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Do You Think Large Lasers Should Have It's Own Weapon Model?

Weapons BattleMechs

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#1 Hans Von Lohman

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:35 PM

It is just one of those things that annoys me. I like the art for MWO quite a lot. However, there is on thing that I don't like.

To me a large laser should have a beefier gun barrel so you know it is a large laser akin to the looks you get when you install a PPC.

Yeah, I know I will live if this doesn't happen, but to me I just wish the look of a mech when I install a larger laser on it looks like it has a heavy weapon, like the Thunderbolt on it's right arm.

Agree?

Edited by Egomane, 24 April 2014 - 12:40 AM.


#2 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:38 PM

agree. very agree

#3 FupDup

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:39 PM

Speaking of which, it would be nice to see the color of your laser lens change based on the class of laser you have stuffed in their. Most mechs have either red for all lasers or green for all lasers. Homogeneity is boring. :\

#4 El Bandito

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:44 PM

View PostFupDup, on 23 April 2014 - 09:39 PM, said:

Speaking of which, it would be nice to see the color of your laser lens change based on the class of laser you have stuffed in their. Most mechs have either red for all lasers or green for all lasers. Homogeneity is boring. :\



Perhaps making Pulse and ER versions have slightly different looking lens as well?

#5 CycKath

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:44 PM

All weapon gauges should have different models IMO.

#6 Nyte Kitsune

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:45 PM

Sure I'll bite. And yes, I agree. I did have a chance to equip Large Lasers on that Freebie T-bolt from the win 5 matches, I mounted them in the shoulder slot where the 2 flamers were. Do you know what they looked like? Exactly the same a placing 2 Med Lasers in the same spot. Now, if you put 2 PPCs there you end up with 2 hefty barrels. I also mounted 2 Large lasers on my Atlas (Currently my only mech, sold the T-Bolt) and again, they really don't look any different than mediums. Sure the Smalls,Mediums and Larges are all the same type of energy weapon, but do the really need to look identical?

Ok.. If we get right down to it the same could be said for some of the other weapons, but a slight change in scale to indicate a larger weapon (or caliber in the case of autocannons) wouldn't hurt.

#7 FupDup

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:46 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 23 April 2014 - 09:44 PM, said:

Perhaps making Pulse and ER versions have slightly different looking lens as well?

ER can/should probably just have a slightly extended barrel. I dunno what to do with pulse, though.

#8 Ripper X

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:49 PM

Different weapons should have different appearances. Lasers all look too similar.

#9 Kenyon Burguess

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:51 PM

I would even settle for just a subtle shape change of the lens. square-circle-hexagon-triangle?

#10 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 09:53 PM

View PostFupDup, on 23 April 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

ER can/should probably just have a slightly extended barrel. I dunno what to do with pulse, though.

stubbier, wider focal lense. Kind alike a Snub nosed sub gun.

#11 Turist0AT

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 10:09 PM

Yes please!

#12 Khobai

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 10:26 PM

Quote

Speaking of which, it would be nice to see the color of your laser lens change based on the class of laser you have stuffed in their. Most mechs have either red for all lasers or green for all lasers. Homogeneity is boring. :\


Yes. At the very least, ER large lasers and regular large lasers need different color beams

ER lasers should be purple IMO. since a longer range laser would have to have higher energy, its color would be darker in the spectrum.

Edited by Khobai, 23 April 2014 - 10:30 PM.


#13 Golrar

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 10:54 PM

OK, I'll be the voice of science here: you don't need a barrel for any laser. I'd prefer to see hoses sticking out the side of arm mounted lasers. And the focal lens doesn't always have to be bigger. What makes a laser beefier is the color spectrum. Further along the spectrum, longer the distance and power. A larger focal lens would just make the beam broader, and thus making it less powerful as it would be diffused across a larger area. Now if ER lasers did more damage, I would agree with the purple. But perhaps the ER version should have a tighter beam and a little darker? You are gaining distance while keeping power, so maybe a slight violet tinge to the blue.

Yes, I know this is a game, but a game based off of some distant future science, that still lives within our laws of physics.

#14 SweetJackal

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 10:59 PM

Frankly I'd settle with not having every laser put into most mechs being an ugly box casing. The Hunchback has some beautiful arm mounted lasers that can be used.

Edited by SuckyJack, 23 April 2014 - 10:59 PM.


#15 Karl Streiger

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 10:59 PM

Larger barrel for my impotent Thunderbolt? Yes yes yes

#16 Zervziel

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 11:09 PM

K2 has a unique model for large lasers I think. But yeah, a larger approrpiately colored lens would be nice.

#17 A Man In A Can

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 11:50 PM

At some point certainly this would be nice polish. But it's not mission critical. Good suggestion though!

#18 Hans Von Lohman

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 12:26 AM

Well, I just think it looks weird to have large lasers on mechs like the Blackjack and all you have are little nubs. I miss having a gun barrel.

I certainly am not looking forward to seeing what they do to the Centurion AL, which I have with a Large Laser in the arm as well. I still want to see it as a gun arm.

#19 AlexEss

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 12:59 AM

Sure, why not... But i would put it after the following items.

New mechs, new maps, complete the art pass on old non-modular mechs, re-tweak of some old maps, the completeion of UI 2.0, tweaking to weapon size on some mechs. So it would not be anything i´d worry about

View PostHans Von Lohman, on 24 April 2014 - 12:26 AM, said:

I certainly am not looking forward to seeing what they do to the Centurion AL, which I have with a Large Laser in the arm as well. I still want to see it as a gun arm.


It will most likley look like any other of the mechs that have laser "arms" ei one laser you get one "barrel" and two you get two. Unless they go the Orion route and just switch the lenses that are there now for the new style.

Edited by AlexEss, 24 April 2014 - 01:02 AM.


#20 Gejaheline

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 05:20 AM

View PostGolrar, on 23 April 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

OK, I'll be the voice of science here: you don't need a barrel for any laser. I'd prefer to see hoses sticking out the side of arm mounted lasers. And the focal lens doesn't always have to be bigger. What makes a laser beefier is the color spectrum. Further along the spectrum, longer the distance and power. A larger focal lens would just make the beam broader, and thus making it less powerful as it would be diffused across a larger area. Now if ER lasers did more damage, I would agree with the purple. But perhaps the ER version should have a tighter beam and a little darker? You are gaining distance while keeping power, so maybe a slight violet tinge to the blue.


Be careful to check your facts.

A wider lens or mirror on your laser will allow you to improve your damage output, and it can also help to increase effective range.
For a given surface area of lens/mirror you can only pour in a certain amount of energy before it overheats and stops working, because the optics aren't 100% efficient at transmitting light. This means you can't just double the power you're putting into the laser to get twice the firepower because it'll melt.
However, because lasers fire coherent light (or other forms of radiation), you can bend them, split them, and focus them with lenses and mirrors just like a camera does. If you spread the beam out, there's the same amount of energy in total but it's spread over a wider area, which means there's less energy hitting the optics per unit area, so it's cooler.
Or, if you're interested in damage, it means you can put more energy through the optics before they melt.

However, just because you've made the beam path inside the laser wider doesn't mean you're diffusing that beam across the target! We just used lenses to spread the beam out, so why can't we use them to focus the beam in again? At the business end of the weapon you'd still have it spread out, so your main lens is fine, but if you focus the beam down to a tiny point at the target's end you have all the energy concentrated into a small area and it slices through. Each part of your laser lens is effectively "focus firing" at a single point on the target.

Bigger lenses also increase your effective range (i.e. at what ranges you can focus your beam, since lasers are line-of-sight range) for the same reasons that big camera lenses can focus on more distant objects.

Increasing the frequency of the beam (i.e. changing the frequency towards the blue/ultraviolet end of the spectrum) would increase your ability to focus on distant targets, but at your average Battletech laser combat range I don't think it would be much of a difference relative to just building a larger lens.

If Battletech and MWO had 'realistic' laser designs they'd all look like they have huge satellite dishes and dinner-plate-size lenses all over them, with very short barrel lengths because laser beams can be reflected around however you like unlike bullets.

Back vaguely on-topic:
Based on both the above and common sense, I'd say accurate models of the different sizes of laser would indeed be different sizes, probably more width-wise than length-wise, and it would make sense aesthetically (pretty models!), technically (bigger lasers are physically bigger), and tactically (I can look at a 'mech and see it's got large lasers fitted on its arms but not its torso).

Presumably, since ER large lasers output the same amount of damage as a normal large laser, they simply have bigger optics which lets them focus more accurately at a distance whilst applying the same amount of energy on the target, so they'd follow the logical progression of being bigger than large lasers. The extra heat generation is produced by magic.

As a final note:

View PostGolrar, on 23 April 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

Yes, I know this is a game, but a game based off of some distant future science, that still lives within our laws of physics.

It really doesn't. In the Battletech universe, the laws of physics magically change when you give your vehicles legs and arms to make them much tougher than conventional vehicles using the same technology. Equipment gets larger when you reduce its weight. Weapons which should be able to reach into orbit have trouble hitting targets a hundred metres away. Battletech is designed as a wargame first and foremost; the game's physics and lore have to ensure that it's balanced enough to be playable as such.

TL;DR: Yes, please, lasers should have different models because it's pretty and physics says so.





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