really be punished for trying to fight.

The 1:30 disengaged rule is WAY overkill as there are many matches, at least in the group que where groups will spend alot of time manuvering without a shot fired. Also I have seen some cagey lights who spent the last 5 mins of a match sometimes exceeding your 1 30 rule actually doing enough gurilla warefare tactics to take down the last 3 mechs on the other team.

I like the idea for reduced rewards for running out of bounds. It should not affect their KDR ratio however if they run out of bounds while they have allies standing it costs them an increased penalty per ally left alive. Maybe default is a 20% reduction in cbills and xp for running out of bounds with another 10% reduction for each living ally you are abandoning at the time of your retreat. Retreats could be a new stat added to the victor's to reward them for causign a route.

Oh and at the end of any match if it is a loss and you have not retreated it should count as a death because if you shutdown and hide or are overrun.....eventually you would be found and killed.

Edited by Cementi, 11 November 2014 - 09:19 AM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Dying via overheating and suiciding still counts against your KDR, so the initial premise of this thread is flawed. It's not your Kill/Killed ratio.

If you die, it negatively impacts your KDR so this complaint isn't warranted really.

Secondly, last desperate measures to try and kill someone should be encouraged, so let them overheat themselves to death. Who cares...maybe they snatch one more kill. Go for it.

Now hiding, is a sourpuss way to play if your only demonstrated intent is to prevent your death, but it's valid for ambushing and in conquest, irritating as it may be, it's valid if you're trying to cap out.

[Savage Wolf]

You should be careful about punishing these things too harshly because they might just be mistakes. I remember teamkilling a teammate by mistake because of weapon convergance. **** happens and that's okay.

But yes, there are black sheep out there you do these things on purpose, but those needs to be reported, not have an automated punishment that they might be okay with. That would just suggest that being a troll is okay, it costs this much. No, the automated punishments are there to tell the common player to avoid this. It will never work on the truly wicked. But improving our options for reporting perhaps even in-game would help.

And I've always been against the option of surrendering in team games because there is always one guy who surrenders and gives up before the battle is truly lost. And even if the option exists, but requires the entire team to accept surrender, then the same type of players will then just go afk until the rest of the team does as he says and surrenders. There should be no retreat, no surrender so that all team members might as well give it their best shot at winning no matter the odds.

[Nightmare1]

18 suicide jockeys voted no.

Go figure.

I say, if you haven't got the guts to stand and fight and take it like a man, then you need to quit playing this game. Suicide is for the lowest of cowards.

[Bulvar Jorgensson]

Solve the problem Get rid o the statistic, make it just a damage done to damage sustained ratio......then all those KDR protectors have to actually do damage in a game to get a positive score.

I'm sure that can be used as an extra formula for working out your ELO, but just take it out of players thoughts, keep it hidden.

As to the lone survivor, well I agree there should be a retreat area or two, where the last mech and it only activates on the last mech, where they can run to either exit, having the opposite team seeing both exits too, and this opens up an end game play.

getting to the exit has nothing gaining or losing, it just mean the 7 minute wait game does not happen as both teams can end the match with either team stomping off the field and winning the match.

this also means that the last mech standing has no reason to go AFK and hide.

heck make it an achievement that you can only get if you have been active (ie, no shutdown longer than 30's or non movement (by that I mean not even moving your arms/torso/legs)) for the full fight until LONE SURVIVOR flashes up on your HUD, then you know it is time to fight or flight.

[Savage Wolf]

Nightmare1, on 11 November 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

18 suicide jockeys voted no.

Go figure.

I say, if you haven't got the guts to stand and fight and take it like a man, then you need to quit playing this game. Suicide is for the lowest of cowards.

I always fight to the bitter end and I voted no. Don't generalize like that or you will antagonize everyone and even the ones that support your idea will be tempted to vote no.

[o0Marduk0o]

22 people are unable to take another mech after dying and call the last player out to kill himself.
22 people are unable to find the last player and still queue for Skirmish.
22 people don't know how the statistics work. Suicide death counts as death.

[Ductus Hase]

Vote NO!

Leaving the map:
Denying the enemy salvage and preserving resources to fight another day is valid roleplay.

Overheating:
Suicide - Denying the enemy salvage in this way might be desperate - but permanent.
Battle - Driving your mech to the limit has risks. Damage and Death are punishment enough.
Last Stand - The one who has nothing to lose can go REALLY hot... see below.

Hiding:
There might be the opportunity for an ambush - valid.

Nightmare1, on 11 November 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

18 suicide jockeys voted no.

Go figure.

I say, if you haven't got the guts to stand and fight and take it like a man, then you need to quit playing this game. Suicide is for the lowest of cowards.

Go figure.

I say, if you haven´t got the brains to press "o" when you stand and fight and take it like a man, then you need to learn playing this game. Overheating while making your last stand is for the greatest of noobies.