50 replies to this topic

[Charons Little Helper]

With 3/3/3/3 coming in a week - I'm wondering how mech balance will shift.

Of note - before I begin - this is pure theory - which I enjoy speculating about. I am in no way assuming I'll be 100% right. (maybe 98.6% or so )

First - I think that the slower mediums (slower Cents & Hunchbacks) will get an indirect buff. As it stands - mediums really need to be going at least 100kph or you might as well play a heavy. However, with 3/3/3/3 a medium with somewhat bigger guns might be worth bringing. (or is more durable with a standard engine)

I also think that streaks will get an indirect buff, simply because the average mech will be lighter, and streaks are more effective the lighter the mech they face is.

I think that the faster heavies & assaults will be less valuable - simply because you'd be using up a slot which would otherwise be used by a beefier mech (and/or more firepower) while your team's fast mechs can be supplied by the lighter slots.

Finally - I think that laser brawlers will be buffed slightly. Currently - one problem with a laser based brawler is that they often will overheat before they can finish off an assault, but with assaults being rarer... (oh - and laser brawlers mix well with a couple SRMs, and hopefully SRM HSR is finally fixed in the upcoming patch as well)

Any other theories?

Edited by Egomane, 22 April 2014 - 01:24 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

We'll be seeing Pocket Assaults (slow, up-gunned Heavies), Pocket Heavies (slow, up-gunned Mediums), and Fast Mediums (fast, under-gunned Mediums) that try to emulate the performance of mech classes that are already over-full.

[AlmightyAeng]

Charons Little Helper, on 22 April 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

Any other theories?

Yup! I'm guessing pretty much the exact opposite, lol. I think we'll see more fast mediums because they KNOW that there are lights for them to hunt. I think we'll see more fast-flanker heavies because they know they aren't going to see a group of 6-8 assaults and movement will be more important than ever (and then their medium laserboats can support them better).

Fast assaults? Eh...what's fast? My 64 kph Atlas is fast...for an Atlas...but anything that isn't an awesome doesn't do more than jog lazily. I don't see assault format changing much, other than maybe seeing more D-DC because if YOU don't take one...it's less likely someone else will to make up for it.

Laser brawlers are more laser 'strikers.' They excel in that role...and will continue to do so when played correctly.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Medium Fire Support Mechs are going to become much more viable, and much more common.
Expect to see more Griffins and Shadowhawks.

If SRMs come back hard, expect Centurions.

[Pygar]

Yes, there will be a small increase of popularity for Medium mechs, and some indirect "buffs" by way of overall tonnage in games coming down.

The more interesting effect I am waiting to see, is the increased pressure in groups to ensure that if somebody is flying a heavy or an assault that they are a worthy enough pilot to be taking up that mech slot, as well as how much pressure it puts on all pilots that have to switch to a "plan b" mech when they can't get a slot for their usual "go to" mech. (Me personally, I spent much of the last month making sure I have viable mech options in all 4 weight classes....I have the bases covered, but I'm not exactly good with all of them- we'll see how long it takes before I am forced to fly something totally off the wall for me because the MM can't slot me in to what I really want to fly)

Edited by Pygar, 22 April 2014 - 01:14 PM.

[Screech]

Charons Little Helper, on 22 April 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

I also think that streaks will get an indirect buff, simply because the average mech will be lighter, and streaks are more effective the lighter the mech they face is.

Worried about a vicious circle here. Rise of SSRM will lead to most light using ECM. Overall increase of ECM will cause LRM to disappear. Since LRM and SRM then garbage any missile point then use SSRM(1.5t Bap for Assaults and Heavies not real issue when SSRM are such a low weight weapon system.

If SSRM become the default missile brawling meta it will be a rocky ride.

[CDLord HHGD]

I'm looking forward to 3/3/3/3 but would like to know if this is configurable for private matches. For purely lore reasons, I'd like to see a 3/6/2/1 (to emphasize the proliferation of Mediums and the rarity of Assaults). Of course, this is for private matches only, general matchmaking requires a more generic approach, hence 3/3/3/3.

[Gas Guzzler]

Pygar, on 22 April 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

Yes, there will be a small increase of popularity for Medium mechs, and some indirect "buffs" by way of overall tonnage in games coming down.

The more interesting effect I am waiting to see, is the increased pressure in groups to ensure that if somebody is flying a heavy or an assault that they are a worthy enough pilot to be taking up that mech slot, as well as how much pressure it puts on all pilots that have to switch to a "plan b" mech when they can't get a slot for their usual "go to" mech. (Me personally, I spent much of the last month making sure I have viable mech options in all 4 weight classes....I have the bases covered, but I'm not exactly good with all of them- we'll see how long it takes before I am forced to fly something totally off the wall for me because the MM can't slot me in to what I really want to fly)

A little off topic but what has really peaked my curiosity is how the launch module is going to facilitate choosing which mechs to drop in. Just selecting from a list of mechs? Or a predetermined set of options? I'd like to see at least 2 options per class allowed....

I'm still mostly going to play whatever mechs I like given the available slots. Phoenix mediums I expect to see a lot of. I think we will still see meta Victors, CTF-3Ds and Highlanders just the same....

Anyway though I think the biggest change we will see is an increase in the number of medium mechs at higher ELO levels where there typically isn't many.

[Pygar]

cdlord, on 22 April 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

I'm looking forward to 3/3/3/3 but would like to know if this is configurable for private matches. For purely lore reasons, I'd like to see a 3/6/2/1 (to emphasize the proliferation of Mediums and the rarity of Assaults). Of course, this is for private matches only, general matchmaking requires a more generic approach, hence 3/3/3/3.

In the paid private matches maybe, but not the free ones. In the paid matches they have at least said that we will be able to determine how many mechs per side, but not sure if they have granular options for what types of mechs too. (Let's hope, that would be neat...and I think they should skew the weight restrictions even more towards Medium mechs too.)

[Jman5]

The biggest improvement is simply going to be the reduction in average team weight for assault and skirmish. So many of my games are top heavy. In case you think it's over-exaggerated here is the mech distribution for 5 games I played solo. It's ordered: assault-heavy-medium-light. Also keep in mind that I was playing a medium in all 5 games so the medium value is actually skewed heavily.

Game1:
2-7-3-0
5-1-1-5

Game2
7-2-1-2
5-4-2-1

Game3
3-5-2-2
4-5-3-0

Game4
5-5-2-0
7-3-2-0

Game5
4-6-1-1
7-4-1-0

An average of about 9 heavy+assault will change overnight to 6 per side. Taking out those big mechs is going to be even more critical for teams. Also carrying your weight in those heavier roles is going to make or break teams much more than before. Before if you had a bad assault or two it wasn't such a big deal because your team had 6 or 7 other assaults usually. Now they are going to be a much more significant portion of your team's total tonnage.

I don't think mech choice within a chassis is really going to change all that much. The developers have said that the new team restrictions will also come with a weight matching system as well. So bringing a bunch of lower ton mechs shouldn't handicap your team. We will see how that pans out though.

Edited by Jman5, 22 April 2014 - 01:42 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

The one problem with that "need", Jman, is that it will also put skill at a premium. In a lot of games, you could carry the PUGs if some of them had half a clue cause your 4 man team was set up to ravage everything. Now, that 4 man group that you're in is going to have to play a lot more concervatively because you can't hope for another 4 man on your side and you don't want to end up forcing the issue only to get slagged. I actually see a lot of organized 4 man teams taking the heavier Mediums and Heavies and leaving the lights and assaults to the PUGs. Your more versatile, faster, and can up-gun without losing too much in the process. If you die, your team just lost a smaller mech. But, if you die and take out a heavy or assault, you just won.

[Deathlike]

Depending on the Elo bucket, I suspect the TTK will change in some way since you know the weight class compositions of the teams.

What will most likely occur in the upper Elo buckets is that the premade AND the upper weight classes are EXPECTED to carry for their weight (aka you doing < triple digits in damage while in an Atlas will put more blame on your performance).

At the lower brackets, few will care/notice this.

Expect all premades in Alpha Lance as a result.

[Murzao]

Basically, a premade of 3 mediums configured correctly will carry every match. I know when me and 2 buds went with the 125kph 3LL CDM3M with 3ECM and a 81 alpha it only took 1 deathstar volley to put an assault out of commission if not kill him instantly if we got him in the back. That was basically the entire reason LLs ghost heat was set at 3 lol.

Or 3 Centurions, still the best mech in game.

I know I'll be charging into the enemy because only 3 assaults? gtfo! easymode time.

My only pet peeve is when pugs die right away to meta premades and do no damage...thanks for nothin! Can't really complain because a lot of premades also die really fast and do no damage...they just cower together longer.

[Charons Little Helper]

Ghost Badger, on 22 April 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

Yup! I'm guessing pretty much the exact opposite, lol. I think we'll see more fast mediums because they KNOW that there are lights for them to hunt.

I'm not saying there won't be fast mediums - but most mediums you see now are fast mediums. We'll continue to see those, I just think that there'll be room for beefier mediums as well.

Murzao, on 22 April 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

Or 3 Centurions, still the best mech in game.

While not bad - I think that you are nearly alone in thinking that.

[meteorol]

Murzao, on 22 April 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

Basically, a premade of 3 mediums configured correctly will carry every match. I know when me and 2 buds went with the 125kph 3LL CDM3M with 3ECM and a 81 alpha it only took 1 deathstar volley to put an assault out of commission if not kill him instantly if we got him in the back. That was basically the entire reason LLs ghost heat was set at 3 lol.

Or 3 Centurions, still the best mech in game.

I know I'll be charging into the enemy because only 3 assaults? gtfo! easymode time.

My only pet peeve is when pugs die right away to meta premades and do no damage...thanks for nothin! Can't really complain because a lot of premades also die really fast and do no damage...they just cower together longer.

That post was hilarious in so many ways. Always nice to see guys having their own, very special view on stuff.

[Joseph Mallan]

Well thanks to PGI's give ways I now have a Mech in each Class... Though I feel I should get a Griffin(Lyran) instead of a Centurion (FedCom)... but that is a C-bill grind away. Now I have 1/1/1/2.

[Demuder]

I expect very long queues and lots of idle/disconnected players as a result. Then again, I may be totally wrong about that since we have no metrics about the playing population.

[CDLord HHGD]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 April 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

Well thanks to PGI's give ways I now have a Mech in each Class... Though I feel I should get a Griffin(Lyran) instead of a Centurion (FedCom)... but that is a C-bill grind away. Now I have 1/1/1/2.

FedCom is Lyran in reference to the Federated Commonwealth. What you meant to refer to was the Federated Suns.

Federated Suns + Lyran Commonwealth + Victors ascendance to the throne = Federated Commonwealth.

[Agent of Change]

dimstog, on 23 April 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

I expect very long queues and lots of idle/disconnected players as a result. Then again, I may be totally wrong about that since we have no metrics about the playing population.

I think you will be correct. I think that even distribution is probably a bad idea and won't last very long (or shouldn't but will drag on just because). I think there will be a whole bunch of heavy and assault mech players not able to find matches quickly. i think medium mech players are likely to be the only people who will consistently get matches every time they drop.

Encouraging diversity by giving people a reason to use good spread of mech in their drops is a good plan, Forcing players into a fixed distribution is a mediocre plan at best. But if you want to be paranoid it certainly seems like a good way to encourage people to buy into those private matches (which i'm still wondering why they even bothered with seeing as how 84% of MWO players are solo Puggers. It seems to me given those numbers that a paid mode designed specifically to cater to premade groups would not be a money maker right?).

[Joseph Mallan]

cdlord, on 23 April 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

FedCom is Lyran in reference to the Federated Commonwealth. What you meant to refer to was the Federated Suns.

Federated Suns + Lyran Commonwealth + Victors ascendance to the throne = Federated Commonwealth.

Didnt wanna use FedRat!