229 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Rant thread!

What The heck is up with the arms lock? I get n00bs and scrubs using it, but seriously, why else would you use it? Can't hold your arm and torsos together?

Just had an AWESOME match on Tourmaline. We were down a LOT. I manage to get 5 kills on my ct cored Orion, and trash their last match, a ShadowHawk before going down.

Our last mech? A BoarsHead with no armor breaches. Our guy retreats to the turrets, in full zoom the whole time, and the trashed Shad hunts him down. Our team is thinking...cool. we got this, hard fought win.

Except our Boars Head had his lasers in arms lock. Could barely track the other mech. And after an excruciating 2 minutes of fat guy circling the fox, dies, costing us the game. GG JoolNoret, you fought well, our fatty should have won, but your skill was better than his. (And hey you killed me too, though I was trashed by the time we met. Still well done, sir!)

Moral of the story.. Arms Lock is for bads, and if you use it you should feel bad. Against mobile opponents, you will lose, almost every time.

Rant over.

Edited by Egomane, 24 April 2014 - 01:15 PM.
No, this is not a name and shame! :)

[sgt kiesel]

Example of good arm lock usage:
Arm lock off, use the increased torso twist speed to get a bead on the target.
Tthen hold down shift to toggle arm lock on while firing, & instantly snap my arm lasers in line with my torso lasers and get precision damage.
Then arm lock off again while I twist to cover my CT...

Refusing to ever use arm lock is just as stupid as having it on all the time.
back before arm lock was turned on by default, people were complaining about noobs never using it and spreading hits all over the place.

What PGI needs is a decent tutorial with voice-over to explain the controls for people to lazy to read their key bindings.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

I know I've been seeing a bunch of arm lock lately. My best guess is that a bunch of people are playing who either haven't in a good while, or who are new, and either way don't realize that arm lock is a thing (and couldn't be bothered to run the tutorial).

I can understand abusing the toggle to get instant pinpoint precision for snap-fired high-alpha jump shots, but nobody in his right mind runs arm lock all the time if he is aware that it can be turned off.

[Bishop Steiner]

sgt kiesel, on 21 April 2014 - 10:35 PM, said:

Example of good arm lock usage:
Arm lock off, use the increased torso twist speed to get a bead on the target.
Tthen hold down shift to toggle arm lock on while firing, & instantly snap my arm lasers in line with my torso lasers and get precision damage.
Then arm lock off again while I twist to cover my CT...

Refusing to ever use arm lock is just as stupid as having it on all the time.
back before arm lock was turned on by default, people were complaining about noobs never using it and spreading hits all over the place.

What PGI needs is a decent tutorial with voice-over to explain the controls for people to lazy to read their key bindings.

odd. I never use it. And I wreck face just fine. Aiming. It's not that hard. Take that match. I get CT cored REAL early due to a lot of lrms and high alphas. Use my big honking 340 to get some cover. Instead of going head on, I attack the edges. We are down by 7 mechs in no time. I kill 5 in a row with arm mounted SRMs and nearly take out the last, before his streaks cored out the last of my CT.

Arm lock is a crutch. And it teaches people bad habits. I think it was one of the worst additions to the game beside ghost heat. Yes it simplifies the intro to the game, but for the scrubs, they never get past using it, all the time, and for the "L33T" it's just one more mechanic to be abused in a way never intended.

Maybe Paul can add GH to it.... seems his only answer to fix anything,.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 21 April 2014 - 10:44 PM.

[I C Wiener]

I would agree that arm lock isn't necessarily a noob option if you know how to use it and when not to use it.

Basically what kiesel said.

[OneEyed Jack]

sgt kiesel, on 21 April 2014 - 10:35 PM, said:

Refusing to ever use arm lock is just as stupid as having it on all the time.
back before arm lock was turned on by default, people were complaining about noobs never using it and spreading hits all over the place.

I don't recall ever seeing a single complaint that noobs needed to use arm lock more.

[Morang]

I use arm lock often. Both for sniping and for making attack runs against large targets when I pilot light striker. I'd like to have it as a toggle. For now, as it's not, I have it off by default, because I'd rather have one finger occupied switching it on when sniping or maiming enemy heavies, than switching it off in twitchy dogfight.


PS Topicstarter, by your description of the fight you can as well say that zoom is bad and using it one should feel bad.

Edited by Morang, 21 April 2014 - 11:31 PM.

[meteorol]

I regulary play with arm lock activated... on my Banshee 3E

To be fair, you never know if this atlas pilot started playing the game 2 hours ago. If someone plays with armlock and zoomed in all time, chances are pretty high he would have lost that battle even without armlock.

IMO it is a huge problem that the game doesn't really tell you about armlock and it is activated by default. While the concept of MWOs two crosshairs is learned in 3 seconds if you know about it, new players only get to know it if they spectate others and get suspicious.

[Aresye]

I guess I'll play the other side of the coin here.

I have arm-lock on by default, and very rarely turn it off.

Why?

Because most of the time you're facing your opponent when you fire, and you want that convergence with both torso and arm-mounted weapons. The obvious exceptions are when you're being circled by an opponent faster than you can turn, or trying to hit outside your torso's firing arc.

Both exceptions I find to be more rare than facing a target within limits of your arms and torso together. I've tried both sides, and with arm-lock off by default I found I was pressing the button to activate it far more often than I was actually utilizing the benefits it gave me.

I also prefer more of a long range role, so having arm-lock on also smooths out my shots for longer range targets. I haven't had any issues with aiming both long and short range with it on, with the exceptions where I'm circled faster than I can turn or trying to hit somebody very high/low, in which case I can easily deactivate it for the brief period I actually need it for.

[KharnZor]

Never used it. Don't intend on using it.
I don't see it as something that's needed in the game at all tbh.

[Curccu]

If you don't have weapons in arms is there any real bonus for NOT having your arms locked?
Or lets say I have CTF-3D with dual gauss... 1 in torso and 1 in arm, why not to use arm lock? when and IF I need to shoot only that arm mounted gauss I can push that shift-key.

sgt kiesel, on 21 April 2014 - 10:35 PM, said:

Arm lock off, use the increased torso twist speed to get a bead on the target.

I don't think torso twist speed is increased when arm-lock is off, your pilot just turns his head also when turning and it might feel faster? or prove me wrong .
(at least it shouldn't be faster)

[Bishop Steiner]

Aresye, on 21 April 2014 - 11:38 PM, said:

I guess I'll play the other side of the coin here.

I have arm-lock on by default, and very rarely turn it off.

Why?

Because most of the time you're facing your opponent when you fire, and you want that convergence with both torso and arm-mounted weapons. The obvious exceptions are when you're being circled by an opponent faster than you can turn, or trying to hit outside your torso's firing arc.

Both exceptions I find to be more rare than facing a target within limits of your arms and torso together. I've tried both sides, and with arm-lock off by default I found I was pressing the button to activate it far more often than I was actually utilizing the benefits it gave me.

I also prefer more of a long range role, so having arm-lock on also smooths out my shots for longer range targets. I haven't had any issues with aiming both long and short range with it on, with the exceptions where I'm circled faster than I can turn or trying to hit somebody very high/low, in which case I can easily deactivate it for the brief period I actually need it for.

kinda surprised a wolf would need a crutch. Believe it or not, it is hardly needed. I certainly never have. Then again I never felt the need to adopt poptarting either. Losing your range of fire, for something that simply learning battlefield awareness and good reflexes should provide?

Curccu, on 21 April 2014 - 11:50 PM, said:

If you don't have weapons in arms is there any real bonus for NOT having your arms locked?
Or lets say I have CTF-3D with dual gauss... 1 in torso and 1 in arm, why not to use arm lock? when and IF I need to shoot only that arm mounted gauss I can push that shift-key.


I don't think torso twist speed is increased when arm-lock is off, your pilot just turns his head also when turning and it might feel faster? or prove me wrong .
(at least it shouldn't be faster)

So SJR needs exploits and crutches? I don't believe that. Wow. How did you survive in the pre armlock days? (I get in comp 12, where everyone is using every exploit under the sun, you do it to, but seriously, it ain't nothing I'd brag about, lol)

crutch. and teaches bad habits, plain and simple.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 21 April 2014 - 11:59 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Simple enough, people do not know any better. There is no explanation what arm lock is in game settings screen even if people do look into there. Players new to MW franchise are used to your average FPS games, where there is only one crosshair. No interactive tutorial for new players - new players have no clue. Elo matchmaker that constantly puts new players with/against 2 year veterans - veterans are greatly frustrated with newbs, reluctant to help newbs in game over and over and over again. That said, if a beat up Hawk killed your Atlas on your base then he'd probably done that anyway armlock or not.

[Bishop Steiner]

PhoenixFire55, on 22 April 2014 - 12:07 AM, said:

Simple enough, people do not know any better. There is no explanation what arm lock is in game settings screen even if people do look into there. Players new to MW franchise are used to your average FPS games, where there is only one crosshair. No interactive tutorial for new players - new players have no clue. Elo matchmaker that constantly puts new players with/against 2 year veterans - veterans are greatly frustrated with newbs, reluctant to help newbs in game over and over and over again. That said, if a beat up Hawk killed your Atlas on your base then he'd probably done that anyway armlock or not.

Naw, the Atlas had him dead to rights a dozen times...if he could have moved his arms. I'm sure it was a n00b player who thought he could go "P2W" by buying the biggest Hero, but seriously...... it was bad. Wish I had recorded it for posterity as a good training video for n00bs why "arm lock is bad" (yeah, for experienced players it can be a useful exploit.... but it should not be a default. Seriously, within 5 matches I figured out torso and arm movement. How much do we need to coddle modern players? Has CoD really dumbed people down that much?)

[Appogee]

Obviously, that Boars Head in that circumstance should have unlocked his arms.

However, I reject entirely the proposal that ''arm lock is bad'' and ''people who use arm lock are noobs".

There are many circumstances where arm lock is more tactically useful than having them unlocked... for example, to instantly focus fire on one enemy location, instead of having damage spray across two while the torso reticle catches up with the arms.

To get the best of both options, I leave arm lock on but have a key under my pinky which disengages arm lock when I need the additional flexibility of free arms. So, I am focusing fire when it's to my advantage, and gaining extra reach with my arms when I need it.

I would go so far as to say that the splashing of damage caused by leaving arms permanently unlocked is more likely to be a bigger issue more of the time than the inconvenience of lowering my pinky to unlock them when I need to unlock them.

Edited by Appogee, 22 April 2014 - 12:28 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Appogee, on 22 April 2014 - 12:18 AM, said:

I would go so far as to say that the splashing of damage caused by leaving arms unlocked would probably be a bigger issue most of the time than the inconvenience of lowering my pinky to unlock them when I need them unlocked.

well, not to be a jerk (well, more than usual, lol)...but ya know... L2A?

(seriously..... I can't be the only person able to compete in this game without it, right..well me and Kharnzor......)

or is everyone so dialed into the poptart meta that the brawl, where free arm movement is ESSENTIAL is an afterthought? (which is in itself a sad commentary for this game)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 April 2014 - 12:22 AM.

[Demuder]

I believe that if there was a "real" toggle for arm lock instead of a push-to-toggle one, people would be using it a lot more. I find myself forgetting to untoggle it when I switch from my Banshees to my Orions and most of the time I am just too bored to go into the settings menu and toggle it.

Besides that, being left handed, my choice for shortcut keys is rather limited, so push-to-toggle is not useful at all in my case.

[Bishop Steiner]

dimstog, on 22 April 2014 - 12:22 AM, said:

I believe that if there was a "real" toggle for arm lock instead of a push-to-toggle one, people would be using it a lot more. I find myself forgetting to untoggle it when I switch from my Banshees to my Orions and most of the time I am just too bored to go into the settings menu and toggle it.

Besides that, being left handed, my choice for shortcut keys is rather limited, so push-to-toggle is not useful at all in my case.

I believe if they removed the crutch, the learning curve would be higher, but players in general would end up being better, TBH. Armlock to me is only about 10x the crutch coolshot is. (at least with that, the heatscale is genuinely borked.)

[Rubidiy]

agree with Curccu. Arm lock should not be judged by newcomers, who apparently don't even know about the checkbox in options.
It is completely up to pilot to decide how to use it. You can keep armlock by default and unbind arms with Shift or Alt key, for example. Or you can disable armlock and use it by pressing a specific key only while firing alfa-strikes. Main difference is in acceleration of your mech. You can set a high mouse sensitivity with armlock, but it will negatively affect your precision.

I don't use armlock because it allows me to see targets long before my crosshair reached them after a big degree turn. My aim is much quicker and more precise without armlock, so I use Shift key to lock my weapons before i shoot.

If you're a really good Atlas pilot, not only you should not use armlock. You also should use unbinded arms aim to shoot down circling light mechs. It seems a bit difficult, but in the end you'll notice how much more effective you are against lights with your lasers.

[oldradagast]

I have seen so many mechs die to arm lock it's not even funny. It's always, as the OP lists, some big, slow mech with arm lock turned on trying to track something fast and failing to do so thanks to the arm lock.

I fully understand how it is useful on certain builds, or on mechs without arm weapons (some Banshees, etc.), but having it turned on by default just ensures new players will get ganked by lights. And, of course, the game doesn't bother to explain it anywhere, because that makes sense...

Edited by oldradagast, 22 April 2014 - 05:56 AM.