Jump to content

- - - - -

Koniving's Tactical Tips To Mwo

Guide

80 replies to this topic

#1 Koniving

    Welcoming Committee

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Guide
  • The Guide
  • 23,384 posts

Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:11 PM

Small disclaimer.
Spoiler


I decided to start a rather basic little setup of strategic and/or tactical tips geared at sparking more team-oriented gameplay from players new and old, PUG (pick-up-gamer) or otherwise. A little one stop shop if you will for simple, sometimes shorter and to the point bits of help. I know right? Koniving short and to the point? Impossible!

My goal is to come up with one at a minimum of once a month and a maximum of once a day. They will be posted here and then edited into this starting post for easy tracking.

Remember that many of these tips are useful not only in MWO but in any endeavor you may participate in and should be useful whether you're new or think you know everything. Many of them are inspired by several television series, games, military training, personal experience or other sources and are adapted to fit MWO. Though I confess that many which appear here will be inspired specifically from the show Burn Notice (the Burn Notice marathon is what inspired me to do this).

That said, let's begin.

The First Tip: Blitzkrieg.
Spoiler


The Second Tip: My terms, not yours. (Taking control of the field)
Spoiler


The Third Tip: A Light Plight. (Being pursued and a fool's chase.)
Spoiler


The Fourth Tip: Paint is a weapon. (Intimidation.)
Spoiler


The Fifth Tip: Who do I shoot?
Spoiler


The Sixth Tip: Don't worry; I'm not going to hurt you..yet. (The friendly approach.)
Spoiler


The Seventh Tip: Bullet Proof Door. (So they got themselves some tough armor? Lets deal with that.)
Spoiler


The Eighth Tip: Tying Up Loose Ends.
Spoiler


The Ninth Tip: Reaction to Receiving a Scout's Information on Enemy positions.
Spoiler


Thank you. Good luck out there.

Discussion is welcome, but due to the nature of this thread I will keep my own responses to it very limited to little more than adding more tips (with videos if applicable) and then editing them in here.

Edited by Koniving, 02 January 2015 - 09:00 PM.


#2 Dragonfett

    Member

  • PipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 36 posts
  • LocationSolaris

Posted 23 April 2014 - 06:58 PM

Is it bad that I read that in Michael Westin's voice?

Very good by the way.

#3 Koniving

    Welcoming Committee

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Guide
  • The Guide
  • 23,384 posts

Posted 23 April 2014 - 07:27 PM

Not bad at all. I actually tried to 'keep' that voice going well beyond the quote. It'll be much easier with some of the shorter ones.

#4 IraqiWalker

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 9,682 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 23 April 2014 - 08:20 PM

View PostDragonfett, on 23 April 2014 - 06:58 PM, said:

Is it bad that I read that in Michael Westin's voice?

Very good by the way.


If by "Bad" you mean "excellent" then yes.

I like this guide, the blitz has been a very successful tactic in a lot of cases. Also, Koniving, I would recommend your video on Frozen City where you and your buddies go through tunnel and drop 3 enemy Misery mechs in the span of 40 seconds.

It's one of the best Examples of a blitz. Even though it wasn't coordinated across all teammates.

#5 JC Daxion

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 5,230 posts

Posted 23 April 2014 - 08:24 PM

I will add this... I hope it helps someone....... cause it would of really helped me.....


[color=#959595]Ill tell ya, these XL engines are getting to me..... I really wanted to get a XL315 for my Thunderbolt, but man.. almost 6m! But i still need my 3rd TB still. So this is my new way to deal with engines. If i wan't an XL or even an STD engine. i will make sure i am buying a mech to get the ones i can. It is far better to spend a few more C-bills, than waste them on a common engine that you will end up having a bunch of...[/color]

[color=#959595](an XL-280, and an STD 250 which i even bought 2 of!, and STD 260 are all engines i wasted money buying, and now i have a bunch of each because of mechs i have purchased since.)[/color]



[color=#959595]Mechs that have great engines.. The catapults have that great STD260, Any of the 55 ton XL engine mechs, get an Xl275, Jaeger DD a XL260, Stalker 5M XL255 (which is a perfect engine for a few great builds) Cataphract 3D XL-280, Atlas K XL-300(now with LRMs the way they are that dual AMS is pretty nice) Though for almost 6m less, you can get a XL-300 Trebuchet 3C or for someplace in the middle an Orion M (the most important part about which XL or STD mech you wan't to use for an engine, is what you think you would like to try in the future.. Kill two birds with one stone so to speak.. You know like Air strike on a raven but that is more like, heavily damage 4 mechs one bird......[/color]

[color=#959595]anyways.. do a search at this link, next time you want to buy an engine.. because it is worth the money in picking up the engine for a few extra credits.. and the best part is you have another mech to try out when you are ready..[/color]

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/


[color=#959595]another Pro tip, if you wanna toss a few bucks at a hero or champion, there are a lot of good ones, that come with great XL engines, so a perfect way to avoid a C-bill grind..[/color]

[color=#959595]Now if only PGI would give me back my 10 mill i wasted buying engines last summer i could almost buy that Atlas K! Most likely not...... So cheer's to you for not making the same mistake i did. Instead i need 14m more (after my 3M needed for the third thunderbolt, and doubles... almost there...) *sigh... At least i will have the second of my 3 atlas's for the master grind... Now I wonder.. If getting my ravens to master will net me that.. as i now i have that XL260 from the Jaeger DD i had been saving for a a few weeks back...[/color]

[color=#959595]Ohh the dilemmas of being a Mech warrior [/color]

#6 Koniving

    Welcoming Committee

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Guide
  • The Guide
  • 23,384 posts

Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:27 PM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 23 April 2014 - 08:20 PM, said:

Spoiler

It's one of the best Examples of a blitz. Even though it wasn't coordinated across all teammates.


Added it. It's ironic that I'd tell of the requirement to keep going and never stop once committed when I personally cost my team two lives in that video. One being my lancemate's who got singled out because I hesitated to keep going. The other being my own. We wouldn't have had nearly so much damage so early on had I not backed off. Thankfully I got back into gear quickly to keep our deaths down to only two. There will be many strategies and tactics added. Some team-wide strategies and some tactics to use in small group or one-on-one skirmishes.

Edited by Koniving, 23 April 2014 - 10:08 PM.


#7 Androas

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 155 posts

Posted 23 April 2014 - 10:18 PM

Uhm, nice work, but a tad more of thought on the Tactical parts of the "Blitzkrieg", as the term reffers to a broad strategie on how to wage war, and we face tactical decicions here.

The classical introduced Panzerblitz ("Tank lightning to translate it)

was so immensile sucesfull, because for the first time, Tanks had not been used as infantry support anymore, as it was done in the wars before.

Instead the armored forces, "blitzed" ahead of the slower infantry and support troops, moving, straight throught (and that is important) and behind the enemy lines, to turn there, and hammer them from their rear, while the infantry and support troops, keept pouring in at the enemys Front, forcing a battle at two sides.


Blitzkrieg itself is just "do it fast" but doesnt include the tactical parts of the dreaded panzerblitz.

If you would like to simulate this in MWO, you should not send your full Force behind the enemy, as you only create a normal battle, you simply attack from the rear, you should send in the heaviest, most menacing Mechs of your Team, to push straight throught the enemy Lines, throwing them into dissaray, maybe getting some to follow your hard hitters, while you keep your Lights and LRM Support at their front, storming in, and maybe you get a nice little memo, which would read like this:

To: Blue Teams commander

NUTS!

From: Red Teams Commander


*grin*

*edit* and dont understand this as trying to drag your work down, i actually like it, its a good solid posting, i just thought adding in those little tidbits about what the difference between the broader, strategycal term of Blitzkrieg, and how it looks on the Battlefield, on a tactical level, would be nice :(

Edited by Androas, 23 April 2014 - 10:22 PM.


#8 Koniving

    Welcoming Committee

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Guide
  • The Guide
  • 23,384 posts

Posted 23 April 2014 - 10:41 PM

(Well in that case, the video example is an unintentionally perfect Panzerblitz. The tanks [i.e. the big guys] went behind the enemy line and began attacking from the rear/side while the rest of the forces came in from the front line. Though the generic Blitzkrieg as Americans understand and use it is pretty much as I stated. As for the quote I used, it still holds true to the background you've given. Glad to learn more about it; I'll have to remember Panzerblitz!)

Edited by Koniving, 23 April 2014 - 10:42 PM.


#9 IraqiWalker

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 9,682 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 23 April 2014 - 11:51 PM

To be honest, most people make the mistake of considering Blitzkrieg a strategic level method, when in fact it is a tactical method of operation. In the case of WWII, The Blitzkrieg was intended to hit one country at a time, to strike one front with overwhelming speed.

However, tacticians like Rommel and Guderian extrapolated it into the strategic level of warfare, to a degree.

what I'm trying to say, in short, so as not to derail the thread, is that from a military perspective, Blitzkrieg is a tactical level method, not strategic.

#10 Androas

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 155 posts

Posted 23 April 2014 - 11:59 PM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 23 April 2014 - 11:51 PM, said:

To be honest, most people make the mistake of considering Blitzkrieg a strategic level method, when in fact it is a tactical method of operation. In the case of WWII, The Blitzkrieg was intended to hit one country at a time, to strike one front with overwhelming speed.

However, tacticians like Rommel and Guderian extrapolated it into the strategic level of warfare, to a degree.

what I'm trying to say, in short, so as not to derail the thread, is that from a military perspective, Blitzkrieg is a tactical level method, not strategic.



Nope,

"Blitzkrieg is a Military STRATEGY, which is supposed to avoid conflict turning into a total all out war, trying to reach this goal with fast and decisive operational victorys.
Early parts of this strategy allready showed up as early as WW1, with tank platoons, german "Schlachstaffeln" (aircrafts)
as early as 1916.

Blitzrkieg implies, a coordinated use of your different types of troops, Air, Sea and Land, to seize a fast victory, which catches your enemy off guard, and does not allow them to set up a propper defense, so to avoid trench warfare"


Blitzkrieg is a strategy, like it or not :(

Because it is a decision, you make on an Army wide Level, while "panzerblitz" for example is the tactical derivation out of it,
where you put specific units or unit compositions, to an use, within a certain battlefield.

Or in short:

If it is theory, its Strategy,
if its done by muscle power, its tactic.

And Blitzkrieg is a concept, nothing troops on the field can work with.


And just to add this:

Blitzkrieg (combination of Lightning and WAR) allready states, by the name, that it is a way to wage a WAR, and wars are never waged on a tactic :ph34r: allways on a strategy.


*edit* and, i hope Konivig does not mind, but i dare to say, this is hardly derailing the topic, as it is about tactic, and showing the differences between tactic and strategy, and discussing those, is, in my opppinion, actually only adding to the main topic, as in, helping people to understand those two basic concepts :D

Edited by Androas, 24 April 2014 - 12:09 AM.


#11 IraqiWalker

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 9,682 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 24 April 2014 - 12:56 AM

You mistake my use of tactical and strategic.

Those terms in military philosophy have very different meanings.

See a tactical theater is one maybe a few engagements, with maybe a few battalions.

A strategic engagement is country wide (if the country is big enough) if not continent wide. In the case of Europe in WWII, most of the invasions done by Germany were conducted on a tactical level. The war in Poland does not qualify to be considered a strategic level deployment.

In regards to that, the overall war in Europe is on a strategic level, while the engagements to occupy most of the countries (especially France, despite it's size) were done on a tactical level.


Basically Tactical and strategic are scales of the theater of war. They are also, not the same as tactics and strategies. Those are actually 4 different words.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 24 April 2014 - 12:57 AM.


#12 SnagaDance

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • Little Helper
  • 1,860 posts
  • LocationThe Netherlands

Posted 24 April 2014 - 02:07 AM

As Blitzkrieg had the objective of pushing through a front and subsequently envelop large amounts of enemy troops (and not their immediate and direct destruction) it might not be the correct term for what you describe. A 'Full assault against an enemy flank' might be more accurate. Though it doesn't have that nice ring to it.

Regardless, great effort Koniving!

#13 Thunder Child

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Ironclad
  • The Ironclad
  • 1,460 posts
  • LocationOn the other side of the rock now.

Posted 24 April 2014 - 02:11 AM

What I would like to know, Mister Koniving, is where I can find that game that a lot of your older videos show. I know it's closed Beta.... but what happened between there and here. CB looks like it had so much potential. The popcorn and rocking of ammo explosions, the sound fx, the knockdowns, the fact that an Atlas actually was HARD to KILL.... what happened?

#14 IraqiWalker

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 9,682 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 24 April 2014 - 02:42 AM

View PostSnagaDance, on 24 April 2014 - 02:07 AM, said:

As Blitzkrieg had the objective of pushing through a front and subsequently envelop large amounts of enemy troops (and not their immediate and direct destruction) it might not be the correct term for what you describe. A 'Full assault against an enemy flank' might be more accurate. Though it doesn't have that nice ring to it.

Regardless, great effort Koniving!

That's why this is more of a panzer blitz. Although even blitz as you defined it still applies here. You push quickly to overwhelm and envelop the enemy's 3 lances, and their destruction is what happens when they refuse to surrender after envelopment, and being severed from supply lines.

#15 Peter2k

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 2,032 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 24 April 2014 - 04:00 AM

View PostThunder Child, on 24 April 2014 - 02:11 AM, said:

What I would like to know, Mister Koniving, is where I can find that game that a lot of your older videos show. I know it's closed Beta.... but what happened between there and here. CB looks like it had so much potential. The popcorn and rocking of ammo explosions, the sound fx, the knockdowns, the fact that an Atlas actually was HARD to KILL.... what happened?


Too bad eh?
Ah yes those times.
The glow of an atlas eyes coming right at you, my god he's looking at you with those glowing eyes.
Looking out of the cockpit of my flame and seeing actual high res textures on my mechs nose, not this washed up stuff everywhere.
Snow used to glitter, everything looked better and it used to play better too.
But with every patch quality came down, and somehow performance too.
That's why so many founders had a stroke seeing where this games headed to, or at least seems to.
It seemed to had more potential back in the day than now.
It used to be better, even matches being batter balanced, u had ur stomps, but seemingly more good games too.

#16 Koniving

    Welcoming Committee

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Guide
  • The Guide
  • 23,384 posts

Posted 24 April 2014 - 10:06 AM

Tip number 2: My terms, not yours; taking control of the field.

"Taking control of a situation isn’t always about having the tactical advantage. If you can convince your enemy to want the very thing you need, it’s as good as calling the shots yourself. And if what you need is to relocate your enemies away from their advantageous position, you better steer the battle away from that direction and lure them as far as possible."

If the enemy has a superior position, then the most foolish course of action is to fight them on their terms. Lure and bait the enemies or make it clear that you will not fight on their terms and they will be forced to relocate. It requires a bit of patience, some coffee, and maybe a dashboard full of cheap magazines but at least you'll catch up on your celebrity gossip before you ultimately win on your own terms.

Instead of a video, for this I have a true story.
Spoiler


#17 Solis Obscuri

    Don't Care How I Want It Now!

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The DeathRain
  • The DeathRain
  • 4,751 posts
  • LocationPomme de Terre

Posted 24 April 2014 - 10:25 AM

View PostKoniving, on 24 April 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

Tip number 2: My terms, not yours; taking control of the field.

"Taking control of a situation isn’t always about having the tactical advantage. If you can convince your enemy to want the very thing you need, it’s as good as calling the shots yourself. And if what you need is to relocate your enemies away from their advantageous position, you better steer the battle away from that direction and lure them as far as possible."

If the enemy has a superior position, then the most foolish course of action is to fight them on their terms. Lure and bait the enemies or make it clear that you will not fight on their terms and they will be forced to relocate. It requires a bit of patience, some coffee, and maybe a dashboard full of cheap magazines but at least you'll catch up on your celebrity gossip before you ultimately win on your own terms.

Instead of a video, for this I have a true story.
Spoiler


This is a huge piece of good advice, and I see too many teams lose because they just mechanically troop out to the middle of the map without considering how the enemy is position themselves.

#18 L Y N X

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Nimble
  • The Nimble
  • 629 posts
  • LocationStrana Mechty

Posted 24 April 2014 - 10:26 AM

You folks just need to just Google "Tactic" and "Strategy" to understand how they are similar and different. I'm a graduate of a service academy and veteran (first Gulf War) aviator and you both have a piece, but are missing the big picture.

To the OP,

Dictating the location of the fight depends on a number of elements, not always within your control, but sometimes. Type of fight, 12v12, 1v1, cooperation of the team, speed of the team vs the other team, speed of your mech vs opponent, patience.

Study Art of War by Sun-Tzu and you gain addition insights to apply to your blitzkrieg studies. Attack strength to weakness, not weakness to strength. Make the enemy think you are where you are not. Create multiple axis of threat or fire onto the enemy. There are many more...

Edited by 7ynx, 24 April 2014 - 10:31 AM.


#19 Sarlic

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Hearing Impaired
  • Hearing Impaired
  • 4,519 posts
  • LocationEurope

Posted 24 April 2014 - 10:27 AM

Why don't i have you on my friends list? Good tips, ha.

Edited by Sarlic, 24 April 2014 - 10:40 AM.


#20 AlmightyAeng

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 3,905 posts

Posted 24 April 2014 - 10:41 AM

View PostSarlic, on 24 April 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

Why don't i have you on my friends list?


Because you are afraid to touch the sun!

My heart weeps at seeing the majority of posts here turned into an argument on the definition of 'tactic' vs. 'strategy.' If you Google them as one person suggested, you'll see them listed as synonyms, both with similar and dissimilar definitions depending on where you look. LIKE IT MATTERS.

Koniving illustrated a how-to for you and gave it a name. How about we discuss the success of using said tactic/strategy in game?

For one, I like it, and have found that having a Stalker or two be the tip of the spear is incredibly effective as long as no one stops moving. Those frontal hitboxes are FANTASTIC. If the 3rd or 4th mech behind said Stalker has ECM then it's even more effective...it's a tactic my 4-mans use a lot, and we try to get the PuG's to fall in line when we do so.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users