31 replies to this topic

[Alaskan Nobody]

Shatterpoint, on 22 April 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

Do the lances actually mean something then?

They don't mean a whole lot, and at the same time they mean an awful lot.

IE: lances are pretty much randomly generated, but you get an extra set of chat for just your lance (IE: T for everyone, Y for team, and U for lance chats)

Also much easier to coordinate with your lance, as they are marked in a different color.

Shatterpoint, on 22 April 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

It's not something I've ever considered before and the "within a minute your alpha lance completely disintegrates." comment made me curious.

If there is a 4 man premade in your team, they get Alpha lance - which is part of why seeing alpha lance disintegrate is so worrisome for most people.

Keep in mind, the other teams groupings are scrambled until the end of match scoreboard.

[maniacos]

Shatterpoint, on 22 April 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

It's not something I've ever considered before and the "within a minute your alpha lance completely disintegrates." comment made me curious.

I think he just means, that not even the lances stick together and work after a plan. As soon as all systems are norminal, the lances spread out like they try to get away from each other as far as possible instead of following a plan. 1 minute later you see the blue all scattered around the map and taken out one after another because they don't use brains.

[Shatterpoint]

Thanks for the reply, I noticed what I figured were premades (4 guys usually from the same house) sitting in alpha sometimes.
I got curious because if they're not there I end up sat atop the Alpha lance list and never gave it a second thought, just some weird rng placings or something.

I'll stick with the "They don't mean a whole lot" part from my perspective then, as a pugger I don't expect any coordination and trying my luck at herding cats with a lance chat doesn't sound fun.

[Flaming oblivion]

Disregard a team upset me wanted to punch a kitten wasn't being kind anger talking. And with regards to below pointless i'm still new I get punished by being forced to play with low elo players, where the hill is god the only place one must go. So if I have to go there some1 better get locks cant do it myself in all situations because of the min range I'm bound by. So yes its the teams fault every build has weaknesses , Needing others to get locks because generally a brawl is the last place I want to be is mine, The team should cover my holes as I would for them.

Edited by Flaming oblivion, 22 April 2014 - 07:53 PM.

[Wildstreak]

Flaming oblivion, on 22 April 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

I'm pretty angry now I just left a fight having done 37 damage because of my teams absolute incompetence... entire enemy at the bottom of the hill on alpine peaks we had a group at the top and a few at the bottom getting locks for the missile boats everytime I fired the lock dropped .. .till in the finish I told them im done you don't want me to be useful im doing nothing. and waited to die. STOP ONLY CARING asbout yourself IF you make part of your team useless doesn't matter how much damage u do how many kills you get , Its still YOUR fault you lost.

You're kidding right?
You blame the team for this?
Given what info you provided, the few at the bottom WITH THE ENEMY were probably dodging weapon fire so, yeah, they cannot keep locks for you.
The ones up top including you were clearly trying to hide behind terrain when snipers were not sniping.
I don't see how the whole team except you are at fault. I have seen the similar scenario play out on Alpine plenty of times.

Want to know the best way to fix it?
Tell your team at match start you want to fight elsewhere.
If you wind up in this 'usual' situation, tell them to go somewhere else then go there yourself.
That is how you break up the 'usual.'

How do you think I always manage to get any team I am on dropping into Terra Therma to avoid the center? I always encourage flanking through chat. Almost never fails.

[AlmightyAeng]

Shatterpoint, on 22 April 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

Thanks for the reply, I noticed what I figured were premades (4 guys usually from the same house) sitting in alpha sometimes.
I got curious because if they're not there I end up sat atop the Alpha lance list and never gave it a second thought, just some weird rng placings or something.

I'll stick with the "They don't mean a whole lot" part from my perspective then, as a pugger I don't expect any coordination and trying my luck at herding cats with a lance chat doesn't sound fun.

If you're solo pugging and dropping in alpha lance, it's like the premade is only a 3-man, then you were likely the 'fill-in.'

There's been SOME discussion on the forums about whether alpha, bravo and charlie lance have any relation to higher, middle, and lower ELO buckets on a team...but nothing confirmed.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Ghost Badger, on 23 April 2014 - 06:25 AM, said:

If you're solo pugging and dropping in alpha lance, it's like the premade is only a 3-man, then you were likely the 'fill-in.'

Or alternatively, that there is no pre-made (which usually suggests there isn't one on the other side)

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Rouken, on 22 April 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

I dunno. This whole "working together to reach our mutual goal of victory" thing seems pretty sketchy.

It's been called out as OP. I hear it's getting nerfed next week.

[/sarcasm]

That's been the problem with PUG matching in MWO, though, hasn't it? How to get a bunch of people to work together, when they've never worked together with one another before, and probably have little to no experience doing so in this context?

Once in a while, someone will take company command and throw-down an order or two. I try to follow those. Sometimes they work, sometimes they derp.

Not sure if 12 is too many, or if it's not enough, to invoke herd behavior. Sometimes it works, sometimes it derps.

This much seems clear: the mentality MAY be present, but the tools are clearly not, to enable and support teamwork in-game. We've got a LONG way to go to get there.

[Androas]

TheRAbbi, on 23 April 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

It's been called out as OP. I hear it's getting nerfed next week.

[/sarcasm]

That's been the problem with PUG matching in MWO, though, hasn't it? How to get a bunch of people to work together, when they've never worked together with one another before, and probably have little to no experience doing so in this context?

Once in a while, someone will take company command and throw-down an order or two. I try to follow those. Sometimes they work, sometimes they derp.

Not sure if 12 is too many, or if it's not enough, to invoke herd behavior. Sometimes it works, sometimes it derps.

This much seems clear: the mentality MAY be present, but the tools are clearly not, to enable and support teamwork in-game. We've got a LONG way to go to get there.

Ahh i disagree somewhat, You do not to know the other in and out to work together, you simply need to check what is happening arround you and respond to it.

A lot of people are just monofocusing on what is happening to THEM, and ignore what is happening arround them, and even, what the other team is doing.

People can be pretty simple in times, like "I go to hit That enem atlas NOW"

And anything else goes out of the window, so they run throught the line of Fire of two allies, blocking the retreat of a third, to run past 2 perfect targets, to finaly fire that one Shot at the enemy atlas, which misses.

The whole "problem" starts with a simple habbit you have or dont have, its much like in Starcraft 2 one of the major differences between an newby and an vet,

one does cycle his eyes arround his Screen, while he does stuff, so he constantly monitors:

Lance mates Health
Heath level
Ammo count
Minnimap
Own damge taken
enemy paperdoll

and reacts to the whole of the situation, as it unfolds.

Most people, just look at the "flashy main part" of the screen, which only tells one third of the story, that is happening arround you.

To be a better teamplayer, one should simply start with, using the information at his disposal, to respond to the occuring Situations arround him.

And bam, 80% better teamwork.

I mean, you can clearly see, if your Teammate gets attacked by Two enemys, so you move in and help him out,
no need for much communication beside, watching things unfold.


And about Orders from others, yeah i follow those too, if my experience tells me, the Order will get us blown to pieces, i tend to suggest adjustments, but i really try to encourage players trying themself as commanders, we really need more of those, and to get good and experienced ones, we need to encourage the bad and inexperienced ones to take it up time and time again, so they can learn

Edited by Androas, 23 April 2014 - 10:07 AM.

[jper4]

Flaming oblivion, on 22 April 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

I have to admit it seems to happen a lot where you start a fight and within a minute your alpha lance completely disintegrates.

I think its a case of pre mades thinking there PuG's are worthless and the opposing teams PuG's are worthless. So they run into hell thinking there god and get exterminated.

Kind of funny when I've got over the initial ffs lost another lance the first minute of battle frustration.

well sometimes on certain maps like say Torumaline or terra one lance is off by itself compared to the other two so unless they can rejoin quickly (or decided to grab say kappa on tourmaline) ther'es a better than average chance the other team can get two lances there before the lone lance can get back with it's teammates and they get stomped.

in theory that should leave a 8 v4 on the opposite side of the map but i've seldom seen any situation where both sides lose their furthest lance in the same match so i tend to wonder what's happening what the other side is thinking when/if someone actually says "8 at kappa" while the other 8 guys are having snipe wars with the other team's lone lance (on the other hand kudos to that lance for tying up twice their number of mechs and buying time for their 8 stompers to get back to their location to make it 12 v 8). you'd think someone might do some counting and say "hey maybe this is a good time to push those 4 guys before the others get back?"

[AlmightyAeng]

Androas, on 23 April 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

Ahh i disagree somewhat, You do not to know the other in and out to work together, you simply need to check what is happening arround you and respond to it.

A lot of people are just monofocusing on what is happening to THEM, and ignore what is happening arround them, and even, what the other team is doing.

People can be pretty simple in times, like "I go to hit That enem atlas NOW"

And anything else goes out of the window, so they run throught the line of Fire of two allies, blocking the retreat of a third, to run past 2 perfect targets, to finaly fire that one Shot at the enemy atlas, which misses.

The whole "problem" starts with a simple habbit you have or dont have, its much like in Starcraft 2 one of the major differences between an newby and an vet,

one does cycle his eyes arround his Screen, while he does stuff, so he constantly monitors:

Lance mates Health
Heath level
Ammo count
Minnimap
Own damge taken
enemy paperdoll

and reacts to the whole of the situation, as it unfolds.

Most people, just look at the "flashy main part" of the screen, which only tells one third of the story, that is happening arround you.

To be a better teamplayer, one should simply start with, using the information at his disposal, to respond to the occuring Situations arround him.

And bam, 80% better teamwork.

I mean, you can clearly see, if your Teammate gets attacked by Two enemys, so you move in and help him out,
no need for much communication beside, watching things unfold.


And about Orders from others, yeah i follow those too, if my experience tells me, the Order will get us blown to pieces, i tend to suggest adjustments, but i really try to encourage players trying themself as commanders, we really need more of those, and to get good and experienced ones, we need to encourage the bad and inexperienced ones to take it up time and time again, so they can learn

So...when a PuG starts acting like a psychic and automatically channels pre-made-like decisions...he succeeds? Lol.

Edit: Just joshing you a bit. But seriously, most individuals in pre-mades do that already...add in the bonus of communication and it's even more effective.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 23 April 2014 - 12:03 PM.

[Androas]

Ghost Badger, on 23 April 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

So...when a PuG starts acting like a psychic and automatically channels pre-made-like decisions...he succeeds? Lol.

Edit: Just joshing you a bit. But seriously, most individuals in pre-mades do that already...add in the bonus of communication and it's even more effective.

Yes but everybody can do it,
situational awareness is simply the first step to good teamwork,

i sometimes work with some of the guys my father hires from time to time, total strangers,
yet those people, the profesionals they are, have a perfect sense of teamwork, we dont need to talk much
during work, its just everybody knowing our Goal to reach on that given day, an having the awareness to help each other,
when help is needed.

Same concept works in MWO,
train your situational awareness, and you are allready 2/3 there,
especially during combat, communication can even get in the way,

Example 1:
My Lance mate is under fire from an Enemy, he asks for help in voice,
we all now check our map, to see where he is, as i am next to him,
i respond, that he should move towards me, and i help him out.

Thats allready at least 2 seconds by now.

Now he moves towards me, and tells me, that his target has only weapons in his left arm left, and that the arm is allready red
but still has armor up.

So this, from him speaking, till i get the information, and have been thinking it trough, is at least another 2 seconds.

he, by chance, took by now a lot of damage, while we where squabbling.

In reality, i give you that, the discussion would be shorter, but still, a few seconds would go by for it.

If i just, regularly, check the stated info screens, i would see:
His Health is dropping,
i am next to him,
he would know the same

we, naturaly, would move to each other,
while i would punch in his target, and, while still moving toward him, asset the situation, and see what i would have to do.

Saves maybe 1-2 seconds, but tbh, its more often then not 1-2 seconds that make the difference.

And if you do this simple:

Your paperdoll -> Minnimap -> Heat scale -> Weapon status -> Target paperdoll -> Lance status

You gather information all the time, you know whats going on all the time, you can respond to changing situations,
BIG plus, the circle includes the chatt, so you can even see infos gathered there,
and all the while, you have the center of your screen in the corner of your eye anyway, so you wont lose out on that.

If you do that every, lets say 4-5 seconds, you will improve A LOT on the teamwork front.