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About That *free* Thunderbolt Tdr-9S

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#61 Deathlike

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:26 PM

View PostHeroForHire, on 22 April 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Slow Torso Twist as well as limited TT range of motion is a serious handicap. I've always thought mechs with a crazy TT rotation range are some of the best to pilot - and ones with limited twist range being death traps.
And if it can't pitch well, I guess you're screwed if I light mech gets up to hugging range with you in this, right?


Well, it's not that big of a problem like the Atlas, but if you're trying to shoot stuff directly under you (like from a cliff on Alpine), you'll have a bit more trouble than the Cataphract. Note that the Cataphract's head is in a nice position... the Tbolt is at the top, but also slightly offset, similar to a Hunchback.

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If you're like me and the TDR-9S is your first Thunderbolt, what are the other 2 models you'd choose for Mastering and why?



9SE (for JJs) and 5SS. However, if you like the dakka, the 5S would be a different kind of 9S... the 5SS is a better 9S if you crave energy hardpoints.


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Thanks for the good advice. Just from looking at it I was thinking putting an XL engine in TDR-9S is as good an idea as putting an XL in an Awesome or Hunchback
I like your build, but doesn't it run a little hot??


I don't recommend XL on the Tbolts due to hot the side torsos are easy to hit. If you are being cored more often though, XL would be OK.

#62 Blue Drache

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:31 PM

View PostNgamok, on 22 April 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:


5 ton light Summoner



It has 2 really high mount energy slots where the 5SS only has 1. But the rest of it is like the 5S.


I'd move the PPC into the torso.... since the arms come off sooner than the torsos.

#63 Ngamok

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:43 PM

View PostBlue Drache, on 22 April 2014 - 06:31 PM, said:


I'd move the PPC into the torso.... since the arms come off sooner than the torsos.


Then it's not a Summoner !!

#64 CycKath

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:16 PM

Quite a step down from the three elited teabowls. Haven't found my sweet spot with it yet, running a lot of existing builds with the addition of the second AMS and energy using the high riding points.

#65 SerratedBlaze

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:40 PM

I am surprised to like the 9S so much. No TB experience before hand but I thought up this build at the get go and it's got over 13/4 w/L so far :angry: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d1d60e9e5cb3fa4 I bought a 9SE for the JJ and have had no luck whatso ever. Tried 1ERPPC, 2LRM20 and tag but team lost despite heavy supporing. Tried twin LPL and tri MPL to little avail, tried ppc/LL and srm/mL combo and stil losses abound. JJ are nice but the arm being so far from the cockpit makes obstacles a pain.

So in short, love the new one and am very happy for the gift. The old ones aren't that different at first glance but aren't really worth messing with since 9S is working so well. Assists galore.

It feels pretty bad at twist but my skill tree isnt' mastered yet. Even after the nerf victors still feel more agile, heavies need a light buff to maneuvering rather than nerfing assaults constantly imo. I gave up on maxing torso lasers since any uneven terrain is a joke.

#66 Triordinant

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:53 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 21 April 2014 - 10:51 PM, said:

Anyone else feel like the Tbolt is stuck in molasses?

I ran both my Tbolt and my Phract tonight, both with stock engines, 64.8 kph. The Thud felt like I was driving an Atlas, awhile the Phract felt like it was flat trucking.

One more reason for me to hate the MWO iteration of the Thud.


That's one of the first things I noticed. It needed a 300 engine to feel as fast as the 'Phract. Even then it sways like a drunk with every step. Could that be the difference between humanoid legs and chicken legs? Smoother ride with chickens? :angry:

#67 FupDup

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 07:59 PM

Is it just me, or does the Thunderbolt 9S (maybe even the whole chassis as a whole) not gain any torso twist range from the Twist X pilot efficiency? It doesn't feel like it does much of anything. But maybe that's just because I'm only in basics right now.

While I'm at it, what I'd like to see for Thuds is an increase in max twist range by ~10 degrees so that they can be better at defensive twisting than other heavies. It also lets you load more armor from your back to your front for slightly more durability.

#68 Curccu

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:17 PM

View PostHeroForHire, on 22 April 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

What mechs are the three friends?


TDR-5S(P)

TDR-5SS

TDR-9SE

#69 Deathlike

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 10:49 PM

View PostFupDup, on 22 April 2014 - 07:59 PM, said:

Is it just me, or does the Thunderbolt 9S (maybe even the whole chassis as a whole) not gain any torso twist range from the Twist X pilot efficiency? It doesn't feel like it does much of anything. But maybe that's just because I'm only in basics right now.


I'm pretty sure it does, but I sold off mine already (already mastered it), but the thing is rather "slow" until you get it through basics.

Quote

While I'm at it, what I'd like to see for Thuds is an increase in max twist range by ~10 degrees so that they can be better at defensive twisting than other heavies. It also lets you load more armor from your back to your front for slightly more durability.


It probably needs it, because it is rather torso dependent. I think a Cataphract does better TBH.

What it really needs is a torso pitch increase of 5 to 10 degrees. The biggest problem with the Tbolt is that most of its weapons are in the torso (think Hunchback) and the 9SE is rather inferior to the Cataphract-3D simply because it can't look down as far. Note that they both have the same torso pitch... HOWEVER cockpit placement actually affects your shooting and viewing angles, which the Cataphract rarely suffers from (outside of trying to use SRMs on the 2X).

#70 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 04:05 AM

View PostLevi Porphyrogenitus, on 22 April 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:


Does it actually say that it's completed in your Challenge history?

If it does and you still don't have your t-bowl after 24 hours or so, try contacting support.

In the mean time, if you own other t-bowls already, check your mechbay carefully. The 9S is the one without any kind of label over the Configure button when browsing Owned mechs in the Mechlab.

It took a total of two days for the 9S to finally show up! I thank you all for the advice. Its funny I had to put in about -10 games for it to show up in both Joe and Anton's Mechbay. :P

Mind you for Anton those games were 2 days after completing the challenge ;)

#71 Jun Watarase

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 04:53 AM

Terrible mech in the current meta, but at least better than the energy boat variant if you need to grind xp for master.

No JJs, so its inferior to pretty much every mech with JJs.

Has a ballistic slot, but cant fit an AC20. Instantly makes it inferior to every mech who can mount one. 2x AC5s also got nerfed, so not much love there.

Has a 10 shot missle tube, doesnt have the tonnage to use it properly, and a single LRM-10 is useless for anything except tagging enemies for easy assists. A single SRM-6 doesnt have much firepower either and is buggy as hell (Hit detection issues).

Can mount 6 energy slots but wont be able to sustain the heat. 5 med lasers, a AC10 and 18 DHS puts you at 56% cooling ratio which still runs very hot on most maps and isnt enough close range firepower.

It doesnt have the close range firepower it needs (AC20), is inferior for sniping (no JJs, not particularly small), isnt terribly fast to be a skirmishers, and doesnt have enough missle slots to take advantage of streaks or LRMs.

Its the very definition of jack of all trades but bad at everything.

Even the CTF-1X is better than this because you can mount 4 med lasers and a AC20 which is decent close range firepower. The ballistic isnt on a easy to shoot off arm either. The downside being that the CT cockpit makes you easy to blind with weapons fire, so you wont be able to see what you are shooting at (unless nobody is shooting at you).

#72 oldradagast

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:38 AM

I can't agree with the statement that it is useless in the current meta.

Sure, it lacks jump jets, huge ballistics ability, and can't pack a ton of missiles. It also tends to run hot because of all the energy hardpoints that folks want to use. But the mech does have 2 high-mounted energy hardpoints on the right torso, which allow it to snipe with PPCs with minimal exposure, much like how Jager's snipe and hill hump with ballistics.

So, while I don't see Thuds tearing it up in the current game, this variant has at least 1 use that is meta relevant.

#73 That Dawg

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:55 AM

I loved it at first, then I realized.........there are about five or six unique, different mechs in the whole game. This is just a mishmash of several other mechs. Not stronger substantially in some special way to keep it.

its GREAT we got a free mech, loaded with stuff, and a free bay.
I mean real nice. no neg rep there

its a decent enough mech, if you have them already, its an ok addition.
its not unique or special enough to grind two more to get this one (or one of the others) maxed out. Half a dozen or so other mechs do all this, or more, or less depending.
I stripped it for now, its sitting, dont need an open mech bay, so it collects dust while I run other similar mechs I'm familiar with and are optimized.
thanks for the mech pgi!

#74 tayhimself

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 08:14 AM

View PostHeroForHire, on 22 April 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Slow Torso Twist as well as limited TT range of motion is a serious handicap. I've always thought mechs with a crazy TT rotation range are some of the best to pilot - and ones with limited twist range being death traps.
And if it can't pitch well, I guess you're screwed if I light mech gets up to hugging range with you in this, right?

Tay, nice build! Just curious -- With the AC5's better (faster) recycle time, why would you want to use an AC10?

If you're like me and the TDR-9S is your first Thunderbolt, what are the other 2 models you'd choose for Mastering and why?


Light mechs are a problem in the TDR if you don't have a big engine, at least I assume until you have all the elite efficiencies. 300 is a sweet spot for both the XL and STD. I removed the dual AC/5s from the TDR because the arm mounts are pretty low making them problematic for long range combat, and dual AC/5s don't have enough of an advantage over an AC/10 in close combat (other than the 2 dps difference of course).

The drop in weight of 5 tons from 16 tons to 12 tons plus a ton less ammo, allowed let me at a LL and an extra heatsink. Now I can have 2 LL in the right torso on good high mounts.

As for the other variants, I agree with people that mention that the 5S is quite similar. If you like energy boats (I do), the 5SS is a fun skirmisher. I use the 9SE as a JJ capable missile boat.

Here are my builds for each, I'd drop engine sizes or heatsinks if you favor PPCs. PPCs will do better but lasers are more fun to play with and we aren't playing TDRs just to fit 2x PPC + 2x AC/5s I hope...

5SS http://mwo.smurfy-ne...99b9cb46751ed70
9SE http://mwo.smurfy-ne...562c1b6babe0514
9SE alternate http://mwo.smurfy-ne...816a1648be3f6ed

#75 Roadkill

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:25 AM

9S is my new favorite Thunderbolt. Yeah, it's still a Thunderbolt so it isn't great, but in my opinion it's better than the others.

Advantages:

2 high energy mounts in the RT like the 9SE. Put a couple of PPCs in there and you have an excellent hill-humping sniper.

2 ballistics in the left arm. While not great because they're low and outside, it gives the 9S pretty good ballistic ability.

Disadvantages:

It's a Thunderbolt. Practically by design, they're pretty average.

Nerfed maneuverability. Though this can be mitigated with the right build.

My favorite build is a 280XL, 2 PPCs in the RT, and 2 AC/5s in the LA. I carry 4 tons of ammo. The 280XL gives it good maneuverability for a sniper, though you do have to worry about getting killed via a side torso. 2 PPCs and 2 AC/5s gives it nice sniping power, and even if you get forced into a brawl that's a decent loadout.

I tried using ERPPCs but they're just too hot because I don't have the tonnage for sufficient heat sinks. I suppose I could downgrade the 2 AC/5s to an AC/10 but I like the firing cadence of the AC/5.

#76 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:39 AM

View PostRoadkill, on 23 April 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

Disadvantages:

It's a Thunderbolt. Practically by design, they're pretty average.


You know on TT, that was a strength! :)

#77 Jun Watarase

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 11:04 AM

View Postoldradagast, on 23 April 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

I can't agree with the statement that it is useless in the current meta.

Sure, it lacks jump jets, huge ballistics ability, and can't pack a ton of missiles. It also tends to run hot because of all the energy hardpoints that folks want to use. But the mech does have 2 high-mounted energy hardpoints on the right torso, which allow it to snipe with PPCs with minimal exposure, much like how Jager's snipe and hill hump with ballistics.

So, while I don't see Thuds tearing it up in the current game, this variant has at least 1 use that is meta relevant.


The problem is there is no reason to use it for PPC sniping when you can use a JJ mech to do the job. like a victor or highlander.

#78 Deathlike

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 11:43 AM

View PostRoadkill, on 23 April 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

Advantages:

2 high energy mounts in the RT like the 9SE. Put a couple of PPCs in there and you have an excellent hill-humping sniper.


It's really the 5SS you're comparing it to. Only the 9S+5SS has it available.

#79 Ngamok

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 11:49 AM

View PostDeathlike, on 23 April 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:


It's really the 5SS you're comparing it to. Only the 9S+5SS has it available.


Exactly, which then gives you the option on the 5SS for all Energy (2E in the arm) + Missile (7+1) or the 9S with all three weapons types (6+2+1 one of the E being in the arm only but 2B as well).

Edited by Ngamok, 23 April 2014 - 11:50 AM.


#80 Roadkill

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:38 PM

View PostDeathlike, on 23 April 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

It's really the 5SS you're comparing it to. Only the 9S+5SS has it available.

Oops, right. The Thunderbolts tend to blur together for me. ;-)

Which is odd, because the 5SS is my most successful Thunderbolt purely because of those two high shoulder energy mounts. You'd think I'd be able to remember that! LOL





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